Farming?
A totally non combat tradeskill since I know that sometimes combat all the time can get a little tedious. Current tradeskills force you into combat for plat or ingredients and there is little that you can do to get away from it. There have been a number of times that I have not wanted to log in because I'm tired of the same routine - pull, bash, loot, pull, bash, loot and so on, there are times when I would like to log in and do something different for a change. I'd still like to talk to my freinds but be able to do something constructive that doesn't involve combat.
The Concept:
Farmers buy seeds and some basic equipment from a Farm Supplies NPC and plant them to grow vegetables to start and gradually incresase as thier skill increases to finally grow alchemy ingredients. Failure/sucess is rated on the number of plants that grow from a given number of seeds. Skill is rated on how well the plot is tended, if you've got a scarecrow, a plough and other things. This could be integrated with Tinkering for items like ploughs and such, Blacksmithing for rakes and shovels, Alchemy for seeds and Brewing for certain liquids required to grow certain things.
Planting Ingredients: Seeds, liquids to water them, equipment to plant them.Harvesting ingredients: Designated plant and equipment like a sickle to harvest.
Better equipment can give bonuses to yield, how many plants can be put in one spot, how well/fast they grow and so on.
This would still require an investment of plat for liquids and/or working together with a Shaman with Alchemy skills for the seeds and Brewer for liquids. Buying of equipment and such would also require an investment but ultimately, a good farmer would see a return by selling Alchemy ingredients in the Bazaar. Maybe even a small investment and rent for a secure plot which is then designated for that player meaning others cannot loot it. Farmers can use unowned plots but would not have rights to stop others harvesting it, they cannot use plots owned by others. Farmers could also increase to two plots when they reach 100, 3 when they reach 200 and finally 4 when they reach 300 and above.
Plots that have not had the rent paid for a month are open to other players to harvest, this allows for players who are on holiday and cannot log in or have no internet access for some other reason. If the player comes back within the month and pays the rent the plot continues to be owned by them, if not, it becomes a wild plot that anyone can harvest.
Shaman ingredients: Combine 1 ingredints with 1 seed inducer to get 1 seeds of that ingredient - Trivial depends on ingredient, seed inducer cost depends on ingredient.
Harvest: Poor 2 for 1 on success, Good 3 for 1 on success and Excellent 4 for 1 on success. These depend on proper tending, equipment and skill. Value is offset by cost of seed inducer but must produce no loss on Poor and a reasonable profit margin for Good results, the best profit coming from anyone who can get Excellent results although this does not necessarily mean they have to be a skill of 300+, simply that they have done a really good job of tending and have good equipment.
Any Opinions?
Edit: Correction on Harvest Yield.
Like old homesteads you could go to an old zone and stake and improve free wild land build you a cabin, file your homestead, start paying taxes. Protect it against wondering mobs.
LOL
Gendor wrote:
Like old homesteads you could go to an old zone and stake and improve free wild land build you a cabin, file your homestead, start paying taxes. Protect it against wondering mobs.LOL
Please, no taxes. i'm broke enough as it is. . .
But i like the idea, Tryst. It sounds like something I would do.
Sounds like it would take a lot of dev time though.
Letarus wrote:
/agree and i rather them spend time making the tradeskills that all of us have at 300 actually useful first before implenting another tradeskill that wont make any money.
SOE allready has Vanguard and Free Realms where you can 'Farm' or level up without combat.
Tryst wrote:
I'd still like to talk to my freinds but be able to do something constructive that doesn't involve combat.
About the farming idea - I'm pretty neutral.
About this sentence, depending upon what you would consider "constructive", you can do this in the game. There are plenty of quests that require no combat at all - two of my favorite from a lore / NPC dialog standpoint are the Queynos tax collection quests and the Cabalis - get the legionaires to stop drinking quest.
They offer little in terms of rewards, but are hilarious in terms of NPC dialogs and a little lore.
There is the Fisherman's Companion quest (who doesn't want a clickie item that summons a fishing pole that can summon ale?).
Those are just 3 that I liked and I found them a fun use of my time.
You can try the "buy/sell" game in the bazaar - folks have made millions of plat without ever killing a single mob this way - and it allows you to socialize with friends online and can increase your bank account.
You can go explore every zone on a continent - see if you can do it without getting aggro.
You can host an event or two:
Point is, there is as much to this game outside of combat as your interest allows. Just need to be a bit more creative in your approach and don't look to the game to provide you with your fin, use the game as a setting for you to create some fun.
Runescape anyone? I loved farming in that game. first game ive ever played with the concept
Skrax_Swifttail wrote:
The quests you mention can't always be done over and over. Exploring won't make plat for you. The bazaar game is boring, you do absolutely nothing but stand there hoping someone is going to buy your stuff.
Although I'd like to see the existing tradeskills revamped into something useful, all of them are based around combat for ingredients or even just the plat to buy them. Unless SOE revamped them so that NPC's sell all the ingredients, albeit very expensive, it's forcing players back into combat which is what they are trying to get away from. Like all tradeskills, Farming would require an initial outlay for equipment, ingredients and skilling but eventually, it becomes an economically viable way to make plat.
Most tradeskills only have maybe one or two items that are any real value to others. More useful items need to be introduced to make the tradeskills worthwhile, it's the only way they can be improved on. Weapons and armor for Blacksmithing that are a major improvement on dropped items, more items similar to the Misty Thicket for Baking with stats more suited to specific classes. Similarly other tradeskills need to have more items that are better than we can either buy from NPC's or obtain via drops.
I was trying to introduce an idea that has no ties to combat at all. Interactive in the way that other skills and players may be needed, creating a market for equipment, seeds and liquids but allows the player a complete break from combat but with the ability to make plat at the same time.
This not only ties in with Alchemy but could also allow a farmer to cultivate some strains of yeast for Brewing. Skins of some fruit and berries has yeast growing on them, this could be cultivated by a skilled farmer who is growing the friuts. Farmers could also grow wood for Fletching and in preparing the ground for seeds, may also randomly find clay for Pottery if their Pottery skill is high enough to identify the type of clay it is.
What I've suggested is a raw idea to be built on, others could improve on it, refine it and make it viable.
Skrax_Swifttail wrote:About this sentence, depending upon what you would consider "constructive", you can do this in the game. There are plenty of quests that require no combat at all - two of my favorite from a lore / NPC dialog standpoint are the Queynos tax collection quests and the Cabalis - get the legionaires to stop drinking quest.The quests you mention can't always be done over and over. Exploring won't make plat for you. The bazaar game is boring, you do absolutely nothing but stand there hoping someone is going to buy your stuff.Although I'd like to see the existing tradeskills revamped into something useful, all of them are based around combat for ingredients or even just the plat to buy them. Unless SOE revamped them so that NPC's sell all the ingredients, albeit very expensive, it's forcing players back into combat which is what they are trying to get away from. Like all tradeskills, Farming would require an initial outlay for equipment, ingredients and skilling but eventually, it becomes an economically viable way to make plat.Most tradeskills only have maybe one or two items that are any real value to others. More useful items need to be introduced to make the tradeskills worthwhile, it's the only way they can be improved on. Weapons and armor for Blacksmithing that are a major improvement on dropped items, more items similar to the Misty Thicket for Baking with stats more suited to specific classes. Similarly other tradeskills need to have more items that are better than we can either buy from NPC's or obtain via drops.I was trying to introduce an idea that has no ties to combat at all. Interactive in the way that other skills and players may be needed, creating a market for equipment, seeds and liquids but allows the player a complete break from combat but with the ability to make plat at the same time.This not only ties in with Alchemy but could also allow a farmer to cultivate some strains of yeast for Brewing. Skins of some fruit and berries has yeast growing on them, this could be cultivated by a skilled farmer who is growing the friuts. Farmers could also grow wood for Fletching and in preparing the ground for seeds, may also randomly find clay for Pottery if their Pottery skill is high enough to identify the type of clay it is.What I've suggested is a raw idea to be built on, others could improve on it, refine it and make it viable.
sorry to tell you but that is way more work then SoE will EVER attempt to do to implement a new tradeskill. i wouldnt mind a new tradeskill but SoE needs to find a way to be able to raise skill overs 322 i think it was before they need to work on new tradeskills. and really how would you farm? you gonna click on a rake every 5 mins or click on a watering pot every 5 mins while just sitting there doing nothing? 99% of the people on EQ rather would be hunting items or xp rather then sitting on their butts clicking a button every 5 seconds.
True, but I just mentioned 3 out of the thousands of quests out there. While you probably do not want to do any one of them over and over, doing 1000 different quests could easily occupy you for over year alone.
The bazaar game is a bit different than what you are saying. You are talking about passive selling (that isn't the bazaar game). Try cornering the market on something, actively pitching your wares and letting folks in the bazaar know you would be willing to trade/haggle, take some time to learn the current hot sellers and try to haggle with other folks in the bazaar, learn to buy and sell. Point is, if you realize that the game mechanics work linearly while players have depth, you can creatively come up with a way to do something "boring" and make it fun.
The only way tradeskills in EQ can be "economically viable" is in producing something that players would be willing to purchase. The system should never allow folks to make anything that sells to a merchant for prophet.
Now while TSes are hardly the economical boon they were 2 or 3 expansions ago, there are still TS items that do sell well (Tribute items like PoP Bows for example). But yes, all TS items require ingredients and ingreadients require 1 of 2 things - store bought components or mob dropped components. And since plat only comes from mobs, quests, or other players, you are limited in how you get money.
More useful items need to be introduced to make the tradeskills worthwhile, it's the only way they can be improved on. Weapons and armor for Blacksmithing that are a major improvement on dropped items, more items similar to the Misty Thicket for Baking with stats more suited to specific classes. Similarly other tradeskills need to have more items that are better than we can either buy from NPC's or obtain via drops.
No arguements that more useful items would be worthwhile, but the ideology for tradeskills in EQ isn't that Tradeskills are a perferred way to get gear, it is that TS gear is a suppliment until you get a good drop for that slot. In fact it has been stated that when creating TS items, the devs look at similar dropped items and usually make the TS item a little lower in stats, but give them "versitility".
You put Fero or Cleave into a slot that normally doesn't have that. Your item will fit in different slots, extending its life. Your item has more Augment Slots allowing you to customize your item to be a bit better in whatever area when compared to an "equal" dropped item. And so on.
Suggesting ideas is never a bad thing, but you do need to be prepared for the public remarks (good or bad). The problem with what you are suggesting is - it has no current home in the EQ system. It would be a completely new set of code that may or may not work with existing code.
You would need an instance for your "plot of land" or a very localized spot, but then everyone would have the same spot. There is no "personal property" in EQ. No way to seperate areas for people other than by an "instance".
Not like you could keep folks from running mobs "over your farm and ruining your crop". How do you mimic taking care of your plot? You going to water it twice a day (A day in eq is like an hour real time). A month = 30 hours. You logging in once or twice every hour to "farm"? If you go away for the weekend and miss paying your monthly fee you willing to lose your "homestead" to someone else?
The points I gave in my original response were that you can do more than just "pull, bash, loot, pull, bash, loot and so on". It all depends upon what you want. If you just want to have fun, then see if you can organize a Drunken Freeport to Qeynos run. All it takes are two people, but is more fun with 20.
If you want specific loot, then you are locked into how that loot is obtained.
If you want to introduce a concept, realize the limitations of the game in its current state.
Don't say there isn't anything to do in the game beyond kill. If you are creative enough you can have a lot of fun, and never hit attack once.
Thulack wrote:
I did mention it was a raw idea. True that button clicking every 5 seconds is probably more boring than constant combat but how do other games implement it? There is farming in other games as some here have mentioned, it must have a workable method that can be refined to operate under the confines of EQ's code.
As for profitability, It makes sense that any TS should ultimately be profitable or what is the purpose of spending inordinate amounts of plat skilling them up? Trade to NPC vendors should be extremely marginal and not really worthwhile while trade to other players should reap the better profits. If certain ingredients could be farmed that would normally only drop from mobs, it would create a player market economy while a NPC buys it only at the current rate which, given the time invested in growing it and plat spent skilling up to grow it, isn't worth the effort. I wouldn't spend 5K bucks in real life to train to make something that's only going to give me two bucks every six months back.
I must really disagree with SOE on not using tradeskills to ultimately create something better than dropped items. A master craftsman should be able to craft far better items than could be seen lying around on mobs or a TS isn't worth training. Why buy a common Staff from a tradesman when a Stick of Fury is far better and sold by the dozen in the Bazaar? The same applies to armor, spells and a whole lot more. Even if it meant a mix of other trades to ultimately complete an item to it's full potential, we already have cost and rarity of items to avoid everyone having it.
With a bit of effort, TS's could be made into something that is useful in the game rather than just something to pass the time.
Thulack wrote:sorry to tell you but that is way more work then SoE will EVER attempt to do to implement a new tradeskill. i wouldnt mind a new tradeskill but SoE needs to find a way to be able to raise skill overs 322 i think it was before they need to work on new tradeskills. and really how would you farm? you gonna click on a rake every 5 mins or click on a watering pot every 5 mins while just sitting there doing nothing? 99% of the people on EQ rather would be hunting items or xp rather then sitting on their butts clicking a button every 5 seconds.I did mention it was a raw idea. True that button clicking every 5 seconds is probably more boring than constant combat but how do other games implement it? There is farming in other games as some here have mentioned, it must have a workable method that can be refined to operate under the confines of EQ's code.As for profitability, It makes sense that any TS should ultimately be profitable or what is the purpose of spending inordinate amounts of plat skilling them up? Trade to NPC vendors should be extremely marginal and not really worthwhile while trade to other players should reap the better profits. If certain ingredients could be farmed that would normally only drop from mobs, it would create a player market economy while a NPC buys it only at the current rate which, given the time invested in growing it and plat spent skilling up to grow it, isn't worth the effort. I wouldn't spend 5K bucks in real life to train to make something that's only going to give me two bucks every six months back.I must really disagree with SOE on not using tradeskills to ultimately create something better than dropped items. A master craftsman should be able to craft far better items than could be seen lying around on mobs or a TS isn't worth training. Why buy a common Staff from a tradesman when a Stick of Fury is far better and sold by the dozen in the Bazaar? The same applies to armor, spells and a whole lot more. Even if it meant a mix of other trades to ultimately complete an item to it's full potential, we already have cost and rarity of items to avoid everyone having it.With a bit of effort, TS's could be made into something that is useful in the game rather than just something to pass the time.
Most MMORPG were made way after EQ and use different coding and engines to run the system. Just because something works well in say WoW doesnt meet it would be able to be converted to EQ. and your thinking on tradeskill items being better then dropped items is the complete opposite of SoE thinking and it will never change. They thought about changing it with cultural armor but you still needed drops from raids to make it better then droppable stuff so it didnt work out well. People anymore work on tradeskills cause they get bored with hunting. Anyone who thinks that they are gonna make loads of plat from tradeskills these days is nuts unless you make tons of crap and leave trader up 24/7 and undercut all the undercutters constantly. In my opinion tradeskills are not worth it anymore in EQ other then to kill time if you dont wanna grind xp.
