And no, Invis2 was meant to be given to players. There were updated versions of see invis spells and even DMF2 that were created with the See Invis2 component built in. It was pulled before TSS was out of Beta.

Solarra1 wrote:

And no, Invis2 was meant to be given to players. There were updated versions of see invis spells and even DMF2 that were created with the See Invis2 component built in. It was pulled before TSS was out of Beta.

The annoying thing is, right from the off (well, Luclin) there were spells to see SoS'd mobs - but when they finally added them they nerfed the spell! Gurr.

Acumen of Dar Khura

Solarra1 wrote:

And no, Invis2 was meant to be given to players. There were updated versions of see invis spells and even DMF2 that were created with the See Invis2 component built in. It was pulled before TSS was out of Beta.

Eh? See Invis(2) is in game. Invis(2) is not. Not sure why they should have anything to do with each other.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.ht...amp;source=Live

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.ht...amp;source=Live

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.ht...amp;source=Live

Calixto-Combine wrote:

Eh? See Invis(2) is in game. Invis(2) is not.

Invis(2) is certainly in game - rogues get it via SoS, mobs in Crystallos cast it on themselves (ethereal invisibility) and it's available to players on mage-summoned cloaks. There's also a mysterious spell with invis(3) as an effect:

http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumba...=12&slot=-1

Hide           Invisibility(3)
Ethereal Invisibility         Invisibility(2)
Worlu's Windcloak Vanish         Invisibility(2)
Worlu's Windcloak Vanish         Invisibility(2)

Retron wrote:

Calixto-Combine wrote:

Eh? See Invis(2) is in game. Invis(2) is not.

Invis(2) is certainly in game - rogues get it via SoS, mobs in Crystallos cast it on themselves (ethereal invisibility) and it's available to players on mage-summoned cloaks. There's also a mysterious spell with invis(3) as an effect:

http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumba...=12&slot=-1

Hide           Invisibility(3)
Ethereal Invisibility         Invisibility(2)
Worlu's Windcloak Vanish         Invisibility(2)
Worlu's Windcloak Vanish         Invisibility(2)

 

Invis (3) is used by the raiders in Valthun #5: Last Stand Into Eternity.  Back when you could use a see invis aug to see sos mobs, you could actually use two see invis augs and see those mobs.

Retron wrote:

Calixto-Combine wrote:

Eh? See Invis(2) is in game. Invis(2) is not.

Invis(2) is certainly in game - rogues get it via SoS, mobs in Crystallos cast it on themselves (ethereal invisibility) and it's available to players on mage-summoned cloaks. There's also a mysterious spell with invis(3) as an effect:

http://www.antonius-bayle.org/kumba...=12&slot=-1

Hide Invisibility(3)
Ethereal Invisibility Invisibility(2)
Worlu's Windcloak Vanish Invisibility(2)
Worlu's Windcloak Vanish Invisibility(2)

 

Obviously rogues have it, bunch of stuff in SoF, etc. I meant as spells given to players like the person I quoted was suggesting was 'meant' to be which really has nothing to do with the rest of his post.

Though that invis(3) is intriguing. Clearly the code is there.

While you are looking at these effects can i request a change? The overhaste clickys have a HP regen componet. This will not stack with the mana/hp regen clickys like breath of rid...(sp) . Will you consider changing the hp regen to stamina regen on the overhaste? This will fix/kill two birds with one stone. Fixes the stacking issue and gives us a much wanted stamina regen.

Other possibilty is an upgrade to the storm guard line, if you are looking for other effects to install.

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

Skaff wrote:

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

Dysentery wrote:

Circle of Power would be nice.  As far as fun but useless toys go, a faux feign death click that just does a failed FD would be neat.

"Failed" fain death (or the 1% chance FD... it does have a tiny chance to work - it has to be at least 1% chance for the spell effect to work at all) I may be convinced of, but I am still leery of it. Nothing with a  reasonably consistent chance to work is in the plans though.  FD will stay that one old item (it is not likely to get an upgrade, sorry Shaman) and the classes that have Feign Death.

I like that you didn't dismiss the idea. If the 1% success rate cant be made smaller and its still and issue you could the item have a long cast time (like 10-15 seconds), have a recast time, or make it only work when not in combat (this is possible without code change because you cant click fellowship insignia when in combat). or even a combination of all 3.

 

It is done with a "right_click_script".  And I would put a silly message like "What, trying to lay down on the job!"  (this is not a promise to make such an item)

Yes thanks for not entirly dismissing the idea.. I would really apreciate a serious look into something that is more fluff that usaful.. and a humorous script when done would be even better.. especially if anyone could see it. I would be totally ok with that.. Like I stated in other posts.. now since this wouldnt be broken since its totally fluff I would love it to not have a ridculus reuse timer..

side note= now hypothetically speaking if anyone ever does make a clickie FD..(not the total fulff but an actuall fd.. (even one thats 50%failure chance) please make it on a long arse timer... like a minimum 20hours.. that way its not completly game breaking and broken....I really would hate to see a unlimted clickie that is instant cast and usable as often as you can hit the button.. however a decent reuse timer would make it much less an issue..and if quest is hard enough.. wouldnt be that common... and so less likely to be of major impact..  

There was definitely a plan to overhaul the invis system in TSS Beta. It wasn't just See Invis, it was actual Invis as well. The idea was that, going forward, it'd make Invis more "meaningful" again, and you'd have short duration spells to "sneak" through an area as opposed to spells that lasted long enough to run all the way into a zone and back out again before they wore off. One of the issues, though, was that since it was a "going forward"-only thing, it essentially trivialized everything that came beforehand- i.e., you could put on Invis 2 as a wizard and walk right up to Rallos Zek in PoP and sit down next to him and he'd never even notice you were there.

It was ultimately decided that it had more far-reaching implications than the scope of the TSS Beta would be able to tackle, so it was yanked before launch. Which is a shame, IMO, and I'd love to see the experiment return in the future...but, that said, there were a lot of people (Beta testers) that disliked the idea, as well.

secondfred wrote:

Other possibilty is an upgrade to the storm guard line, if you are looking for other effects to install.

ngreth posted in this thread that only one line of DS is being continued. so no storm guard upgrade.

If I can make a suggestion: 

The Malarian Flesh Girdle is getting "Salik's Expansive Mind" as a clicky. 

The Ghostly Whisper Earring has the slightly superior "Ellowind's Expansive Mind" clicky. 

I understand Malarian is a tier1 raid and Bimbilicus is a tier 2 raid, but at the same time the Malarian is at least as hard as Bimbilicus.

Rahzeael_ wrote:

There was definitely a plan to overhaul the invis system in TSS Beta. It wasn't just See Invis, it was actual Invis as well. The idea was that, going forward, it'd make Invis more "meaningful" again, and you'd have short duration spells to "sneak" through an area as opposed to spells that lasted long enough to run all the way into a zone and back out again before they wore off. One of the issues, though, was that since it was a "going forward"-only thing, it essentially trivialized everything that came beforehand- i.e., you could put on Invis 2 as a wizard and walk right up to Rallos Zek in PoP and sit down next to him and he'd never even notice you were there.

It was ultimately decided that it had more far-reaching implications than the scope of the TSS Beta would be able to tackle, so it was yanked before launch. Which is a shame, IMO, and I'd love to see the experiment return in the future...but, that said, there were a lot of people (Beta testers) that disliked the idea, as well.

The bold is why I asked now.  The rate the expansion hp gains are going old content is trivialized pretty fast.  The only thing I can see being an issue is Tower trash (if the raid had current rogue  sos, you could skip it all)

Rasper_Helpdesk wrote:

Rahzeael_ wrote:

There was definitely a plan to overhaul the invis system in TSS Beta. It wasn't just See Invis, it was actual Invis as well. The idea was that, going forward, it'd make Invis more "meaningful" again, and you'd have short duration spells to "sneak" through an area as opposed to spells that lasted long enough to run all the way into a zone and back out again before they wore off. One of the issues, though, was that since it was a "going forward"-only thing, it essentially trivialized everything that came beforehand- i.e., you could put on Invis 2 as a wizard and walk right up to Rallos Zek in PoP and sit down next to him and he'd never even notice you were there.

It was ultimately decided that it had more far-reaching implications than the scope of the TSS Beta would be able to tackle, so it was yanked before launch. Which is a shame, IMO, and I'd love to see the experiment return in the future...but, that said, there were a lot of people (Beta testers) that disliked the idea, as well.

The bold is why I asked now.  The rate the expansion hp gains are going old content is trivialized pretty fast.  The only thing I can see being an issue is Tower trash (if the raid had current rogue  sos, you could skip it all)

Nothing one database query couldn't fix.

Wow so top group tier SoF group gear clickies are the same as Top group tier SoD clickies? Meh.

MrMr wrote:

Eckish wrote:

I'm a little disappointed that I won't be able to upgrade any of my group level clickies.

My Crystallos list is:

Frozen Belt of the North - AC/Resists - Chaotic Ward
Cloudburst Chainmail Mantle - Overhaste - Taelosian Guard
Lavastone Visor - HP - Form of Endurance IV

Icy Cinch of Hope - Mana - Maelin's Meditation
Crystal-Adorned Cloak - Mana Regen - Reyfin's Random Musings

None of these are upgraded on the group level of the list posted.  I'm sure that the other clickies are in a similar boat, but as I don't use them, I didn't list the group counterparts in Crystallos.  The top level group clickies for this expansion should have contained at least:

AC/Resists - Unliving Ward
Overhaste - Ancient Power
HP - Form of Endurance V
Mana - Reyfin's Racing Thoughts
Mana Regen - Chaotic Enlightenment

 

Well the main purpose was to add clickies to the gear not upgrade it, it was a job who got a short amount of time allocated and likely done in haste, yes the group gear i use could use an upgrade form crystallos but just the fact that i can remove 8 items from my bags will make me happy.

I'd be more than happy to wait longer for a job done right.  Don't get me wrong.  It's not that I don't appreciate the effort.  But with a yearly expansion, everyone at every level of progression should be getting upgrades across the board.

Can you please tell me my "Living Crystal Beads" arent listed for a clicky but "Living Crystal Ring" and "Living Crystal Shard" each get one? I mean the ring has mana regen clicky but a caster only neck doesnt? Hopefully this was just an oversight. Other then that thanks for your hard work.

Tilrae

Eckish wrote:

MrMr wrote:

Eckish wrote:

I'm a little disappointed that I won't be able to upgrade any of my group level clickies.

My Crystallos list is:

Frozen Belt of the North - AC/Resists - Chaotic Ward
Cloudburst Chainmail Mantle - Overhaste - Taelosian Guard
Lavastone Visor - HP - Form of Endurance IV

Icy Cinch of Hope - Mana - Maelin's Meditation
Crystal-Adorned Cloak - Mana Regen - Reyfin's Random Musings

None of these are upgraded on the group level of the list posted.  I'm sure that the other clickies are in a similar boat, but as I don't use them, I didn't list the group counterparts in Crystallos.  The top level group clickies for this expansion should have contained at least:

AC/Resists - Unliving Ward
Overhaste - Ancient Power
HP - Form of Endurance V
Mana - Reyfin's Racing Thoughts
Mana Regen - Chaotic Enlightenment

 

Well the main purpose was to add clickies to the gear not upgrade it, it was a job who got a short amount of time allocated and likely done in haste, yes the group gear i use could use an upgrade form crystallos but just the fact that i can remove 8 items from my bags will make me happy.

I'd be more than happy to wait longer for a job done right.  Don't get me wrong.  It's not that I don't appreciate the effort.  But with a yearly expansion, everyone at every level of progression should be getting upgrades across the board.

I pointed out earlier how group gear not receiving upgrades as often as raid gear made sense due to scaling over time anyway.  Now I'll point out how just because you are willing to wait longer, doesn't mean that there's suddenly more allocated time- they're already working on the next expansion.  This time was 'created' by finishing other things early, which means if the clickies project takes longer than the alloted "finished early" time anyway, that he's eating into other things he needs to do.  Don't get me wrong, I want things done right too, but thus far you've proven neither that the job was done wrong or that the choice of waiting longer would result in any change.

Crovack wrote:

Eckish wrote:

MrMr wrote:

Eckish wrote:

I'm a little disappointed that I won't be able to upgrade any of my group level clickies.

My Crystallos list is:

Frozen Belt of the North - AC/Resists - Chaotic Ward
Cloudburst Chainmail Mantle - Overhaste - Taelosian Guard
Lavastone Visor - HP - Form of Endurance IV

Icy Cinch of Hope - Mana - Maelin's Meditation
Crystal-Adorned Cloak - Mana Regen - Reyfin's Random Musings

None of these are upgraded on the group level of the list posted.  I'm sure that the other clickies are in a similar boat, but as I don't use them, I didn't list the group counterparts in Crystallos.  The top level group clickies for this expansion should have contained at least:

AC/Resists - Unliving Ward
Overhaste - Ancient Power
HP - Form of Endurance V
Mana - Reyfin's Racing Thoughts
Mana Regen - Chaotic Enlightenment

 

Well the main purpose was to add clickies to the gear not upgrade it, it was a job who got a short amount of time allocated and likely done in haste, yes the group gear i use could use an upgrade form crystallos but just the fact that i can remove 8 items from my bags will make me happy.

I'd be more than happy to wait longer for a job done right.  Don't get me wrong.  It's not that I don't appreciate the effort.  But with a yearly expansion, everyone at every level of progression should be getting upgrades across the board.

I pointed out earlier how group gear not receiving upgrades as often as raid gear made sense due to scaling over time anyway.  Now I'll point out how just because you are willing to wait longer, doesn't mean that there's suddenly more allocated time- they're already working on the next expansion.  This time was 'created' by finishing other things early, which means if the clickies project takes longer than the alloted "finished early" time anyway, that he's eating into other things he needs to do.  Don't get me wrong, I want things done right too, but thus far you've proven neither that the job was done wrong or that the choice of waiting longer would result in any change.

Where is it actually written that you have to get upgrades of click's with every expansion?

As I see it, they could easy skip 1 expansion and say: No upgrades on clicks, items will have the clicks from prev expansion.

Another problem that s been spoted is way too many geomantra click are in, most people in my guild are getting 2 or 3 geomantra click on their gear.

For exemple it seems you picked neck as Overhaste click slot, yet the gurwic neck , from rallos return has geomantra.

Probably an oversight.

Smashpumpkin wrote:

Crovack wrote:

Eckish wrote:

MrMr wrote:

Eckish wrote:

I'm a little disappointed that I won't be able to upgrade any of my group level clickies.

My Crystallos list is:

Frozen Belt of the North - AC/Resists - Chaotic Ward
Cloudburst Chainmail Mantle - Overhaste - Taelosian Guard
Lavastone Visor - HP - Form of Endurance IV

Icy Cinch of Hope - Mana - Maelin's Meditation
Crystal-Adorned Cloak - Mana Regen - Reyfin's Random Musings

None of these are upgraded on the group level of the list posted.  I'm sure that the other clickies are in a similar boat, but as I don't use them, I didn't list the group counterparts in Crystallos.  The top level group clickies for this expansion should have contained at least:

AC/Resists - Unliving Ward
Overhaste - Ancient Power
HP - Form of Endurance V
Mana - Reyfin's Racing Thoughts
Mana Regen - Chaotic Enlightenment

 

Well the main purpose was to add clickies to the gear not upgrade it, it was a job who got a short amount of time allocated and likely done in haste, yes the group gear i use could use an upgrade form crystallos but just the fact that i can remove 8 items from my bags will make me happy.

I'd be more than happy to wait longer for a job done right.  Don't get me wrong.  It's not that I don't appreciate the effort.  But with a yearly expansion, everyone at every level of progression should be getting upgrades across the board.

I pointed out earlier how group gear not receiving upgrades as often as raid gear made sense due to scaling over time anyway.  Now I'll point out how just because you are willing to wait longer, doesn't mean that there's suddenly more allocated time- they're already working on the next expansion.  This time was 'created' by finishing other things early, which means if the clickies project takes longer than the alloted "finished early" time anyway, that he's eating into other things he needs to do.  Don't get me wrong, I want things done right too, but thus far you've proven neither that the job was done wrong or that the choice of waiting longer would result in any change.

Where is it actually written that you have to get upgrades of click's with every expansion?

As I see it, they could easy skip 1 expansion and say: No upgrades on clicks, items will have the clicks from prev expansion.

 

It's not written anywhere.  However, it's plain that the customers would like yearly upgrades.  This is not about creating more bag space as some of you are trying to spin it, this issue is about laying out reasonable upgrade paths.  This is a major reason we play the game.

As I see it, they could easily increase the power of any given click by 20% so we do not have to potentially wait TWO YEARS to get a minor upgrade on a feature we all know and love. 

First thing I do when seeing a new item is glance at its ac/hp/mana.  Second...does it have a click and how cool is it.  Clickies are the 'fun' feature of the game.  Don't make us wait two years to get new ones.

Mole

Gawd.  Let it go. 

SoD has seen such a huge upgrade overall on equipment, augs, weapons, and ease of aquiring them.  An upgrade to the clicky effects is not needed and will not be meaningfully missed.

Yes, they needed to be added to the items, but an upgraded effect on them is not necissary.  Sure it would be nice, but it's really not a meaningful issue.

.

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

Nilwean-CD wrote:

I don't think that the Breath of Atathus line is really that popular, would have loved to see the Prismatic Ward line on priest/caster ranges instead. (Or even on another slot).

 

 

I think I would rather put it on earring or ring for casters/priests.

I had gotten indication from players that saves were useless, so did not bother placing it, figuring casters should just avoid getting hit and not need AC.  That said, It can be considered for the future.  Not sure if I will be able to re-address SoD.

Today I read the clicky list in Rasper's Repository, and it doesn't show Prismatic Ward line for healer or priest or all/all. I hope the webside is wrong. QQ http://home.comcast.net/~mathadon/G...D/Clickies.html

secondfred wrote:

While you are looking at these effects can i request a change? The overhaste clickys have a HP regen componet. This will not stack with the mana/hp regen clickys like breath of rid...(sp) . Will you consider changing the hp regen to stamina regen on the overhaste? This will fix/kill two birds with one stone. Fixes the stacking issue and gives us a much wanted stamina regen.

Other possibilty is an upgrade to the storm guard line, if you are looking for other effects to install.

Was done before I made this post.  The HP regen got moved to slot 4, where I am sure it conflicts with something else, but no longer conflicts with many of the other clicks.

Mole wrote:

Smashpumpkin wrote:

Crovack wrote:

Eckish wrote:

MrMr wrote:

Eckish wrote:

I'm a little disappointed that I won't be able to upgrade any of my group level clickies.

My Crystallos list is:

Frozen Belt of the North - AC/Resists - Chaotic Ward
Cloudburst Chainmail Mantle - Overhaste - Taelosian Guard
Lavastone Visor - HP - Form of Endurance IV

Icy Cinch of Hope - Mana - Maelin's Meditation
Crystal-Adorned Cloak - Mana Regen - Reyfin's Random Musings

None of these are upgraded on the group level of the list posted.  I'm sure that the other clickies are in a similar boat, but as I don't use them, I didn't list the group counterparts in Crystallos.  The top level group clickies for this expansion should have contained at least:

AC/Resists - Unliving Ward
Overhaste - Ancient Power
HP - Form of Endurance V
Mana - Reyfin's Racing Thoughts
Mana Regen - Chaotic Enlightenment

 

Well the main purpose was to add clickies to the gear not upgrade it, it was a job who got a short amount of time allocated and likely done in haste, yes the group gear i use could use an upgrade form crystallos but just the fact that i can remove 8 items from my bags will make me happy.

I'd be more than happy to wait longer for a job done right.  Don't get me wrong.  It's not that I don't appreciate the effort.  But with a yearly expansion, everyone at every level of progression should be getting upgrades across the board.

I pointed out earlier how group gear not receiving upgrades as often as raid gear made sense due to scaling over time anyway.  Now I'll point out how just because you are willing to wait longer, doesn't mean that there's suddenly more allocated time- they're already working on the next expansion.  This time was 'created' by finishing other things early, which means if the clickies project takes longer than the alloted "finished early" time anyway, that he's eating into other things he needs to do.  Don't get me wrong, I want things done right too, but thus far you've proven neither that the job was done wrong or that the choice of waiting longer would result in any change.

Where is it actually written that you have to get upgrades of click's with every expansion?

As I see it, they could easy skip 1 expansion and say: No upgrades on clicks, items will have the clicks from prev expansion.

 

It's not written anywhere.  However, it's plain that the customers would like yearly upgrades.  This is not about creating more bag space as some of you are trying to spin it, this issue is about laying out reasonable upgrade paths.  This is a major reason we play the game.

As I see it, they could easily increase the power of any given click by 20% so we do not have to potentially wait TWO YEARS to get a minor upgrade on a feature we all know and love. 

First thing I do when seeing a new item is glance at its ac/hp/mana.  Second...does it have a click and how cool is it.  Clickies are the 'fun' feature of the game.  Don't make us wait two years to get new ones.

 

Mole

 

It isn't written anywhere that we single groupers even get clickies every expansion. As a matter of fact, the first expansion that clickies of this nature with such variety became available in current content was last expansion and then only in a keyed zone.

Additionally, some of these clickies have a upper limits to their effects. Overhaste is one example. Not only is the upper limit of overhaste 25% but overhaste is one of the hallmarks of the bard class. Because of that, not even raiders are likely to ever see a 25% overhaste clicky, let alone us. This is one effect that cannot be upgraded indefinately and cannot even be allowed to get near its upper limit.

gcubed wrote:

 

Additionally, some of these clickies have a upper limits to their effects. Overhaste is one example. Not only is the upper limit of overhaste 25% but overhaste is one of the hallmarks of the bard class. Because of that, not even raiders are likely to ever see a 25% overhaste clicky, let alone us. This is one effect that cannot be upgraded indefinately and cannot even be allowed to get near its upper limit.

 

As more people quit due to the game being too haaaaaaaaard, having higher overhaste % clickies will allow more flexibility with group makeup in raids.

Grrrrf wrote:

Another problem that s been spoted is way too many geomantra click are in, most people in my guild are getting 2 or 3 geomantra click on their gear.

For exemple it seems you picked neck as Overhaste click slot, yet the gurwic neck , from rallos return has geomantra.

Probably an oversight.

Overhaste is fingers first, then neck (at least in this incarnation)

ALSO  Overhaste is **ONLY** going in the "upgrade" tiers. 

Geomantra is ears/neck

Geomantra was placed "after" overhaste... so if you see Geomantra in a spot, it means something was not already in that slot.  It never "replaces" anything... it only goes in an "open" slot.

Yes, There was no upgrade in Clicks for many tiers of group SoD gear over group SoF Gear.

Here is a typical example of what it looked like:

SoD Tier    SoF Tier
                 Group 1
Group 1     Group 2
Group 2-3 Group 3
Group 4-5 Group 4
Raid 1       Raid 1-2
Raid 2-3    Raid 3-4
Raid 4-4.5

(of course with no raid 4.5 gear items available, you won't see that one, but it is how the plan went)

It is because we do NOT want the group clicks catching the raid clicks.  (this specific example is Form of Defense)

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

secondfred wrote:

While you are looking at these effects can i request a change? The overhaste clickys have a HP regen componet. This will not stack with the mana/hp regen clickys like breath of rid...(sp) . Will you consider changing the hp regen to stamina regen on the overhaste? This will fix/kill two birds with one stone. Fixes the stacking issue and gives us a much wanted stamina regen.

Other possibilty is an upgrade to the storm guard line, if you are looking for other effects to install.

Was done before I made this post.  The HP regen got moved to slot 4, where I am sure it conflicts with something else, but no longer conflicts with many of the other clicks.

slot 4, hmm.

Troll illusion, necro hot (shadowbound), various necro and chanter dots.  Guess we'll see how it plays out.

Also to echo others, Thank You for doing this!  No matter what slots you chose someone would complain, may not be exactly the same slots I'd have chosen but you've been very generous!

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

Yes, There was no upgrade in Clicks for many tiers of group SoD gear over group SoF Gear.

Here is a typical example of what it looked like:

SoD Tier    SoF Tier
                 Group 1
Group 1     Group 2
Group 2-3 Group 3
Group 4-5 Group 4
Raid 1       Raid 1-2
Raid 2-3    Raid 3-4
Raid 4-4.5

(of course with no raid 4.5 gear items available, you won't see that one, but it is how the plan went)

It is because we do NOT want the group clicks catching the raid clicks.  (this specific example is Form of Defense)

Well if you do

SoD Tier    SoF Tier
                 Group 1
Group 1    Group 2
Group 2    Group 3
Group 3    Group 4
Group 4-5 Raid 1-2
Raid 1-2    Raid 3-4
Raid 3-4-4.5

All people will get an upgrate and all people is going to be happy, but I guess it will be too easy (:

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

It is because we do NOT want the group clicks catching the raid clicks.  (this specific example is Form of Defense)

It's quite interesting, this whole balance thing. The charts below show white for obsolete clicks, yellow for SoD-acquirable group clicks and green for SoD-acquirable raid clicks.

For Form of Defense, here's a list of when each rank became available:

And for the ever popular big mana / small HP regen line:

¹ - Available on a belt from an MPG group trial in OoW; not included in "group" as it was targetted at raiders at the time.

Pavo_FU wrote:

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

Yes, There was no upgrade in Clicks for many tiers of group SoD gear over group SoF Gear.

Here is a typical example of what it looked like:

SoD Tier    SoF Tier
                 Group 1
Group 1     Group 2
Group 2-3 Group 3
Group 4-5 Group 4
Raid 1       Raid 1-2
Raid 2-3    Raid 3-4
Raid 4-4.5

(of course with no raid 4.5 gear items available, you won't see that one, but it is how the plan went)

It is because we do NOT want the group clicks catching the raid clicks.  (this specific example is Form of Defense)

Well if you do

SoD Tier    SoF Tier
                 Group 1
Group 1    Group 2
Group 2    Group 3
Group 3    Group 4
Group 4-5 Raid 1-2
Raid 1-2    Raid 3-4
Raid 3-4-4.5

All people will get an upgrate and all people is going to be happy, but I guess it will be too easy (:

 

 

Exactly Pavo!

Ngreth,

Why can't groupers 'catch up' to raiders?  I am NOT talking about end game raids, but I using your example of Form of Defense, the version IV has been available to raiders since 2005 (4 years!).  Is'nt it time that groupers can exceed a 4 year old raid click? 

Using historical data, raiders have recieved an upgrade to FoD each year going back to 2004.  What is wrong with giving groups an upgrade each year especially considering the move to yearly expansions?  A group level FoD V click would still be two generations behind the raid version. 

Going forward, how many generations behind are groupers supposed to be?  Why is three the 'right' answer when for the last two years we have been two generations behind.  Groups are not only NOT catching up, we will be falling BEHIND by three generations with the next patch.

Mole

Areosea wrote:

Can you please tell me my "Living Crystal Beads" arent listed for a clicky but "Living Crystal Ring" and "Living Crystal Shard" each get one? I mean the ring has mana regen clicky but a caster only neck doesnt? Hopefully this was just an oversight. Other then that thanks for your hard work.

 

Tilrae

if you look at the list closely you'll see that very few necks have clicks. shoulders also don't have much. In group content there are no clicks on necks backs or shoulders for casters and raid gear follows that pattern very closely with just a few exceptions.

highly doubt there is an oversight here.

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

secondfred wrote:

While you are looking at these effects can i request a change? The overhaste clickys have a HP regen componet. This will not stack with the mana/hp regen clickys like breath of rid...(sp) . Will you consider changing the hp regen to stamina regen on the overhaste? This will fix/kill two birds with one stone. Fixes the stacking issue and gives us a much wanted stamina regen.

Other possibilty is an upgrade to the storm guard line, if you are looking for other effects to install.

Was done before I made this post.  The HP regen got moved to slot 4, where I am sure it conflicts with something else, but no longer conflicts with many of the other clicks.

Whoot thanks, just did a quick check . It does not seem to conflict there with any of my current clicky's or the normal buffs i get.

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

Grrrrf wrote:

Another problem that s been spoted is way too many geomantra click are in, most people in my guild are getting 2 or 3 geomantra click on their gear.

For exemple it seems you picked neck as Overhaste click slot, yet the gurwic neck , from rallos return has geomantra.

Probably an oversight.

Overhaste is fingers first, then neck (at least in this incarnation)

ALSO  Overhaste is **ONLY** going in the "upgrade" tiers. 

Geomantra is ears/neck

Geomantra was placed "after" overhaste... so if you see Geomantra in a spot, it means something was not already in that slot.  It never "replaces" anything... it only goes in an "open" slot.

ok fair enough, thanks

Still is too many geomantra click and no enough OH click (which is very popular), gurwic torque would have been a good candidate for it.

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

Hulkling wrote:

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

fix invis not likley, but posible.  Random invis more likely.

My thoughts on Invis (for future refernce!): 

Its doubtful an Invis clicky will be instant cast.  For random invis, "invis about to wear off" comes at the worst times, and you need to click a new potion while still moving through dangerous situations.  In that reguard, its very hard to replace Cloudy Potions, which are insta-cast. 

Fixed Invis, on the other hand, is still quite useful even with a longer-than-normal cast time.  Plus the duration doesn't have to be super long either to keep it useful.

It is something I would consider on a charged item, but not an infinite charge item.  The "random" invis on the other hand, I could see on on infinite charge item, because it is not the "guaranteed" safety (notwithstanding see invis mobs) of fixed invis.

heh, we already have fixed invis charged items.  Better know as stack of Philter of Concealment

I think Ancient Power should be the group Overhaste these days.

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

secondfred wrote:

While you are looking at these effects can i request a change? The overhaste clickys have a HP regen componet. This will not stack with the mana/hp regen clickys like breath of rid...(sp) . Will you consider changing the hp regen to stamina regen on the overhaste? This will fix/kill two birds with one stone. Fixes the stacking issue and gives us a much wanted stamina regen.

Other possibilty is an upgrade to the storm guard line, if you are looking for other effects to install.

Was done before I made this post.  The HP regen got moved to slot 4, where I am sure it conflicts with something else, but no longer conflicts with many of the other clicks.

Slot 4 is bad. Numerous dots that mobs cast on us use that, and will now overwrite our clickies.

Mole wrote:

Pavo_FU wrote:

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

Yes, There was no upgrade in Clicks for many tiers of group SoD gear over group SoF Gear.

Here is a typical example of what it looked like:

SoD Tier    SoF Tier
                 Group 1
Group 1     Group 2
Group 2-3 Group 3
Group 4-5 Group 4
Raid 1       Raid 1-2
Raid 2-3    Raid 3-4
Raid 4-4.5

(of course with no raid 4.5 gear items available, you won't see that one, but it is how the plan went)

It is because we do NOT want the group clicks catching the raid clicks.  (this specific example is Form of Defense)

Well if you do

SoD Tier    SoF Tier
                 Group 1
Group 1    Group 2
Group 2    Group 3
Group 3    Group 4
Group 4-5 Raid 1-2
Raid 1-2    Raid 3-4
Raid 3-4-4.5

All people will get an upgrate and all people is going to be happy, but I guess it will be too easy (:

 

 

Exactly Pavo!

 

Ngreth,

Why can't groupers 'catch up' to raiders?  I am NOT talking about end game raids, but I using your example of Form of Defense, the version IV has been available to raiders since 2005 (4 years!).  Is'nt it time that groupers can exceed a 4 year old raid click? 

Using historical data, raiders have recieved an upgrade to FoD each year going back to 2004.  What is wrong with giving groups an upgrade each year especially considering the move to yearly expansions?  A group level FoD V click would still be two generations behind the raid version. 

Going forward, how many generations behind are groupers supposed to be?  Why is three the 'right' answer when for the last two years we have been two generations behind.  Groups are not only NOT catching up, we will be falling BEHIND by three generations with the next patch.

 

Mole

 

Actually Group gear just went beyond FoD 1 in SoF, oow, don, dod, por, tss, tbs all that was available was fod 1, then in sof fod 2, 3, 4 was put on group gear. So historically speaking, group gear is not falling behind. It was behind & then it was granted some traditional raid focuses.

Hell, I'm happy FoD 4 is available in group gear or i'd still be using my ture earring because I haven't come across raid gear with an fod upgrade yet.

Not to mention, do you have any clue how boring content is with raid gear? This expansion was fairly gimpsauce anyways, but in raid gear it presents no challenge. Upgrading group gear too much means not only raiders complain about the ease of content but groupers will too.

Pavo_FU wrote:

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

Yes, There was no upgrade in Clicks for many tiers of group SoD gear over group SoF Gear.

Here is a typical example of what it looked like:

SoD Tier    SoF Tier
                 Group 1
Group 1     Group 2
Group 2-3 Group 3
Group 4-5 Group 4
Raid 1       Raid 1-2
Raid 2-3    Raid 3-4
Raid 4-4.5

(of course with no raid 4.5 gear items available, you won't see that one, but it is how the plan went)

It is because we do NOT want the group clicks catching the raid clicks.  (this specific example is Form of Defense)

Well if you do

SoD Tier    SoF Tier
                 Group 1
Group 1    Group 2
Group 2    Group 3
Group 3    Group 4
Group 4-5 Raid 1-2
Raid 1-2    Raid 3-4
Raid 3-4-4.5

All people will get an upgrate and all people is going to be happy, but I guess it will be too easy (:

 

 

Or group 2-3 or group 3-4 instead of group 4-5

From what I can tell, for the most part the clickies are group group group raid raid raid. Is there a reason the mana regen ones went group group raid group raid raid?

Tanise wrote:

From what I can tell, for the most part the clickies are group group group raid raid raid. Is there a reason the mana regen ones went group group raid group raid raid?

Mana regen is sorta 2 lines.  One with more hp regen than the other which is available to the melee types, the other is available to caster types.

Tanise wrote

Not to mention, do you have any clue how boring content is with raid gear? This expansion was fairly gimpsauce anyways, but in raid gear it presents no challenge. Upgrading group gear too much means not only raiders complain about the ease of content but groupers will too.

That after all is a matter of tuning the content to the players gear, you can give group gear 2k hp mana and 1k ac as long as you provide a way to gear up and tune the content for players with that kind of stats.

Then yes i can live with that being jumped a year at lest the clicks get on the gear.

Rasper_Helpdesk wrote:

Tanise wrote:

From what I can tell, for the most part the clickies are group group group raid raid raid. Is there a reason the mana regen ones went group group raid group raid raid?

Mana regen is sorta 2 lines.  One with more hp regen than the other which is available to the melee types, the other is available to caster types.

True, but does anyone beyond shaman care about hp regen? Maybe it's just me being a tank, when I'm being hit for 6k by mobs, I'm not really caring much about 6 or 8 hp regen.

Tanise wrote:

Rasper_Helpdesk wrote:

Tanise wrote:

From what I can tell, for the most part the clickies are group group group raid raid raid. Is there a reason the mana regen ones went group group raid group raid raid?

Mana regen is sorta 2 lines.  One with more hp regen than the other which is available to the melee types, the other is available to caster types.

True, but does anyone beyond shaman care about hp regen? Maybe it's just me being a tank, when I'm being hit for 6k by mobs, I'm not really caring much about 6 or 8 hp regen.

Not me, I couldn't care less about the hp regen on Knowledge of the Past.  And as a raiding druid doing Crystallos, I'll continue using a bagged clicky and wearing group gear, because the clickies I'll be wearing on my SoD group gear are inferior to raid gear I've outgrown.

Itaru-Nameless wrote:

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

secondfred wrote:

While you are looking at these effects can i request a change? The overhaste clickys have a HP regen componet. This will not stack with the mana/hp regen clickys like breath of rid...(sp) . Will you consider changing the hp regen to stamina regen on the overhaste? This will fix/kill two birds with one stone. Fixes the stacking issue and gives us a much wanted stamina regen.

Other possibilty is an upgrade to the storm guard line, if you are looking for other effects to install.

Was done before I made this post.  The HP regen got moved to slot 4, where I am sure it conflicts with something else, but no longer conflicts with many of the other clicks.

Slot 4 is bad. Numerous dots that mobs cast on us use that, and will now overwrite our clickies.

Not lots, but enough that it could possibly be annoying.  We'll have to see I guess.

To bring to Attention Item was Missed ,unless it was suppose to be missed which is rather Foolish if your Giving Most Raid item Clickies.

From Fos Raid theme kurns 1

Thersith's Dragon Scale Cloak

MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE
Slot: BACK
AC: 76
Skill Add DMG: Backstab +15
STR: +36+7 DEX: +42+4 STA: +30+3 CHA: +9+4 WIS: +45+3 INT: +30+3 AGI: +18+1 HP: +795 MANA: +780 ENDUR: +780
SV FIRE: +50 SV DISEASE: +25 SV COLD: +65 SV MAGIC: +45 SV POISON: +40
Shielding: +6% Avoidance: +12 Accuracy: +10 Stun Resist: +4% DoT Shielding: +5% Attack: +35 HP Regen +4 Mana Regeneration: +1 Haste: +45% Damage Shield: +3 Clairvoyance: +4 Spell Damage: +4 Damage Shield Mitigation: +1 Heal Amount: +6
Required level of 80.
Focus: Korshawn's Benevolent Extension VII
WT: 0.8 Size: MEDIUM
Class: WAR PAL RNG SHD MNK BRD ROG BST BER

If you are Doing Most of Back Slots As Damage Shield Clicky .Shouldnt this item fall under the lines of --Illusionary Spikes (+30 DS)--  since Fos and Kith are about same in progression --Illusionary Spikes (+30 DS)-- same as
Laarthik's Cape from Bahgresh for Melee/Hybrrd which is kith Theme

Damage Shield


--Vengeful Guard (+20 DS)--


Marauder Bloodmantle from Crystalline Sorcidont in Korascian Warrens for Tank

Dakkilon Pridemantle from Crystalline Pyrodont in Korascian Warrens for DPS

Witherskin Cloak from Grg`nok in Korafax for Melee

Warsmasher Cloak from Bazu Warsmasher in Korafax for Hybrid


--Illusionary Spikes (+30 DS)--


Laarthik's Cape from Bahgresh for Melee/Hybrrd


--Illusionary Spikes (+35 DS)--


Dark-Ringed Cape from Pallorax the Soul Slayer for Tank

Acolyte's Mentation Cloak from Mindshear Avatar for DPS


--Illusionary Spikes (+40 DS)--


Fleshwrap Cloak of Discord from Sacrifice for Melee

Dreadskin Cape from The Mindblight for Hybrid

Hatsee wrote:

Itaru-Nameless wrote:

Dev-Ngreth wrote:

secondfred wrote:

While you are looking at these effects can i request a change? The overhaste clickys have a HP regen componet. This will not stack with the mana/hp regen clickys like breath of rid...(sp) . Will you consider changing the hp regen to stamina regen on the overhaste? This will fix/kill two birds with one stone. Fixes the stacking issue and gives us a much wanted stamina regen.

Other possibilty is an upgrade to the storm guard line, if you are looking for other effects to install.

Was done before I made this post.  The HP regen got moved to slot 4, where I am sure it conflicts with something else, but no longer conflicts with many of the other clicks.

Slot 4 is bad. Numerous dots that mobs cast on us use that, and will now overwrite our clickies.

Not lots, but enough that it could possibly be annoying.  We'll have to see I guess.

It's not that many. From a quick glance over it, the only quasi-modern places you'll lose it are Venom Lord Ksathrax, Bloody Kithicor, Bloodmoon Keep, two fights in Mansion, the Sandkeep raid (which uses an MPG-era AE), and Sothgar's Attendants.

Some older stuff will overwrite it too, like Vulak, Quarm/Fabled Quarm, a few fights in Ssra, and the Demi AEs if you don't have blockers. But this really doesn't look like a bad place to put it at all if it makes the stacking work in 98% of places.

chaotic bloodthirst band (Tower level ring) has a Form of Defense cast time of 3.5...

really? 3.5? so we're treading our merry way to the OoW expansion for click timers? that was the last time there was a tank item with FOD that had such a long cast time.
i mean, i get that you wanted to steer clear of instant cast clicks - but 3.5? for an AC click?
the DS clicks on cloaks is 1.0 - was there a specific logic and intent to the cast time on FOD? or was it randomly assigned?