Was having a discussion about SoD runes and ranger/beastlord heals. We have had so much gear inflation the last two expansions that max hitpoints are just out of control. Both of these classes easily buff to well beyond 30k hp in just group gear yet our base heal is still below 2k with even rk3?
This is one of things that other classes point to as utility for both these class but don't seem to understand how freaking bad they are now.
Can we get these upped to something reasonable?
Karthos wrote:
Was having a discussion about SoD runes and ranger/beastlord heals. We have had so much gear inflation the last two expansions that max hitpoints are just out of control. Both of these classes easily buff to well beyond 30k hp in just group gear yet our base heal is still below 2k with even rk3?This is one of things that other classes point to as utility for both these class but don't seem to understand how freaking bad they are now.Can we get these upped to something reasonable?
Are you not happy with your significant DPS that you wantr to be clerics too?
There are lots of other classes that would love what you have without having both.
Klonn_Darkbane wrote:
Karthos wrote:Was having a discussion about SoD runes and ranger/beastlord heals. We have had so much gear inflation the last two expansions that max hitpoints are just out of control. Both of these classes easily buff to well beyond 30k hp in just group gear yet our base heal is still below 2k with even rk3?This is one of things that other classes point to as utility for both these class but don't seem to understand how freaking bad they are now.Can we get these upped to something reasonable?Are you not happy with your significant DPS that you wantr to be clerics too?There are lots of other classes that would love what you have without having both.
I'm asking for a boost to make up for the inflation in gear and I don't know if you've heard but ranger dps has been seriously nerfed recently. In melee there is no way I can keep up with the monks that I raid with.
Uh, no. However if it gets the standard increase next expansion, while gear inflation rises as it has been we'll be non crit healing for about 2% health or close to it, which means our heals will once again we utterly worthless. We want them to keep up with hp inflation so we don't have another worthless spell.
I love you too Karthos. Sorry you cant keep up with my DPS on raids, but I am pure melee and you are hybrid.
XmortavianX wrote:
I hope they give you a heal spell next expansion. But it has to be worthless like ours, then we can also hold it against you even though it's incredibly retarded to hold something that benefits you against someone else.
Yeah, I want bigger heals instead of more DPS! I'd type more but this ether I've been inhaling is making me woozy.
Dysentery wrote:
Karthos wrote:Was having a discussion about SoD runes and ranger/beastlord heals. We have had so much gear inflation the last two expansions that max hitpoints are just out of control. Both of these classes easily buff to well beyond 30k hp in just group gear yet our base heal is still below 2k with even rk3?This is one of things that other classes point to as utility for both these class but don't seem to understand how freaking bad they are now.Can we get these upped to something reasonable?Yeah, I want bigger heals instead of more DPS! I'd type more but this ether I've been inhaling is making me woozy.
We've got several worthless spells, not to mention any other dps class will hold the fact that we get heals against us at any chance they get. They may as well be worth memming if that's the case.
It's probably due to a lack of time, as much as anything else.
Druid / shaman heals were boosted in terms of HPs during SoD beta, but even that caused a lot of resentment and moaning from certain quarters.
Looking at SoF, it seems BST heals were around half that of a shaman (1623 rank2 BST versus 3319 rank2 SHM)
For SoD, BST heals are now 1866 versus 5249 (rank 2) - that's around a third rather than a half.
As such, BST heals really ought to be 2600 ish to maintain the historical ratio...
ranger and beast heal are suposed to be way under druid heal, and a decent chunk under paladin heal, which they are.
The normal 1 sec pal heal is 2008 at rank 3, your is 1964 at rk3, i would say it s quite decent for a dps class.
I would however say all hybrid healing class need a quit a chunk of healing upgrade, with the hp inflation, i can see paladin regaining their title of pixel healer again.
Let's hear it for the Uniclass!
Let's blur the line between classes, like WoW does...
Want FD and a rez, too? WHY NOT?
If you can't play your class, why not get other class skills.
This is BS and just more GIMME/ENTITLEMENT whining that belongs on the individual class boards.
Sorry, I love ranger and beastlords, but not people that whine and demand others' abilities cause they are not happy with their own eJohnson.
Klonn, maybe you should analyze the healing capacity of the hybrids before you even think to pass judgement on "taking over a cleric's role". As it sits, no hybrid even come close to the strength of even a shaman (still ending up less than half the overall power).
The priests may have kept up with the gear inflation, but hyrbids certainly have not.
Ranger HealOceangreen Aquifer Rk. II1866 Heal ; 482 Mana ; 3 Second Cast Time ; 1.5 Recast
Beastlord HealCadmael's Mending Rk. II1866 Heal ; 482 Mana ; 3 Second Cast Time ; 1.5 Recast
Paladin Direct healsShining Light Rk. II1909 Heal ; 624 Mana ; 1 Cast Time ; 5 Recast
Devout Touch Rk. II 2651 Heal ; 719 Mana ; 3.75 Cast Time ; 1.5 Recast
Shaman Direct HealDannal's Mending Rk. II5249 Heal ; 1144 Mana ; 3.75 Cast Time ; 1.5 Recast
Druid Direct HealGranvida Rk. II5249 Heal ; 853 Mana ; 3.75 Cast Time ; 1.5 Recast
Cleric Direct Heal5832 Heal ; 948 Mana ; 3.75 Cast Time ; 1.5 Recast
Grrrrf wrote:
ranger and beast heal are suposed to be way under druid heal, and a decent chunk under paladin heal, which they are.The normal 1 sec pal heal is 2008 at rank 3, your is 1964 at rk3, i would say it s quite decent for a dps class.I would however say all hybrid healing class need a quit a chunk of healing upgrade, with the hp inflation, i can see paladin regaining their title of pixel healer again.
Everyone got the standard heal increase in SoD, then they realized that hp went up more than that so priests got a boost, which left the hybrids with crappy heals for some reason. The standard increase once again, along with players gaining probably 10k+hp in gear etc with the next expansion our heals wont even be worth memming.
Retron wrote:
Karthos wrote:Was having a discussion about SoD runes and ranger/beastlord heals. We have had so much gear inflation the last two expansions that max hitpoints are just out of control. Both of these classes easily buff to well beyond 30k hp in just group gear yet our base heal is still below 2k with even rk3?It's probably due to a lack of time, as much as anything else.Druid / shaman heals were boosted in terms of HPs during SoD beta, but even that caused a lot of resentment and moaning from certain quarters.Looking at SoF, it seems BST heals were around half that of a shaman (1623 rank2 BST versus 3319 rank2 SHM)For SoD, BST heals are now 1866 versus 5249 (rank 2) - that's around a third rather than a half.As such, BST heals really ought to be 2600 ish to maintain the historical ratio...
Retron, out of curiousity, did you look that up today? If memory serves, along with the update to current heals in SoD, they also back upgraded priest heals as well. I don't remember how far back, but I'm fairly certain it included at least SoF and TSS.
Hatsee wrote:
which left the hybrids with crappy heals for some reason.
The same reason that shamans were left with crappy pets (carried over from SoF, when everyone else's - even cleric hammers - got massive boosts). Time, of rather a lack of it.
Over generalizing classes so they are all alike, even if my archtype is a BAD idea.
Give me more dps, give me more heals, give me more utility !!!
With aa's, focus's etc. These heals are quite useful. Downplay your class all you want, but I have been saved more than a couple times from ranja heals.
I understand the point you are trying to make on scalling and all, but its just an excuse to ask for more healing power imo. Cant expect to bring what you bring to raids / grps and still want more!
Hatsee wrote:which left the hybrids with crappy heals for some reason.The same reason that shamans were left with crappy pets (carried over from SoF, when everyone else's - even cleric hammers - got massive boosts). Time, of rather a lack of it.
Apart that, pet are a very small part of the shaman class,and heal are the main spell of a paladin.
Wyvernwill wrote:
Retron wrote:Karthos wrote:Was having a discussion about SoD runes and ranger/beastlord heals. We have had so much gear inflation the last two expansions that max hitpoints are just out of control. Both of these classes easily buff to well beyond 30k hp in just group gear yet our base heal is still below 2k with even rk3?It's probably due to a lack of time, as much as anything else.Druid / shaman heals were boosted in terms of HPs during SoD beta, but even that caused a lot of resentment and moaning from certain quarters.Looking at SoF, it seems BST heals were around half that of a shaman (1623 rank2 BST versus 3319 rank2 SHM)For SoD, BST heals are now 1866 versus 5249 (rank 2) - that's around a third rather than a half.As such, BST heals really ought to be 2600 ish to maintain the historical ratio...Retron, out of curiousity, did you look that up today? If memory serves, along with the update to current heals in SoD, they also back upgraded priest heals as well. I don't remember how far back, but I'm fairly certain it included at least SoF and TSS.
I believe they did the SoF heals when they decided to boost the SoD heals, yes.
is today invalidate all classes for the sake of rangers day ont he boards?
ranger heals are pretty adequate in the situation theyre called for. you arent a healre, theyre typically for emergencies only.
how about we focus on the classes that got left inthe dust by the already massive upgrades rangers got?
For you naysayers, it used to be a ranger and bst could (in group content) keep up a tank when the healer died. It wasn't mana effecient enough to take over the role as main healer but would do in a pinch. Starting with TSS it started getting harder to do and today it is pretty much not going to happen. Between player HP mudflation and boosted mob dps all we can do is patch heal. If you have to depend on your local bst/ranger to keep you alive good luck if that mob has any amount of HP left.
fystsofury wrote:
Give me more dps, give me more heals, give me more utility !!! With aa's, focus's etc. These heals are quite useful. Downplay your class all you want, but I have been saved more than a couple times from ranja heals.I understand the point you are trying to make on scalling and all, but its just an excuse to ask for more healing power imo. Cant expect to bring what you bring to raids / grps and still want more!
yeuxdesoir wrote:
is today invalidate all classes for the sake of rangers day ont he boards? ranger heals are pretty adequate in the situation theyre called for. you arent a healre, theyre typically for emergencies only. how about we focus on the classes that got left inthe dust by the already massive upgrades rangers got?
............
This post actually hurt my brain. A 3 second cast time is an "emergency" heal? Seriously? THAT is your definition of an "emergency" heal?
Klonn, maybe you should analyze the healing capacity of the hybrids before you even think to pass judgement on "taking over a cleric's role". As it sits, no hybrid even come close to the strength of even a shaman (still ending up less than half the overall power).The priests may have kept up with the gear inflation, but hyrbids certainly have not.Ranger HealOceangreen Aquifer Rk. II1866 Heal ; 482 Mana ; 3 Second Cast Time ; 1.5 RecastBeastlord HealCadmael's Mending Rk. II1866 Heal ; 482 Mana ; 3 Second Cast Time ; 1.5 RecastPaladin Direct healsShining Light Rk. II1909 Heal ; 624 Mana ; 1 Cast Time ; 5 RecastDevout Touch Rk. II 2651 Heal ; 719 Mana ; 3.75 Cast Time ; 1.5 RecastShaman Direct HealDannal's Mending Rk. II5249 Heal ; 1144 Mana ; 3.75 Cast Time ; 1.5 RecastDruid Direct HealGranvida Rk. II5249 Heal ; 853 Mana ; 3.75 Cast Time ; 1.5 RecastCleric Direct Heal5832 Heal ; 948 Mana ; 3.75 Cast Time ; 1.5 Recast
My apologies that you completely missed my sarcasm.
yeuxdesoir wrote:is today invalidate all classes for the sake of rangers day ont he boards? ranger heals are pretty adequate in the situation theyre called for. you arent a healre, theyre typically for emergencies only. how about we focus on the classes that got left inthe dust by the already massive upgrades rangers got?............This post actually hurt my brain. A 3 second cast time is an "emergency" heal? Seriously? THAT is your definition of an "emergency" heal?
I would call it a good example of an emergency heal. I mean, you do use them for emergencies right? Like when the healer dies, you can still heal a tad. I would call the main healer dieing an emergency!
when the dps dies, at least for the clerics sake, there is no dps to be had to compensate for your loss and its game over. When a cleric dies, you can take over for a breif period and heal. Does that sound all together fair? Not really but its how eq is and thats the way it is.
Although you can twist words around and make it look like they are calling a "3 second heal" an emergecy heal and then poke fun, but I know what you are trying to do!
Wyvernwill wrote: yeuxdesoir wrote: is today invalidate all classes for the sake of rangers day ont he boards? ranger heals are pretty adequate in the situation theyre called for. you arent a healre, theyre typically for emergencies only. how about we focus on the classes that got left inthe dust by the already massive upgrades rangers got? ............ This post actually hurt my brain. A 3 second cast time is an "emergency" heal? Seriously? THAT is your definition of an "emergency" heal? I would call it a good example of an emergency heal. I mean, you do use them for emergencies right? Like when the healer dies, you can still heal a tad. I would call the main healer dieing an emergency! when the dps dies, at least for the clerics sake, there is no dps to be had to compensate for your loss and its game over. When a cleric dies, you can take over for a breif period and heal. Does that sound all together fair? Not really but its how eq is and thats the way it is. Although you can twist words around and make it look like they are calling a "3 second heal" an emergecy heal and then poke fun, but I know what you are trying to do!
yeuxdesoir wrote: is today invalidate all classes for the sake of rangers day ont he boards? ranger heals are pretty adequate in the situation theyre called for. you arent a healre, theyre typically for emergencies only. how about we focus on the classes that got left inthe dust by the already massive upgrades rangers got? ............ This post actually hurt my brain. A 3 second cast time is an "emergency" heal? Seriously? THAT is your definition of an "emergency" heal?
I find that most hybrids are so offended by their worthless heals that they'll just go down without healing at all in the situation described above.
As a Warrior I got an instant heal for 8K that I can use every 36 minutes or something like that, and that has kept me alive, and I never quite understand how a 3 second heal that heals somewhere around 4K that you can use over and over again is not as useful as an 8K heal that can only be used once 36 minutes.
As a Paladin, I'm very thankful we have Burst, Aurora, and Group heal to go along with Light and Touch....mainly because Light and Touch are quite terrible. I completely 100% agree that Ranger and Beast Lord heals need a much higher boost than the standard 15% the next time they are upgraded.
Wyvernwill wrote:yeuxdesoir wrote:is today invalidate all classes for the sake of rangers day ont he boards? ranger heals are pretty adequate in the situation theyre called for. you arent a healre, theyre typically for emergencies only. how about we focus on the classes that got left inthe dust by the already massive upgrades rangers got?............This post actually hurt my brain. A 3 second cast time is an "emergency" heal? Seriously? THAT is your definition of an "emergency" heal?I would call it a good example of an emergency heal. I mean, you do use them for emergencies right? Like when the healer dies, you can still heal a tad. I would call the main healer dieing an emergency!when the dps dies, at least for the clerics sake, there is no dps to be had to compensate for your loss and its game over. When a cleric dies, you can take over for a breif period and heal. Does that sound all together fair? Not really but its how eq is and thats the way it is.Although you can twist words around and make it look like they are calling a "3 second heal" an emergecy heal and then poke fun, but I know what you are trying to do!
No, to me, emergency healing is things like Hand of Piety/Lay Hands / Burst of Dawnlight / Divine Arbitration / various other sub 1 second cast heals, things that can actually get to a player before the next combat round finishes them off. Even the warrior disc Auto brought up is a prime example of emergency healing.
These are tools that save people in emergencies. The healer dying means you already missed your chance at even saving the person, now you're just throwing every stupid thing in the book to attempt to salvage the rest of the fight.
3-4 seconds is the standard operating cast time for healing, clerics, druids, shaman etc. That's what healing takes place in normal, non-emergency situations, unless of course you consider every heal cast a bloody emergency, then what's the emergency... someone took damage?
Healer dies, a ranger is better off hitting taunt, weaponshield and burning the mob down than shutting off dps to attempt to heal someone with a heal that wilts in the face of even standard mob dps now days. Too small, too slow sums up their healing capability.
fystsofury wrote:Wyvernwill wrote:yeuxdesoir wrote:is today invalidate all classes for the sake of rangers day ont he boards? ranger heals are pretty adequate in the situation theyre called for. you arent a healre, theyre typically for emergencies only. how about we focus on the classes that got left inthe dust by the already massive upgrades rangers got?............This post actually hurt my brain. A 3 second cast time is an "emergency" heal? Seriously? THAT is your definition of an "emergency" heal?I would call it a good example of an emergency heal. I mean, you do use them for emergencies right? Like when the healer dies, you can still heal a tad. I would call the main healer dieing an emergency!when the dps dies, at least for the clerics sake, there is no dps to be had to compensate for your loss and its game over. When a cleric dies, you can take over for a breif period and heal. Does that sound all together fair? Not really but its how eq is and thats the way it is.Although you can twist words around and make it look like they are calling a "3 second heal" an emergecy heal and then poke fun, but I know what you are trying to do!No, to me, emergency healing is things like Hand of Piety/Lay Hands / Burst of Dawnlight / Divine Arbitration / various other sub 1 second cast heals, things that can actually get to a player before the next combat round finishes them off. Even the warrior disc Auto brought up is a prime example of emergency healing.These are tools that save people in emergencies. The healer dying means you already missed your chance at even saving the person, now you're just throwing every stupid thing in the book to attempt to salvage the rest of the fight.3-4 seconds is the standard operating cast time for healing, clerics, druids, shaman etc. That's what healing takes place in normal, non-emergency situations, unless of course you consider every heal cast a bloody emergency, then what's the emergency... someone took damage?Healer dies, a ranger is better off hitting taunt, weaponshield and burning the mob down than shutting off dps to attempt to heal someone with a heal that wilts in the face of even standard mob dps now days. Too small, too slow sums up their healing capability.
Agreed, however that's only talking about rangers. Bst's are also in the same shape and could hardly do that.
Was having a discussion about SoD runes and ranger/beastlord heals. We have had so much gear inflation the last two expansions that max hitpoints are just out of control. Both of these classes easily buff to well beyond 30k hp in just group gear yet our base heal is still below 2k with even rk3? This is one of things that other classes point to as utility for both these class but don't seem to understand how freaking bad they are now. Can we get these upped to something reasonable?
Looking at the last 3 level increases [the period of of your "gear inflation"] , cleric light heals increased 10% going from lvl 73 to 78, and 15% going from 78 to 83 (using the rank 1 heals). Ranger heals over the same period increased by 10% going from level 71 to 76, and 15% going from 76 to 81.
In other words ranger heals have increased at the exact same pace as cleric heals over the same period. So, your statement that we "don't seem to understand how freaking bad they are now" is incorrect. We understand perfectly, things are the same as they allways have been. You are the one that doesnt understand that.
AutomaticWarrior wrote:
I find that most hybrids are so offended by their worthless heals that they'll just go down without healing at all in the situation described above. As a Warrior I got an instant heal for 8K that I can use every 36 minutes or something like that, and that has kept me alive, and I never quite understand how a 3 second heal that heals somewhere around 4K that you can use over and over again is not as useful as an 8K heal that can only be used once 36 minutes.
Instant means a lot. Not having to fuss with targetting means a lot.
I certainly don't regard ranger heals as worthless but they are seriously weak. I have special keys worked out to target myself and start casting in one action but the targetting hassle remains substantial. If taking melee hits a 3 second heal, which actually takes close to 2 seconds with appropriate beneficial haste, will be interrupted a great deal. Any add worthy of the name on a raid will out damage self healing so all it does is delay death a little bit while accomplishing nothing against the add. On AoEs it is mildly useful if healers are distracted but the DPS cost is substantial. Times when it is useful to heal another player are rare indeed.
Ranger heals are something to use when potions are greyed out.
If they cast faster balanced by longer recast delays that would help.
For a while our heals were rehabilitated but tiny heal advances compared to giant mudflation advances have left them behind. Still, I don't think rangers expect to heal like paladins. Much of the time those "pure melee" spells like mend with their instant cast and auto self target are more useful than weak spellbook heals.
Wyvernwill wrote:fystsofury wrote:Wyvernwill wrote:yeuxdesoir wrote:is today invalidate all classes for the sake of rangers day ont he boards? ranger heals are pretty adequate in the situation theyre called for. you arent a healre, theyre typically for emergencies only. how about we focus on the classes that got left inthe dust by the already massive upgrades rangers got?............This post actually hurt my brain. A 3 second cast time is an "emergency" heal? Seriously? THAT is your definition of an "emergency" heal?I would call it a good example of an emergency heal. I mean, you do use them for emergencies right? Like when the healer dies, you can still heal a tad. I would call the main healer dieing an emergency!when the dps dies, at least for the clerics sake, there is no dps to be had to compensate for your loss and its game over. When a cleric dies, you can take over for a breif period and heal. Does that sound all together fair? Not really but its how eq is and thats the way it is.Although you can twist words around and make it look like they are calling a "3 second heal" an emergecy heal and then poke fun, but I know what you are trying to do!No, to me, emergency healing is things like Hand of Piety/Lay Hands / Burst of Dawnlight / Divine Arbitration / various other sub 1 second cast heals, things that can actually get to a player before the next combat round finishes them off. Even the warrior disc Auto brought up is a prime example of emergency healing.These are tools that save people in emergencies. The healer dying means you already missed your chance at even saving the person, now you're just throwing every stupid thing in the book to attempt to salvage the rest of the fight.3-4 seconds is the standard operating cast time for healing, clerics, druids, shaman etc. That's what healing takes place in normal, non-emergency situations, unless of course you consider every heal cast a bloody emergency, then what's the emergency... someone took damage?Healer dies, a ranger is better off hitting taunt, weaponshield and burning the mob down than shutting off dps to attempt to heal someone with a heal that wilts in the face of even standard mob dps now days. Too small, too slow sums up their healing capability.Agreed, however that's only talking about rangers. Bst's are also in the same shape and could hardly do that.
So, you guys think instead of healing the tank you should try and steal agro, and ws the mob down. Instead of healing?
Makes no sense to me, let 2 or more people die just so you can maybe save the day with WS. What happens when ws is down? Just let the whole grp die?
I am not one to tell another how to play their class, but common sense speaks for itself.
edit --- I am not tryin to say these heals are spectacular or anything. I would not cause an uprise or anything if they did get a little luvin, but as they lie, they are more usefull than most want to admit.
A pure melee with as much utilty as a hybrid maybe thats why.
Hulkling wrote:
Wyvernwill wrote:Klonn, maybe you should analyze the healing capacity of the hybrids before you even think to pass judgement on "taking over a cleric's role". As it sits, no hybrid even come close to the strength of even a shaman (still ending up less than half the overall power).The priests may have kept up with the gear inflation, but hyrbids certainly have not.Ranger HealOceangreen Aquifer Rk. II1866 Heal ; 482 Mana ; 3 Second Cast Time ; 1.5 RecastBeastlord HealCadmael's Mending Rk. II1866 Heal ; 482 Mana ; 3 Second Cast Time ; 1.5 RecastPaladin Direct healsShining Light Rk. II1909 Heal ; 624 Mana ; 1 Cast Time ; 5 RecastDevout Touch Rk. II 2651 Heal ; 719 Mana ; 3.75 Cast Time ; 1.5 RecastShaman Direct HealDannal's Mending Rk. II5249 Heal ; 1144 Mana ; 3.75 Cast Time ; 1.5 RecastDruid Direct HealGranvida Rk. II5249 Heal ; 853 Mana ; 3.75 Cast Time ; 1.5 RecastCleric Direct Heal5832 Heal ; 948 Mana ; 3.75 Cast Time ; 1.5 Recast As a Paladin, I'm very thankful we have Burst, Aurora, and Group heal to go along with Light and Touch....mainly because Light and Touch are quite terrible. I completely 100% agree that Ranger and Beast Lord heals need a much higher boost than the standard 15% the next time they are upgraded.
/nod. Hybrid healing is too far behind.
Hatsee wrote:Wyvernwill wrote:fystsofury wrote:Wyvernwill wrote:yeuxdesoir wrote:is today invalidate all classes for the sake of rangers day ont he boards? ranger heals are pretty adequate in the situation theyre called for. you arent a healre, theyre typically for emergencies only. how about we focus on the classes that got left inthe dust by the already massive upgrades rangers got?............This post actually hurt my brain. A 3 second cast time is an "emergency" heal? Seriously? THAT is your definition of an "emergency" heal?I would call it a good example of an emergency heal. I mean, you do use them for emergencies right? Like when the healer dies, you can still heal a tad. I would call the main healer dieing an emergency!when the dps dies, at least for the clerics sake, there is no dps to be had to compensate for your loss and its game over. When a cleric dies, you can take over for a breif period and heal. Does that sound all together fair? Not really but its how eq is and thats the way it is.Although you can twist words around and make it look like they are calling a "3 second heal" an emergecy heal and then poke fun, but I know what you are trying to do!No, to me, emergency healing is things like Hand of Piety/Lay Hands / Burst of Dawnlight / Divine Arbitration / various other sub 1 second cast heals, things that can actually get to a player before the next combat round finishes them off. Even the warrior disc Auto brought up is a prime example of emergency healing.These are tools that save people in emergencies. The healer dying means you already missed your chance at even saving the person, now you're just throwing every stupid thing in the book to attempt to salvage the rest of the fight.3-4 seconds is the standard operating cast time for healing, clerics, druids, shaman etc. That's what healing takes place in normal, non-emergency situations, unless of course you consider every heal cast a bloody emergency, then what's the emergency... someone took damage?Healer dies, a ranger is better off hitting taunt, weaponshield and burning the mob down than shutting off dps to attempt to heal someone with a heal that wilts in the face of even standard mob dps now days. Too small, too slow sums up their healing capability.Agreed, however that's only talking about rangers. Bst's are also in the same shape and could hardly do that.So, you guys think instead of healing the tank you should try and steal agro, and ws the mob down. Instead of healing?Makes no sense to me, let 2 or more people die just so you can maybe save the day with WS. What happens when ws is down? Just let the whole grp die?I am not one to tell another how to play their class, but common sense speaks for itself.
Have you ever hunted in OBF or CoD? When a mob is 1 rounding for 10k dmg and you heal a tank for 2k hp it doesnt take very long for the tank to go down. Yes as a ranger i rather steal agro WS and have cleric camp or Evac or do something so the whole group isnt wiped compared to me tryin to heal the tank. him dying then mob goes after the caster doing alot more dps cause i'm healing and dying then mob coming to be and me having to WS and pop Gate hammer just so i can run back and rez everyone with my merc. And raising wise i know for my guild ranger's were patch healers when clerics were lom cause there werent many druids and pallies were busy offtanking stuff.
Cactuszach wrote:
/nod. Wisdom-based Hybrid healing is too far behind.
Fixed that for ya . SK life-tap healing (innate procs + spells) is quite impressive for an Int based class, I must say. Paladin Bursts and Group heals ain't bad, but our "efficiency" heals are just as lackluster as Bst and Rng.
Cactuszach wrote:/nod. Wisdom-based Hybrid healing is too far behind.Fixed that for ya . SK life-tap healing (innate procs + spells) is quite impressive for an Int based class, I must say. Paladin Bursts and Group heals ain't bad, but our "efficiency" heals are just as lackluster as Bst and Rng.
qualify that to be 'innate healing, and 12% of the time via taps' and yeah, pretty much.
if sks get lucky with double crits (crit blast/crit heal) then it's pretty 'ooooo' but outside of that, even taking into account crits, our self healing via taps really isn't as awesome as it might seem - this doesn't really become obvious unless, as an sk, you've ever tried to keep yourself alive via just casted taps (while kiting or OT'ing without attack on for whatever reason, etc)our proc taps *really* throw off the perception of our on-deman self healing, which is frankly kind of abysmal, but that's the price we pay for our innate healing, and i'm fine with that.
do you seriously think a ranger should be able to main heal a grp in any current content? that is beyond ridiculous. might as well just tag all rangers as gm's while we're at it and end all of the give rangers more threads.
how bout scaling back ranger dps to put it in line with hybrids and not pure melees in order to get better heals? hows that sound to you?
do you seriously think a ranger should be able to main heal a grp in any current content? that is beyond ridiculous. might as well just tag all rangers as gm's while we're at it and end all of the give rangers more threads. how bout scaling back ranger dps to put it in line with hybrids and not pure melees in order to get better heals? hows that sound to you?
Sounds like a ranger stole your wheaties and pooped in your shoe or something.
I don't believe it was a ranger that brought up main healing a group, it was someone else. Our heals have generally been decent, but never able to keep a tank up for long or with any sort of efficiency at all, that is not what we want. However if what started in SoD continues we'll have just another worthless spell that no one wants to mem, we've got some of those already that we'd like to get rid of, adding to it because of petty people such as yourself that can't seem to do dps, personal problem more than likely, well that's just a bad idea.
First off pretty sure NO ONE as asked to be upgraded to be a main healer but at this point rangers without healing aa's arent even a choice as a emergency healer unless the main healer goes down with the mob low on HP. And i'm pretty sure rangers are now on par with other hybrids as far as dps. Well maybe not Pallies cause well you know they will always blow at dps
yeuxdesoir wrote:do you seriously think a ranger should be able to main heal a grp in any current content? that is beyond ridiculous. might as well just tag all rangers as gm's while we're at it and end all of the give rangers more threads. how bout scaling back ranger dps to put it in line with hybrids and not pure melees in order to get better heals? hows that sound to you? Sounds like a ranger stole your wheaties and pooped in your shoe or something.I don't believe it was a ranger that brought up main healing a group, it was someone else. Our heals have generally been decent, but never able to keep a tank up for long or with any sort of efficiency at all, that is not what we want. However if what started in SoD continues we'll have just another worthless spell that no one wants to mem, we've got some of those already that we'd like to get rid of, adding to it because of petty people such as yourself that can't seem to do dps, personal problem more than likely, well that's just a bad idea.
I think invigorate is my favorite spell /sarcasm off
might as well just tag all rangers as gm's while we're at it and end all of the give rangers more threads.
I approve of this statement. We have all kinds of rangers, would love to have a squad of GM's on the team !
well the fact that this isnt the only thread about how rangers need upgrades doesnt help.
the ranger class seems fine, especially considering that other classes are in dire need of some help.
to continue on the heals, why should a ranger get better heals than a paladin? if my cleric dies in t5 zones im sure as hell not gonna ask for ranger heals, id be more concerned with a real way to slavage the situation.
They gave you mercs so you wouldnt have to ever heal, look for healer, mem a heal, or contemplate how powerful your heals are in comparison to other classes.
Sux it
QFT as an SK, I'm not complaining one bit about our healing abilities. My taps crit for upwards of 5k, I can dot tap at about 600 a tick, and a couple of tap procs varying from ~100 - 1k really make it feel like the mobs aren't hitting me =)
well the fact that this isnt the only thread about how rangers need upgrades doesnt help. the ranger class seems fine, especially considering that other classes are in dire need of some help. to continue on the heals, why should a ranger get better heals than a paladin? if my cleric dies in t5 zones im sure as hell not gonna ask for ranger heals, id be more concerned with a real way to slavage the situation.
Paladins base heal can use a boost as well.
I think you've hit bottom then you just keep on going, interesting.
Who said that rangers want to heal better than paladins and was it even a ranger that said it?
However ignoring your ranger hate this thread was about hybrids, rangers/bsts to be specific. We have the same heal, so it makes sense.
Also about your situation there, rangers even said it's not a valid way to save anything in challenging content, ranger healing the tank I mean. The solution most of us would come up with is to taunt and WS burn it down, not to heal the tank.
Lanlastone wrote:
They gave you mercs so you wouldnt have to ever heal, look for healer, mem a heal, or contemplate how powerful your heals are in comparison to other classes.Sux it
Can't use them in a full group or on raids.
Sux it yourself.
