Hulkling wrote:
gcubed wrote:Never had any problems? Not even the first time? You are unusual then. Most people do when presented with the camera leaping forward and back like that for the first time. Most people generally wind up moving out of range of melee trying to adjust. Some people (a very few) become ill because if the changes in the camera (a version of motion sickness, I guess). Normally, it only takes a few fights to get used to it. How many varies from individual to individual. Some (those that become physically ill, mostly), never do.yar I can't stand wolf illusion because of everything you mention here.Qutsemnie wrote:What race do you play that you shake more in wolf form than your native race? My dark elf shimmies just as bad as the wolf. I avoid the natural camera view though and use the first camera. Newer races and illusions dont shake so bad. The new goblin is smooth as ice in melee.My Barbarian alt warrior makes me motion sick in 1st person, and I imagine Ogre/Troll would be similar. But its a different kind of shimmy shake....Barb is more nautious, while wolf is more back and forth screwing up your melee range.
gcubed wrote:
Never had any problems? Not even the first time? You are unusual then. Most people do when presented with the camera leaping forward and back like that for the first time. Most people generally wind up moving out of range of melee trying to adjust. Some people (a very few) become ill because if the changes in the camera (a version of motion sickness, I guess). Normally, it only takes a few fights to get used to it. How many varies from individual to individual. Some (those that become physically ill, mostly), never do.
yar I can't stand wolf illusion because of everything you mention here.
Qutsemnie wrote:
What race do you play that you shake more in wolf form than your native race? My dark elf shimmies just as bad as the wolf. I avoid the natural camera view though and use the first camera. Newer races and illusions dont shake so bad. The new goblin is smooth as ice in melee.
My Barbarian alt warrior makes me motion sick in 1st person, and I imagine Ogre/Troll would be similar. But its a different kind of shimmy shake....Barb is more nautious, while wolf is more back and forth screwing up your melee range.
I don't buy that once in wolf the visual shake causes your melee range to fluctuate. The reason is I have used wolf form religiously. I've gotten jokes from strangers about not used to seeing me out of wolf form I use it so much. I have never noticed my melee range changing as the view port changed. And I have fought at max melee in AE ramps against rooted mobs in wolf form. But I do buy that a wolf form at the moment of casting changes your melee range. Can't say I noticed, but that is consistent with what I know of illusions.
So scenario you are at max melee for your native race, ranger hits you with a wolf form based AA, its entirely plausible that the illusion knocks you out of max melee at the time of casting. Thats prolly an issue. One I don't notice cause I am either already in wolf form or goblin form, but I buy its existance.
I don't buy that once in wolf the visual shake causes your melee range to fluctuate. The reason is I have used wolf form religiously. I've gotten jokes from strangers about not used to seeing me out of wolf form I use it so much. I have never noticed my melee range changing as the view port changed. And I have fought at max melee in AE ramps against rooted mobs in wolf form. But I do buy that a wolf form at the moment of casting changes your melee range. Can't say I noticed, but that is consistent with what I know of illusions. So scenario you are at max melee for your native race, ranger hits you with a wolf form based AA, its entirely plausible that the illusion knocks you out of max melee at the time of casting. Thats prolly an issue. One I don't notice cause I am either already in wolf form or goblin form, but I buy its existance.
No the actual melee range doesn't fluctuate, its just purely perception. If I get wolf form and don't realize it, it totally borks me all up: 1 second I'm directly under the mob, the next I'm back to my original melee spot....or so it seems. Good thing I play with sound so I can hear myself barking or I'd go nuts trying to figure what the hecks going on lol.
Wolf form is just awful for this. The point of view is well forward of your character's center so to be safely in range you pretty much have to crawl up the mob's tail as seen in first person. If the mob has a large model but small hit box you wind up inside. If it is long like a crocodile or mammoth from Icefall you wind up deep inside before you are in melee range. Add the back and forth bounce and all the yapping and it is really quite unpleasant.
Yapping?
I may need to turn EQ noises back on, to hear that, because I don't remember yapping. Barking/growling, yes, yapping, no.
Playing EQ without its noises since early 2000 ...
Its funny when a pure melee would come into a thread and say a class that is partial utility does not need a increase to that utility and i beleive ours heals are just that.
ronthorn wrote:
Ironicaly the same comedic outcome occurs when a hybrid comes in and tells a pure melle what they need or do not need.
roth wrote:
Yapping?I may need to turn EQ noises back on, to hear that, because I don't remember yapping. Barking/growling, yes, yapping, no.Playing EQ without its noises since early 2000 ...
when you get hit you yap, or whine, or whatever you wanna call it.
Yella_TT wrote:
Karthos wrote: Was having a discussion about SoD runes and ranger/beastlord heals. We have had so much gear inflation the last two expansions that max hitpoints are just out of control. Both of these classes easily buff to well beyond 30k hp in just group gear yet our base heal is still below 2k with even rk3? This is one of things that other classes point to as utility for both these class but don't seem to understand how freaking bad they are now. Can we get these upped to something reasonable? Looking at the last 3 level increases [the period of of your "gear inflation"] , cleric light heals increased 10% going from lvl 73 to 78, and 15% going from 78 to 83 (using the rank 1 heals). Ranger heals over the same period increased by 10% going from level 71 to 76, and 15% going from 76 to 81. In other words ranger heals have increased at the exact same pace as cleric heals over the same period. So, your statement that we "don't seem to understand how freaking bad they are now" is incorrect. We understand perfectly, things are the same as they allways have been. You are the one that doesnt understand that.
Karthos wrote:
Was having a discussion about SoD runes and ranger/beastlord heals. We have had so much gear inflation the last two expansions that max hitpoints are just out of control. Both of these classes easily buff to well beyond 30k hp in just group gear yet our base heal is still below 2k with even rk3? This is one of things that other classes point to as utility for both these class but don't seem to understand how freaking bad they are now. Can we get these upped to something reasonable?
Was having a discussion about SoD runes and ranger/beastlord heals. We have had so much gear inflation the last two expansions that max hitpoints are just out of control. Both of these classes easily buff to well beyond 30k hp in just group gear yet our base heal is still below 2k with even rk3?
This is one of things that other classes point to as utility for both these class but don't seem to understand how freaking bad they are now.
Can we get these upped to something reasonable?
Looking at the last 3 level increases [the period of of your "gear inflation"] , cleric light heals increased 10% going from lvl 73 to 78, and 15% going from 78 to 83 (using the rank 1 heals). Ranger heals over the same period increased by 10% going from level 71 to 76, and 15% going from 76 to 81.
In other words ranger heals have increased at the exact same pace as cleric heals over the same period. So, your statement that we "don't seem to understand how freaking bad they are now" is incorrect. We understand perfectly, things are the same as they allways have been. You are the one that doesnt understand that.
Cleric heals were bigger to start with.
However I think they meant dru/shm
Puravida
2008-10-29 02:25 Changed Slot 1 from "Increase Hitpoints by 3455 (L77) to 3485 (L80) " to "Increase Hitpoints by 4178 (L77) to 4208 (L80) "
Gemmi's mending
2008-10-29 02:25 Changed Slot 1 from "Increase Hitpoints by 3040 (L7 to 3060 (L80) " to "Increase Hitpoints by 4188 (L7 to 4208 (L80) "
To the one saying a beast/ranger has 1/3 of a cleric's healing power: Clerics have promised, Night, Light, Remedy, CHeal, Elixir, and Renewal. Well I won't comment further on how that arguement sounds.
Beast/Ranger healing has simply moved back to the way it was in planes of power, where it would take you 15-20 heals to fill up an average raider.
2006-10-05 07:37 Changed Slot 1 from "Increase Hitpoints by 428" to "Increase Hitpoints by 994 (L55) to 1044 (L60)"
Rng/Bst were bad healers then, and in Omens, they upped the heal by alot, allowing it to help some in raids, and allowing beasts/rangers to really do well healing in groups. A crit heal on an OoW group tank might do 25% with full focus/crit/AA, if memory serves.
Now with gearflation, even clerics are feeling a pinch but their heals were large enough to begin with to not be as affected. Druids and Shamans already felt the pinch and got their heals upgraded in SoF. Paladin/Bst/Rng haven't got their heals upped. Neither has cleric, but they have gained new spells to help them lately that they didn't have in older expansions. It used to be Light/Remedy/Elixir/Cheal. Now they have Night, Renewal, and Promised as well.
When I started my beast, up until the change of chloroblast to more than double its base.. I wouldn't dare try to main heal my group with a 428hp heal. I rarely used it to keep people alive in an older content raid, or to heal myself while soloing or between pulls.
Bst/Rng have been here before, before... it was upgraded to bring them up to allow them to do more healing, I'm assuming. Now it has simply decayed back down with time and massive gearflation(Group gear getting much closer to raid gear and the +3000hp boon everyone got for whatever reason a while back). Our heals have decayed vs typical max hp, that is an undeniable fact. The question is, will soe once again bring the heals up? Do bst/rng need to be at pre-2006 healing percents when they could not do alot with their heals? Do they need to be closer to dru/shm?
Druids have a defensive proc heal buff and a promised heal, as well as a group heal they can throw out if I'm not mistaken? Shamans have a good size HoT and a group heal.
To increase the bst/rng/pal heals to match shm/dru increases would put them around 2400 for the bst/rng and 3000(3500 for the paladin would seem ok to me) for the paladin would seem reasonable to me. Not sure why something that small gets under so many people's skin. A 2400 heal still isn't going to do much more than a 1700-1800 heal would do on a dot for 2500/tick let's say.
Clerics didn't get an increase, but their heals were large before, and they got lots of options these last few expansions. Shamans got an option, druids got two options. Both got increases to keep pace with HP. Paladins got an option, but their base regular heal still is weak. Rng/Bst have no options besides one heal and it's extremely weak compared to today's HP totals.
Back then:
Paladins didn't have Burst
Clerics didn't have Renewal, Promised, or Night
Shamans didn't have group heals, but they had a CHeal spell
Druids didn't have a promised spell, but they had a cheal spell.
Bst/Rng heals were as weak vs current hp levels(at least raid) as they are now.
Back then, Bst/Rng heals were upgraded from being about a third to half as powerful as paladin heals or weaker which they had matched along 1-60, to being about 66-75% as powerful as a paladin heal with the chloro update/OoW rollout. Paladin doubled their heal from 57 to 61, where bst/rng only went up 33%. However when they corrected this, they upped bst/rng a little high.. 1000 instead of the 700 it should have been.
They upped the heals back then, when there were less healing options, and less reason for bst/rng upgraded heals. Sets a good thing to look back on for them doing it again. Hybrids didn't get any healing options except the paladin got a couple. Dru/Shm have had their direct heal bumped in power and gained an option they didn't have, however small. Clerics have gained multiple options.
If the argument is whether rangers/beastlords should have a heal, that's something else. Given the data however, a bump to power if you are going to keep giving us a heal.... looks due to me.
Apologies for all the typos, incorrect grammar, and other mistakes. I'm oddly tired, but not sleepy and couldn't go to sleep, so I came to read the forum.
I'd agree that ranger/hybrid heals are behind the curve (can't speak for beastlords/pals as I don't play one).
Another consideration is that most priest classes have a better heal focus as well as their crits are hitting for double which makes an even bigger difference when comparing actual healing per second or what not. So even though you look at the base and say 'sure a ranger or pallies heal has always been 'x' % of a cleric or druid's' it doesn't mean that it's scaling at that same % when you actually get down to how the spell is actually performing in usage.
Utility of our heal spells is less now with inflated HP with each new expansion. If it was supposed to be than ok sure working as intended, however, I would agree with previous posters that our next heal needs to be more than just the standard upgrade to keep the spells utility the same as it has been in the past.
Samoa Deadshot, 85th seasoned Ranger of Alarius of Cazic
Samoa-Brell wrote:
Rng/Bst/Pal get the same exact healing AA as pure priests except for Abundant Healing. Adept, Gift, and Boon (if applicable) are identical among the wisdom classes. Worn heal focus is also the same, except for the Raid 4.5 gear. Then of course Clerics get a 5% innate heal bonus. So Crits are not part of the equation, and only higher focus can be factored in for top end raiders. Not disagreeing at all with hybrids needing better heals, just setting the record straight
Time for some Critical Heal Amount(x) imo. Does that effect even exist?
Calixto-Combine wrote:
It exists in the form of a buff from a herald (and something that looks to be from the upcoming expansion), but not as a worn effect.
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.ht...amp;source=Live
Peaky wrote:
Calixto-Combine wrote:Time for some Critical Heal Amount(x) imo. Does that effect even exist?It exists in the form of a buff from a herald (and something that looks to be from the upcoming expansion), but not as a worn effect.http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.ht...amp;source=Livehttp://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.ht...amp;source=Live
Critical Heal(x) is increased/decreased chance to get a critical heal (it's used on the Auspice line, for example). I mean something that increases the value of critical heals by some % of the base amount healed, like Glyph of Destruction/wizard second spire/etc do for nukes.
I am trying to understand why this would be necessary, given the multitude of amplifiers that already exist for the base amount of heals (which, in turn, amplify the critical heals).
Yes, a healing version of the Destructive Fury line would be nice, but wouldn't improving the base heals be more effective?
Well rangers and beastlords are hybrid classes - they may well sway more to one class than another (more to the dps side maybe, while paladins and SKs sway more to the tanking side), but they were still derived from a fusion of two separate classes.
I dislike the feeling that dps is of paramount importance for so many raids and hence half the classes in EQ consider themselves pure dps now. Hybrids always were behind the curve in DPS but having flexibility and ample utility. So with the next expansion I'd be more than happy to see an improvement in healing or other utility and less of an improvement in DPS. Yeah I know people want to have their cake AND eat it, but let's face it that just breaks the game somewhere else. The entire thing is a balance of give and take.
So I sort of agree with the OP that the heals are a bit below par these days given the dps output of mobs, but I think it should come at an expense of a slight repositioning to be a true hybrid class again rather than 90% of one and only 10% of another. For it to work though events need to actually need more low level group heals, more cures, etc. Otherwise the same situation exists of the only perceived utility being worth anything is the straight dps output and we're back to square one.
Brog
All you complaining Beastlords and Rangers, ask yourself this question. Would u take a decrease in DPS for added healing power? Dont bother answering since the answer is no. Thus things are rightfully balanced and should stay the way they currently are.
I already took a DPS decrease.
Olbaid07 wrote:
You mean that hit we already took? You mean the linking of spells for bsts that in turn gave them a decrease in dps? Don't bother posting if you don't already know the answer
The fix to mist was a decent dps nerf.
Also what people are asking for is our heals to get boosted, something that was forgotten or not even responded to by the devs in beta after all the priest heals were brought to similar levels.
how many hp's people have doesn't have anything to do with anything. I like my beastlord. The only reason I heal is if someone is about to die, it gives the cleric another sec to land thier heal.
thats the only point of our heals I think. so, our heals need to be able to overcome most group contents dps for at least a few seconds, so a real healer can get thier spell off. Im 83, so far for me my heals do that. don't know if it changes at 85, but I would guess that it does not.
if the healer dies, then thats when you start kitting, evacing, or whatever you can that doesn't involve you standing there and getting hit.
but I guess thats just me, I have no desire whatsover to be any kind of healer other than what I described above.
Well, I agree that ranger heal's are pretty useless nowdays. There has been a big increase in hitpoints, but our heals, even when critted are basically useless in anykind of current combat situation.
Mostly they are useless in a solo/duo situatios due to the addition of healer mercs. Since I always have a healer, I can't even remember the last time I actually needed to heal myself. There is no way I could keep myself or anyone else alive in current content if a mob is beating on them. It is a waste of time and mana.
Heck, I just now noticed that I didn't have the Rk II version of our heal spell....8 months after the expansion release. I just never use the spell b/c it is so ineffective. Many months would go by without ever casting the heal spell. /shrug.
Might as well take the heal spell out of our lineup for good, and stop using it as some excuse to hold back out DPS. With Pot and Mercs, who needs some lame wimpy heal spell anyway. There is no need. Give me DPS, as that is what is useful and meaningful.
.
ziddly wrote:
how many hp's people have doesn't have anything to do with anything. I like my beastlord. The only reason I heal is if someone is about to die, it gives the cleric another sec to land thier heal. thats the only point of our heals I think. so, our heals need to be able to overcome most group contents dps for at least a few seconds, so a real healer can get thier spell off. Im 83, so far for me my heals do that. don't know if it changes at 85, but I would guess that it does not.if the healer dies, then thats when you start kitting, evacing, or whatever you can that doesn't involve you standing there and getting hit. but I guess thats just me, I have no desire whatsover to be any kind of healer other than what I described above.
You don't see an issue with the base amount on our heal going up by a few hundred when our base hp unbuffed went up by 10k+?
neomongo wrote:
our heals could use a good size boost. but how many rangers even bothered to get our new BALMs? they are useless as a heal and haven't gone up in counters since they first started , sure the heals have gotten bigger a whole 200 hps between the first spell in tbs? to the new one in sod whoopty doo .
The first of that cure line came out in TSS, not TBS. Subsequent expansions have released versions of the spell that have cost more, but did not cure more.
THAT would be why people generally don't go for the higher balms. Personally, I regret getting rank 2 of the TSS one.
The problem is .. Devs are unwilling to increase the amount cured, and are effectively trying to turn it into a heal, increasing the amount healed (and mana cost) with each new version and each rank of the spells. Sadly, it will always be overshadowed by our regular heal, in that aspect. I have my best heal memmed always (yes, I'll even cast it when I'm two boxing, with two cleric mercs - they don't always top me off after the mob is dead) and the TSS salve/balm spell memmed almost always.
Where's all this flexibility everyone keeps talking about? As a beastlord, we don't enjoy even close to as much flexibility as our hybrids brother(s) do.
I can slow mob melee by 15% (gg partial slows)? While mobs strike through my druid's armor at a larger rate?
Coming in last in the dps department among the dps classes (by a wide margin), and almost being on par with warrior dps?
Being the only supposed dps class who has not received a new disc since the PoP era?
My mana regen abilities that have stagnated even worse than our heals? Anyone remember those Ofossaa fights where paragon MGBs used to be serious raid savers? Now they essentially give mana to cast 2 spells. As for SE, at 26 mana per tick, it will net 260 mana per minute. Yes, I know, it's staggering. In a 5 minute fight, it may even get you an extra spell cast.
Or is it my ability to heal 1/6th of an "xp" mob's round of damage with a 3 second cast time spell?
Trading off double attack cap and flurries for a squishy, gimped pet?
Please tell me where this flexibility you speak of is, other than in mostly outdated abilities, that used to be useful once upon a time.
It's not like any of us are trying to become real healers, but it'd be nice to adjust the upcoming spells to the content it's intended for, instead of the standard cut & paste we've had to endure for far too long. Ferocity is still a spell line? And they keep "improving" it still? Don't make me laugh.
Beast Lords should get HoT
Yes, I said it.
Beastlors ability to heal for current content with current spells is near to NIL, it barely keeps with AE dots ticks from raid encounters and in some of them even with a lucky crit we barely heal a dot's tick (counting a crit between 5k - 6k+ depending on aas and focuses) this all the utility you will get from rng/bst healing spells nowadays.
Most of beastlords do not even mem the heal in group situations (me included) as it is of zero use, having pots and mercs around (pots also benefit from healing aas):
Effect: Healing Potion XIV1: Increase Hitpoints by 3120 to 3500 (random)
versus (casting time 3sec)
Oceangreen Aquifer Rk. III RNG/81 1: Increase Hitpoints by 1924 (L81) to 1964 (L85) 495 mana
Cadmael's Mending Rk. III BST/82 1: Increase Hitpoints by 1934 (L82) to 1964 (L85) 495 mana
Even when pots recast delay its 120 secs, both potions and rng/bst heals are situational and only to be used once or twice mostly, else you are probably dead...
It is long overdue that rng/bsts healing capabilities are revised to cope with their intended scope, to keep with AEs, DoTs, and eventual patch healing.
It doesn't matter how they work that around, I dont mind rangers getting a bigger fast heal and beasts getting HoT instead or boost both heals to a noticeable amount. Those heals crits (to give a margin) should at least cover a round of a currents content mob to be effective, and that means a potential heal of 8k (and I'm beeing conservative here).
Thinking aloud, heck give both rangers and beasts versions of spells 10 levels below current max from druid and shaman.
Give rangers either of (or similar versions):
Pure Life DRU/72 1: Increase Hitpoints by 3146 (L72) to 3176 (L75) 742 Adrenaline Surge DRU/75 1: Increase Hitpoints by 3439 981
And beastolrds (leaving current heal as it is, useless) either of (or similar versions)Halcyon Breeze SHM/73 1: Increase Hitpoints v2 by 1203 per tick 735 (4812-7218 heal depending on extension aas, 4 to 6 ticks)
This would also give the "supposed" flavor of rangers beeing druid hybrids and beastlords shaman hybrids ... but thats another issue.
For those starting to yell out OMG he wants to replace druids and shamans! ... well I would not mind to give those spells a high enough recast to not beeing possible to chain them, give them a recast time 5 times higher and all is set (devs can even copy the spells and just modify recast hey!). You got now "healer hybrid" types actually able to do what they are supposed to do, to throw an emergency heal when needed.
Anything really but not those sod copy/paste heal spells both have now.
Major issue I see with HoTs is stackability. Assuming you have a shaman in group with their group HoT ticking, we'll be once again reduced to our gimp healing abilities.
Lillpiggy wrote:
Aye it has stacking issues, but it doesn't happen as often as you'd think. Its obviously not the end all be all, but what it does is gives BST another heal option....something this thread has recognized that Rng and Bst are lacking. Plus, its fits the role of having a shaman parent class.
Samoa-Brell wrote:Another consideration is that most priest classes have a better heal focus as well as their crits are hitting for double which makes an even bigger difference when comparing actual healing per second or what not. So even though you look at the base and say 'sure a ranger or pallies heal has always been 'x' % of a cleric or druid's' it doesn't mean that it's scaling at that same % when you actually get down to how the spell is actually performing in usage.Rng/Bst/Pal get the same exact healing AA as pure priests except for Abundant Healing. Adept, Gift, and Boon (if applicable) are identical among the wisdom classes. Worn heal focus is also the same, except for the Raid 4.5 gear. Then of course Clerics get a 5% innate heal bonus. So Crits are not part of the equation, and only higher focus can be factored in for top end raiders. Not disagreeing at all with hybrids needing better heals, just setting the record straight
Hulking, not sure what I said that you needed to set straight since I never said anything about AA's, just that when you take into account doubling the spell crits it doubles the gap that is the difference. To me as a ranger there's not as much heal focus gear readily available on good hybrid items as there is for priests, i'm not saying it doesn't exist.
I heal for maybe 6.5-7k tops on crit, whereas a druid heals for what, 18-20k+? Of of a 2k and 5k base spell. Sure they should be able to, just saying our crit heal doesn't really even heal much yet a druid crit would heal for half a tank's hp or so. It's not a difference of '3k' at that point but a difference of '13k' That's all I'm saying should be taken into 'consideration.' It would be nice to be able to crit in the 9-10k range when people hit the 50khp mark commonly at level 90 instead of the projected 8k that may come from the next upgrade. I'm not asking to heal 15-20k crits, just something more effective than bind wound.
ie crit heal for 18-20% crits and 9-10% non crit on a 50khp tank doesn't seem to be asking too much and would be in line with past hp/heal strength, yet healing for 3.75k non crit on a 50khp is going to just be painful and not consistent with the past.
Not disagreeing at all with hybrids needing better heals, just setting the record straight
Hey, leave SK heals alone! We're (and yes, i speak for all of us, they just don't know it yet..) perfectly happy =)
Has to be the worse post I've seen in years. That's like saying to any class if you aren't willing to have something taken away then your class is perfect. What? Idiotic.
Hey mr pally, would you like better aggro or dps in exchange for the other? Of course not, so your class must be perfect.....
OR JUST MAYBE THEY NEED A BOOST IN BOTH! JUST MAYBE! ...geeze...
ah, I see. I spose thats an odd way of looking at crit heals. As far as avialable focus, yes that was true in the past, but ever since SoF every neck that is Ranger useable should have heal focus on it.
Beastlord and ranger heals are fine. They cost next to no mana (think my ranger friends tell me its something like 1% per heal) and do 8k on every crit. That sounds about fine to me considering you are hybrids, and is consistent with past heal rates/vs mob damage for beastlords/rangers.
8k on every crit? lol. 8k is close to the max crit with an 85% heal focus.
buckeye90 wrote:
No chance at all you get 8k every crit, that is top focus roll on top heal focus, also gorup is 55% max I see around 4.5-5k average per crit (some lower some higher).
Nice, so he gets a max crit heal every single time? Sounds like hacks, or at the very least not normal for either of the hybrids this thread is about. Ask him what his lowest heal is, sounds like if anything he doesn't pay attention or you asked him what he can heal for and made some assumption to make it sound like things are fine, which is just crap.
Well I'm not a 48k mana beastlord myself, rangers may have a more mana efficient heal, but...
I have a gimpy 45% heal focus, rk 2 heal, and all healing aa maxed.
[Wed Jun 10 00:02:00 2009] You perform an exceptional heal! (5001)[Wed Jun 10 00:02:12 2009] You perform an exceptional heal! (5497)[Wed Jun 10 00:02:31 2009] You perform an exceptional heal! (5574)[Wed Jun 10 00:02:37 2009] You perform an exceptional heal! (5612)[Wed Jun 10 00:03:38 2009] You perform an exceptional heal! (6146)[Wed Jun 10 00:04:13 2009] You perform an exceptional heal! (5459)[Wed Jun 10 00:04:25 2009] You perform an exceptional heal! (5459)[Wed Jun 10 00:04:47 2009] You perform an exceptional heal! (5077)[Wed Jun 10 00:04:53 2009] You perform an exceptional heal! (5077)[Wed Jun 10 00:05:16 2009] You perform an exceptional heal! (6185)
I get 2.5k heals all the time with rank 3, max AA and a Tower focus, which basically means I was wasting my time casting the heal when I could have been DPSing.
Just for the record, to dispell myths of these constant 8k crit heal crap.
Using Cadmael's Mending Rk. II with 85/85 focus, max'd healing AAs, and 142 heal amount (whatever that's worth).
Crit rate: 35.6%
Fizzle Rate (57): 5.1%
Just for the record, to dispell myths of these constant 8k crit heal crap.Using Cadmael's Mending Rk. II with 85/85 focus, max'd healing AAs, and 142 heal amount (whatever that's worth). AllCritNon-crit# of casts1051374677 Min252050412520 Avg452067053314 Max832483244162Crit rate: 35.6%Fizzle Rate (57): 5.1%
Wont help, his best buddy in the whole world that plays a ranger told him that he heals for 8k all the time, so obviously we're all lieing about how much we heal for and don't need a boost of any sort.
how about the degration of regeneration spells, druid/shm/beast/ranger/bard etc vs the total hp amount.
be it hp or mana regeneration.
outside of raids where the extra mana adds up "to a point" mana regen simply isn't needed in a grouping game at this point in time with OoC regen.
case in point, bards mana regen of the very best 62+54 per tick=116 per tick. at a say 40k mana pool thats 344 ticks to regen to full, or 34minutes if my math is right or i'm not up to late to even do math.
thats with both mana regen aura and mana regen song, to fill a full topend mana bar.
thats an extra 5800 mana over a 5 minute fight. or 600 mana less then the rk3 mana boost aura enchanters have that is cast and forget for 30minutes.
all from a song that requires 100% of bards aura power and 1/4th our song power at a constant upkeep of every 3 ticks.
considering direct heals get foci and only some class get HoT foci AA, regeneration is the healing aspect that needs the most attention.
hence the one of the reasons i gave up the bard. add to that the next expan gives 16% overhaste on a max 25% of what used to be our sole melee support ability now farmed out.
no wonder guilds are bard light outside of afk buff bots.
back on topic though, maybe hybrids should be giving less base amount heal spells, but have more AAs that would increase the foci of said spells that would stack with worn foci. giving the "chance" to actually heal for a reasonable amount but not be something of enough certainty that would tred upon true priest healing. (not simply heal crits)(ala the worn damage foci and bard aura foci stacking for damage spells, or the new % foci for heals)
albiet random.
Gwyddon_7th wrote:
back on topic though, maybe hybrids should be giving less base amount heal spells, but have more AAs that would increase the foci of said spells that would stack with worn foci. giving the "chance" to actually heal for a reasonable amount but not be something of enough certainty that would tred upon true priest healing. (not simply heal crits)(ala the worn damage foci and bard aura foci stacking for damage spells, or the new % foci for heals)albiet random.
Hybrids are already overburdened in the AA dept in that they have to work many different areas up just to achieve basic functionality. This is especially so with beastlords, who aside from needing to work their defensive, melee, spell dmg, heal, & utility AAs, also need to work their pet defensive & offensive AAs. Last thing I'd want to see is to have even more of an AA grind just to get a heal worth casting.
beryon wrote:
Gwyddon_7th wrote:back on topic though, maybe hybrids should be giving less base amount heal spells, but have more AAs that would increase the foci of said spells that would stack with worn foci. giving the "chance" to actually heal for a reasonable amount but not be something of enough certainty that would tred upon true priest healing. (not simply heal crits)(ala the worn damage foci and bard aura foci stacking for damage spells, or the new % foci for heals)albiet random. Hybrids are already overburdened in the AA dept in that they have to work many different areas up just to achieve basic functionality. This is especially so with beastlords, who aside from needing to work their defensive, melee, spell dmg, heal, & utility AAs, also need to work their pet defensive & offensive AAs. Last thing I'd want to see is to have even more of an AA grind just to get a heal worth casting.
I'd rather have the option of increasing my chars power through grinding AA (hybrids), then not to have any AA at all (bards).
We just get 600-700 AA less then hybrids, being "a jack of all trades", with nill options.
I think my ranger heals are ok. I don't expect to be a cleric or a druid or a shaman. Still, I wish there was more choice in our class choices. For example, I wish AA's branched. In other words, you couldn't have everything on the aa list, but you could have some of it. This way, you could have more healing while losing tanking or dps ability.
EDIT: I'm a 80 ranger. I heal around 2400+ per and about 4900+ for crits. It's fine for my 19k hp unbuffed. I haven't fully trained the crit aa for heals. My heal buff is 35%. I'm by no means the best I could be in healing.
Naudanyas wrote:
I think my ranger heals are ok. I don't expect to be a cleric or a druid or a shaman. Still, I wish there was more choice in our class choices. For example, I wish AA's branched. In other words, you couldn't have everything on the aa list, but you could have some of it. This way, you could have more healing while losing tanking or dps ability.EDIT: I'm a 80 ranger. I heal around 2400+ per and about 4900+ for crits. It's fine for my 19k hp unbuffed. I haven't fully trained the crit aa for heals. My heal buff is 35%. I'm by no means the best I could be in healing.
Yea 2400 with 4900 crits is good for 25k or so buffed, but at 85, most get around 2800 non crit 5300 crit while trying to heal 37-38khp buffed on 5-6k quadding mobs, it doesn't help all that much.
Only 6.7k average crit with a crit rate that lets you crit every third spell! Oh god the horror! Whats the cast time on that spell again, 1.8 seconds? Yeah thats a real terrible spell all right. Seriously find me a ranger heal in EQs past that does more then that compared to how much hp you had. (example: 5 crits of this spell can put you at max or near max hp. I can't think of a time in EQ where that wasn't true for your heal, based on the hp you had at any given level range) Just don't expect base heal amount to be linear in scaling when they are obviously taking focuses and new aa into account when calculating how much rangers should heal for.
I think I have a better topic then this one: has there EVER been a time in eqs 10 year history when rangers were not complaining about some aspect of their class? If there was, I certainly can't remember it.
"Yea 2400 with 4900 crits is good for 25k or so buffed, but at 85, most get around 2800 non crit 5300 crit while trying to heal 37-38khp buffed on 5-6k quadding mobs, it doesn't help all that much."
Yeah because the mob hits for 5-6k every time, has 100% accuracy, and always gets 4 hits.
....
But thats an interesting statement in itself because it shows what goal your aiming for. You want to be able to function as a main healer, when your a hybrid/designated dps class according to sony? Ridiculous.
Only 6.7k average crit with a crit rate that lets you crit every third spell! Oh god the horror! Whats the cast time on that spell again, 1.8 seconds? Yeah thats a real terrible spell all right. Seriously find me a ranger heal in EQs past that does more then that compared to how much hp you had. (example: 5 crits of this spell can put you at max or near max hp. I can't think of a time in EQ where that wasn't true for your heal, based on the hp you had at any given level range) Just don't expect base heal amount to be linear in scaling when they are obviously taking focuses and new aa into account when calculating how much rangers should heal for.I think I have a better topic then this one: has there EVER been a time in eqs 10 year history when rangers were not complaining about some aspect of their class? If there was, I certainly can't remember it. "Yea 2400 with 4900 crits is good for 25k or so buffed, but at 85, most get around 2800 non crit 5300 crit while trying to heal 37-38khp buffed on 5-6k quadding mobs, it doesn't help all that much." Yeah because the mob hits for 5-6k every time, has 100% accuracy, and always gets 4 hits.....But thats an interesting statement in itself because it shows what goal your aiming for. You want to be able to function as a main healer, when your a hybrid/designated dps class according to sony? Ridiculous.
No the point I was making is that increasing the heal 200 points while increasing our own HP by 10-13k as well as giving mobs higher DPS makes the heal fall behind. Also at no point did I say mobs have 100% accuracy and always hit in quads, so please stop putting words in my mouth, it doesn't make you look good, but 5-6k hitting mobs can and will drop a group geared person 20% at times, have had it happen, in those cases our heals can't help much at all.
Bringing Bst/Ranger heals from 2k to around 2.5k making the average crit around 6.2k with group focus (that 6.7k average was with an 85% top end focus btw) would make it more useful and would not turn us into main healers (and if you think it could you're delusional) and would allow the heal to be used as an inefficient "oh shoot" heal and give us a small chance of surviving something if we get lucky.
