Perhaps it's that time to remove the MPG Trail Lockout Timers?  Personally since many years passed after the Omens of War expansion I suggest it's time we do due to the fact that hardly any of the loot is worth getting these days.  The only thing worth doing the trails is most likely is maxing out the Trails of the Mata Manua AA ability (since it extends the max cap of all resist, thorugh I don't know if it dose with Corrupt however) as well as the occional Greater and Glowing Runes for those who don't like to do trade skills and also the Cleric Epic 2.0 piece as well. 

The way I think about it, I say make the Greater Runes and the Glowing Runes tradeable as well if possible since it has been years later on rather then leaving them as no-trades enspecially nowdays, this is what I suggest.

Wyvernwill wrote:

Ok, considering that there's 20 ranks of +5 all resists AAs... where is it that a newly created character is needing immediately that +50 from MPG trials?  Where are the posts regarding DoN AAs... afterall, those have some of the same restrictions including raid fights that were high end at the time... yet they pose a more powerful gain than +50 resists... especially in the current raid scene.

Why do I say the 'current' raid scene?  Because most AEs that devs want landing target Corruption, not the old five.  I'd love to see the profile of anyone with a 500+ Corruption resist... would be great information to have.

MPG trials are hardly any more required than all five of the DoN AAs... and arguably has less of an impact than any of the DoN AAs in current EQ.

There is also a major fundamental difference between raid powersources (and the flags required) and MPG group trial AAs.  Key difference... All gear to date, from TBS forward, has Infusible on it.  Unlike gear, however, the only place to get powersources (especially raid) are through killing bosses in Solteris for the proper flags (as raid were useless, even tradeskilled, without the flags).  MPG group trials are hardly a requirement of EQ... mostly due to a very poor working in the resist system, as well as the Dev Easy Mode bypass of just using Corruption when they want things to land.  (Which is not even close to maxable, nor affected by MPG group trials.)

I find it a waste, however, to go back and 'fix' something that's not broken when there are many things broken in both the current group and raid scenes, as well as with many classes.  Especially since people only really care about using the content once to their benefit, then never again.

You should just stop there.  You're only showing your lack of understanding of the resist system.

If you think that +50 resist cap has no real benefit, then you're either 1) NOT raiding current content, or 2) raiding current content and are embarassing yourself.  Also, you'll notice that you can plow through all the DON AA's in a little less than a day (including all the raids) with 6 people.  There are NO other tasks in EQ that have a global task restriction like this (which is why they never repeated it).

700 vs 675 vs 650 resist cap is not a theoretical benefit, it's tangible, substantial, and measurable.

As for the comments regarding changing vs. not changing lockouts, they have changed lockouts on older raid content more than once, whether it was reductions from 7 days to 5 days, or 7 days to 3 day respawns (Luclin/POP anyone?).

Considering that MPG group trials are essentially trivial content and 1-time run-throughs, all you achieve by forcing a 2 hour lockout of all the trials is annoying the crap out of those of us who go back and help newer guild members who are looking to complete these.

Maybe you're like me and did all the MPG trials when they were current content (and challenging)... that doesn't mean that the argument for reducing or removing the global trial lockouts make any less sense.

Takes alot of Dev time?  That's a crock.  Changing the global lockout timers on 5 events to 30 mins (leaving the 5 day repeat timers) is a significant diversion of Dev resources?  Who are you kidding?

Asking people to try to remember which trials they've done (with no way to check), then find out in 2 hour increments through trial and error is the definition of stupidity.

Change them to 30 mins.  It's not going to break the game.

LaotzuQigong - 85 Transcendent

Sol Invictus - The Tribunal

I skipped pages 3-6 so if I repeat anything someone else has said... please forgive me.

I also support removing the MPG trial lockout timers.  They currently act as an unneccessary barrier to a goal that is otherwise easily achievable and arguably an expected accomplishment.  Since OoW is obsolete and gets skipped over by many new characters as far as progression is concerned, but the resist increase is still desirable if not expected... the game should not impose an undue burden on completion.  The removal of the character flag requirement for Anguish only strengthens the argument that the lockout timers be removed.

I think the lockout timers act as a disincentive to new players/toons that cannot box or commit the extraneous time to doing one trial and coming back 2 (3?) hours later... it's just silly and only operates currently IMHO to oversight by game development.

This fix is definately overdue.

why the hell is anyone here comparing GROUP missions to old RAID mobs. Comparing the spawn rate of AoW to the lockout on the MPG group trials is about the sillist thing I have ever heard. Being locked out from doing the other group trials made no sense then, it makes no sense now. The only arguement that holds any water about not changing the 2 hour lockout on other group MPG trials is that the devs have other things to do. But even that arguement isn't perfect. I mean how long can it take to remove a lockout or reduce a lockout?

LaotzuQigong wrote:

Asking people to try to remember which trials they've done (with no way to check), then find out in 2 hour increments through trial and error is the definition of stupidity.

QFT

I just did all six trials this weekend for one of my alts.   The toon already had 2 ranks of the AA (gained literally years ago) and I had no idea which 2 trials were completed.   My only options was to just do them all again.   Naturally, it took me six trials to move from 2/6 up to 6/6 simply due to trial and error selection.

I finished all 6 trials recently. I only needed 3, but as was so long ago I had no clue (as do many) what I was missing, so redid them all because as luck had it, we chose poorly and needed to do them all.

The lock out timers need to go. I am now done with all 6, and the wait doesn't do a thing to enhance the enjoyment of the game, it doesn't do a thing to gear anyone up, when all the drops we had rotted. We did it for the resists as you can guess. So as I did it the 'long' way, I can say I hope no one else has to endure the lockouts. They are pointless.

Those in favor of keeping the lockouts because I had to do it that way, need to get over it. Back then it was current content, the items wanted by people, now it is rot gear. The trials were no challenge at this stage of the game and we were all waiting and waiting for the next wave to come before some fell asleep. It is now more a case of over coming boredom then 'defeating' the trial.  

Some of the comments remind me of the posts when OOC regen was being discussed how it would ruin the game, how some wanted an option to turn it off. That the game was built around medding as it was a needed function. I thought of that because this reminds me of that. You have it to easy, you need to do it our way, the way we did it. Whatever, even if your level 65 and doing the trials where it would be a challege, and you went trial to trial to trail for all 6, it will not cause massive gear inflation to the server. It is no drop, and if one item is of use to someone, great, congrats, but odds are good they will have better from the bazaar, and if not, great for them. I hope they can use some of it. Remember they are locked out of repeating those trials, but they should be able to immediately start clearing to the next.

Sorry to those that can't seem to remember that EQ is still a game, and road blocks like a 2 hour timeout on an event you haven't even done because you did something else makes no sense at all. You didn't tough that trial, sure if you lose one a lockout can be 2 hours, no one would object to that, but something you didn't even attempt locked out because you did something else is pointless.

Remove the linkage between trials. 2 hour lockout on a fail is fine, you can do another as it resets. Win and a 4-5 day lockout is fine, doubt any will go back but to help others.

Calebe

I asked about a month ago about removing lockout timers, and dev answer is no, sorry

mite wrote:

Figured I would try and knock out these trials with my box group. Started with the Trial of Subversion. Now, my box group only has priest type of chest opening ability, so I knew this particular trial would be the most challenging for me.

I had bad luck in that none of the initial chests were of the "cursed" type, but I gave it my best shot and failed with 160 of 300 needed points. As I was porting out of the instance I was thinking of how to alter my strategy for the next run, and hoping for better luck with the initial set of chests.

I was literally floored when I saw that not only was I locked out from retrying the Trial of Subversion for 2 hours, I was also locked out of trying any of the other MPG group trials for 2 hours. I was shaking my head in disbelief. On a failure of a mission with a total running time of about 10 minutes, I am being locked out of retrying for 2 hours? That is ridiculous.

You can try and spin this any way you like, but stuff like this is exactly why WoW has 11 million subscribers and EQ is down to about 100K subscribers.

Mite

I believe you can break (attack) the chests that are not unlockable by priests so they'll respawn.

Tips from 4 years ago: http://crucible.samanna.net/viewtop....php?f=12&t=188

Wyvernwill wrote:

Find something else to do for an hour and a half, come back and go to the next.

Thats the issue though. 90 min is not enough time to do anything in EQ really.

Option 1: Your group could gate out meet back up, run to another zone, do a camp check, figure out what camps are open, moce to camp, and kill afew mobs, but then it would be time to start moving back to MPG and heading to projection. So you spent 90 min getting pretty much NOTHING done.

Option 2: Go ahead and move to the next Projection and sit idly doing nothing, for 90 min but by the time the lockout is cleared you will have people in the group perma-afk having lost track of time watching tv or whatever.

Option 3: Do 1 trial per day and PRAY you can fine people willing to do it each day.

Bottom line is yes there are option but they all suck. Trying to pick the best option is like trying to pick up the "clean end" of a turd.

Now that being said I have no problem with the lockout on a failed trial locking out that trial for 1-3 hours or winning a trial locking out THAT trial for 3 days. However winning 1 trial locking out all 6 trials for 2 hours is stupid.

Tadenea wrote:

I asked about a month ago about removing lockout timers, and dev answer is no, sorry

That's typical of EQ's neglect. The devs see nothing back beyond the most recent expansion. So everything older than SOD is pretty much left to neglect decay, or diminished value anyway since nothing can decay in the game except player and mob corpses.

The lack of reading comprehension on this thread was seriously sad. The OP specifically said he wanted it for the resists, and all people went on about for far too long was the loot. It finally got back on topic of resists after several pages.

And for the sake of debate, I know of at least one guild on my server that gives a DKP bonus for doing all the trials and maxing your resists. So it's a valid thing to do.

I've seen dev allude to the fact that 2 resist = 1% chance to resist, so the 50 resist cap granted by MPG is equivalent of having 25% more chance to resist anything that could be resisted in the first place.  I'm going to assume that hitting max resist is quite trivial due to the availability of Pure Elemental/Light energeians if you're raiding either SoF or SoD.

Now it's true there are some zones that feature unresistable AEs, corruption-based AEs, or stuff that saves at MR-1000 where having extra resist cap wouldn't help you.  But I cannot think of an expansion where resists are completely useless.

If the Devs are not going to change spawnrates, and lock out timers etc. in old expansions, then could they at least note the following.  For the majority of its life an expansion is not the last expansion in the game: it simply forms part of a progression. 

So the Devs have got to either design content with the longer term in mind, or else be prepared to go back and change spawnrates, drop tables, lockout tables etc. on content that was 'endgame' for one short period of time.

These should be unlocked, their usefulness as a flagging aspect of the game has been removed by the opening of anguish to any level 68 or higher character. The linked timers I could understand when people were farming MPG trials for loot, but now they're just a irritation. At the very least unlinking the trials would be the correct thing to do.

Same goes for the PoR expansion, they give everyone the Harmonic Dissonance AA, and access to Deathknell, yet to get into Razorthorne, Tower of Sullon Zek, you still need to do the saga skin series of quests. Unlocking the endgame content of an expansion, and leaving the rest of the content locked, or on oddball timers doesn't make sense.

Whats next? Unlock Vishmatar to everyone, but still require a person finished tier3 DoN to request Yar'lir?

Most older expansions loot have been made useless by first the Defiant visible gear, and even more so now with the Defiant non visible gear. Most of TSS's gear is outdated when compared to the loot that drops in Dragonscale Hills at a 65 req, while the loot in TSS closest to it has a 75 req. Maybe lowering the reqired level on gear in expansions, instead of outdating it completely would make these zones viable again. Defiant gear makes all the older expansions more like a stroll down memory lane, than a place to work content and gear yourself at lower levels.

Either way, it's not just the MPG trials, but all the older expansions of the game that need to be retuned. I'm guessing with the next expansion, and considering the changes to MMM trash and the Crystalos Primaridescent Essences in tonite's patch, they'll unlock Solteris and Crystalos, but leave MMM a keyed raid zone.

neomongo wrote:

i highly doubt it is a 2 to 1 ratio . it might be something like that but 2 to 1 would mean you resist 90% of the spells in game.

Most spells you care about in a raid setting have a very considerable negative resist check.  Also, most mobs you care about in current content are higher level than you also makes it easier for them to land spells on you.  Spells also resist different depending on their type.  For example you'll never be rooted by a mob casting Greater Immobilize with 300 MR, but a cleric mob casting Judgment can sometimes hit you for 15 damage.  Still, it's a good enough approximation as long as you're not in the 95%+ range, and it's rare to be in that range against any current content anyway.

I kind of agree with this. Why keep the same rules for raids that are old?? Their rewards suck compared to what they amounted to years ago. To compensate, reduce the lockout timer. This is not brain science. Maybe they don't do it because it would take too long to review all of the old raids and to formulate revised lockout timers.

Naudanyas wrote:

I kind of agree with this. Why keep the same rules for raids that are old?? Their rewards suck compared to what they amounted to years ago. To compensate, reduce the lockout timer. This is not brain science. Maybe they don't do it because it would take too long to review all of the old raids and to formulate revised lockout timers.

Once again this is not about RAIDS. It is about group tasks.