Please remove the 2 hour MPG trials lockout timers. Returning and new characters still like to do these for the resist cap increase. With the lockout removed, you could knock these out in one play session instead of dragging people into old content 6 nights in a row. No one farms these anymore so there really isn't a need for the lockout timer.
these are all soloable now except for subversion who cares.
Zoycite wrote:
Soloable by what classes, character levels, and gear levels? Just because it's soloable to you, doesn't mean it is for others.
whether they are solo'able or not doesn't matter. its still a bit odd to have a 2 hour lockout if you attempt or win another trial. was a good time sink back in omens to make the expansion last longer but not really needed now.
that's a lot of loot to just unlock like that. you got some justification other than "i need the flags" ?
FennyX wrote:
not saying they should do it, but what loot do you speak of? theres better stuff dropping thats tradeable now for the most part.
Umm, the loot is 4 years old, no drop, not relevant to modern content, and you can purchase equivalent or better cheaply in the bazaar. Are you honestly worried about this loot unbalancing the game or being farmed non-stop? As for justification, removing a no longer needed time sink and improving the game sounds like a good thing to me. A group of people who need the trials should be able to just go and knock em' out one after the other. These trials are still worth doing for every toon.
Terrible reasoning to not remove the lockout on the group trials...
Why? Old raid content with severely outdated loot still have lockouts. If you unlock one thing there'll be no reason not to unlock everything.
Could you imagine the horror of flooding a server with gear slightly inferior to Oceangreen drops? It would be madness!
Dysentery wrote:
And slightly inferior to Elegant Defiant gear that drops like candy in a ton of zones. Silly arguement, I agree. They should be removed, along with Ldon timers.
Why should it be Changed?
According to Some because the loot is Worthless but the "OTHER" reward isn't. Therefore doing them obviously isn't "worthless"
Therefore why should it be changed?
Because some say so. that is a terrible reason to "change" reality.
I don't care that the loot has been "surpassed" The lockout should remain. just like it does for alot of things.
Arlakis
Arlakis wrote:
Why should it be Changed?According to Some because the loot is Worthless but the "OTHER" reward isn't. Therefore doing them obviously isn't "worthless"Therefore why should it be changed?Because some say so. that is a terrible reason to "change" reality.I don't care that the loot has been "surpassed" The lockout should remain. just like it does for alot of things.Arlakis
Arlakis, is this you?
I mean just because something was done just so in the old days, doesnt mean we still have to do them now if it is a mistake
**Removed image with inappropriate language**
Damion_KB wrote:
Arlakis wrote:Why should it be Changed?According to Some because the loot is Worthless but the "OTHER" reward isn't. Therefore doing them obviously isn't "worthless"Therefore why should it be changed?Because some say so. that is a terrible reason to "change" reality.I don't care that the loot has been "surpassed" The lockout should remain. just like it does for alot of things.ArlakisArlakis, is this you?I mean just because something was done just so in the old days, doesnt mean we still have to do them now if it is a mistake **Removed image with inappropriate language**
The only reason it should be changed is if it was broken when released. the loot at the time was = to time loot. The lock out was intentional to KEEP people from doing them one after another.
therefore my conclusion is that it wasn't a mistake. I guess they should unlock all those old DoN AA based on what people want here. All it takes is time but I'm not willing to spend the time. Well then you don't get WHATEVER.
Well I'm no good in baseball as a catcher so I need a glove 5 times bigger then everyone else.
Either Do the mission as intended. (NOTE) People are stating they are "soloing" them Guess what you can do that get 2 other in your group they shouldn't even have to Zone in.*** Sorry I don't feel a great deal of pity for thiose unwilling to do stuff.
*** Actually I do think it takes 3 in zone to begin them. Oh well. Can invis run people if you have to.
Malleria wrote:
Threadstarter said resist caps, so I'm inclined to think he means the group trials. Which has loot that you probably could not give away if you tried.
This is not the same as removing the dz lockout for a raid. Although I'm done with them and probably wont ever go back I don't see the harm in allowing people to knock these out in much less time than it currently takes.
The only reason it should be changed is if it was broken when released. the loot at the time was = to time loot. The lock out was intentional to KEEP people from doing them one after another.therefore my conclusion is that it wasn't a mistake. I guess they should unlock all those old DoN AA based on what people want here. All it takes is time but I'm not willing to spend the time. Well then you don't get WHATEVER.Well I'm no good in baseball as a catcher so I need a glove 5 times bigger then everyone else.Either Do the mission as intended. (NOTE) People are stating they are "soloing" them Guess what you can do that get 2 other in your group they shouldn't even have to Zone in.*** Sorry I don't feel a great deal of pity for thiose unwilling to do stuff.Arlakis *** Actually I do think it takes 3 in zone to begin them. Oh well. Can invis run people if you have to.
I don't recall doing any DoN progression that blocks me from doing another task for several hours, but I finished that a while back so perhaps I'm mistaken.
Did the group/solo progression work that way? I don't believe it did, and even if it did there was a lot to do in the meantime to boost faction etc.
I was referring to the lockout on the group trials.
I don't think Arlakis is aware that the devs have unlocked a ton of raid content including Time. DoN progression has no artificial "you must wait 2 hours before you can progress again" mechanism. You can progress as fast as you can do the missions/tasks/raids. If one mission is locked out, you request a different one and keep progressing.
As for doing them "as intended", we'd all have to go back in time to 2004 to do that. EQ changes and evolves and what was "as intended" one day may be seen as undesirable the next day. Heh, just imagine the uproar on the boards if SoD was released and Time still required a flag to zone in.
The gobal lockouts on all of them is kind of weird... I'm not aware of any raids that do that (likewise with group content). However, I don't really see a reason that it needs to be changed. MPG is not a long run from the nearest port in, you can invis the majority of the way to every trial.
Yeah, would be nice, but highly unnecessary.
Just because I rode the slow boat to Freeport doesn't mean everyone else has to. I support removing the lockout timer on the group trials.
this is a long overdue change needed on MPG group trials. many people would like to max the resist aa and the lockout is just an unnecessary time waster in todays game.
The reason the lockout was there was to C-block people from progressing through the content too fast, since there were only 6 trials total. Now, that content is all unlocked and obsolete, so obviously this is no longer a valid escuse for the timers upon successful completion to remain.
People still need these trials to get their resists up. As mentioned before, I can progress through DON content and raise my resist caps without lock out, why not through these as well?
Artificial hoops are fine to prolong content DURING or JUST AFTER an expansion's relevance. Making people go through 68, 69, 70 spell quest arcs, and lock out timers from OOW is just a plain waste of time that adds to the curve of leveling up alts, or god forbid the 4-5 new people that might have bought EQ in the last few years.
The lenght of the time out does seem to be out of line. Having it lock out all the other trials also seems a bit odd.
If you are going to lock it out, can we reduce the time down to 45 min (like the LDONs) at least?
Then at least you could get them done in 2 or 3 days.
In other words...
My Dad used to beat me when I was a kid so by golly I'm gonna beat my kids too!
My Mom and Dad were Catholic so I'm Catholic too! (or input your relgion here...)
My friend is a Republican so I'm a Republican! (Or input your political preference here...)
I had to do it, so you have to do it!
The lock-out timers were put in as a time-sink to slow down the players so they wouldn't complete the OOW expansion too quickly back when it was current content. I don't think anyone in the entire game is concerned that someone will complete the OOW expansion too quickly NOW!
The lockout timer should be removed.
Wyvernwill wrote:
The gobal lockouts on all of them is kind of weird... I'm not aware of any raids that do that (likewise with group content). However, I don't really see a reason that it needs to be changed. MPG is not a long run from the nearest port in, you can invis the majority of the way to every trial.Yeah, would be nice, but highly unnecessary.
Yeah...because running through that stupidly huge zone and plowing all the SI trash from 6-way to a Projection NPC should definately be followed up by winning the trial, and then having to sit for 1 hour 45 minutes before plowing through the trash to get to the next Projection NPC x 5 times.
Naginto wrote:
Wyvernwill wrote:The gobal lockouts on all of them is kind of weird... I'm not aware of any raids that do that (likewise with group content). However, I don't really see a reason that it needs to be changed. MPG is not a long run from the nearest port in, you can invis the majority of the way to every trial.Yeah, would be nice, but highly unnecessary.Yeah...because running through that stupidly huge zone and plowing all the SI trash from 6-way to a Projection NPC should definately be followed up by winning the trial, and then having to sit for 1 hour 45 minutes before plowing through the trash to get to the next Projection NPC x 5 times.
It's worse if you did 5 of them a while back and don't actually know which one you need anymore.
And at the time, that made sense. You can get equivalent gear elsewhere now with far less effort and no lockouts.Lockouts are a mechanic used to hinder progression in order to extend content, they serve no other purpose. If the content is obsolete, there is no need to artificially constrain it.Remove the lockouts. Oh noes! Group players can get 200 HME gear as fast as they want! The game is going to collapse!
Plebola wrote:
If the content is obsolete, there is no need to artificially constrain it.
QFT!
Then there's always some smartass whom points out that content is not obsolete if players are still attempting it.
But those people are annoying.
I agree that the lockout timers on content older than 3? years should be removed. Including LDoN raids.
And an attitude like yours, sums up why they should stay the way they are. Find something else to do for an hour and a half, come back and go to the next. If you aren't willing to, then I guess they don't really mean that much to you, do they?
Now, you just gave me one more reason not to want to see it changed, just so I know somewhere, you are whining and crying about how much time it takes and how it's ruining your life.
Afterall, you pointed out yourself it's a 15 minute run to a projections. Gee, I didn't realize 20-25 minutes, port out and come back for another 20 minutes at your leisure was such a huge imposition to players these days.
The only reason it should be changed is if it was broken when released. the loot at the time was = to time loot. The lock out was intentional to KEEP people from doing them one after another.therefore my conclusion is that it wasn't a mistake. I guess they should unlock all those old DoN AA based on what people want here. All it takes is time but I'm not willing to spend the time. Well then you don't get WHATEVER.Well I'm no good in baseball as a catcher so I need a glove 5 times bigger then everyone else.Either Do the mission as intended. (NOTE) People are stating they are "soloing" them Guess what you can do that get 2 other in your group they shouldn't even have to Zone in.*** Sorry I don't feel a great deal of pity for thiose unwilling to do stuff. Arlakis *** Actually I do think it takes 3 in zone to begin them. Oh well. Can invis run people if you have to.
correct me if im wrong but don aa's also require the dragon kills to get them. he is talking about removing the timer on tasks that had a lockout on them so progression woulddnt be so fast at that time because , as we know, these tasks nto only raise resists but were required for access to COA, which they are no longer required for unless you want to get a sub lvl 59( i think) toon into the zone. I would think perhaps even a reduction in teh lockout timer wouldnt be so bad.
You must be 69 to actually get keyed for CoA (having to zone into RSS for the signet turn-in), so there is absolutely no point completing the actual keying process, since the zone itself is now required level 68.
The timers were there to prevent them from being over farmed for loot.
That is no longer an issue.
Being able to only have go back and do these once over the course of one night for new / returning people would be nice.
As for DoN, I wouldn't mind seeing the faction adjusted there either. These are the kind of mindless catch up tasks that are too much of a barrior for new returning people. There is 0 challange these at all, it is 100% pure timesink.
Even if the timer for doing the SAME mission didn't change that would be fine. But the timer for doing any mission should be removed.
MPG lockout timers arent that big of a deal. It should only take a max of 3 days to finish them. If you do a proper rotation of trials you can pretty much just take the time doing the plow instead of invising most of the way to the next one. Not that much of a time since considering it takes 25 aa to get 5 ranks of resists normally to increase caps. SO you can compare it to that cept as being extra progression aa's
The lockout was stupid when it was live, it's hella stupid now, all anyone does it for is the AA. Yeah I suppose they could be soloable then you just taskadd, but it still sucks going there to do them, and only being able to do 1 every 2 hours.
Especially with old content, the restriction should be how quickly you can complete the mission, not how much time you can spend doing other things in between lockout timers.
To make the time pass, I recommend clearing from one trial to the other using only kick, shield bash, slam and riposte!
None are soloable by anyone. You must have at least 3 players inside the instance, at the projection, to even start.
Yeah, it's a lot of loot, all inferior to even defiant gear, which everyone in the entire game got handed recently. Honestly, who cares. People use 200HP loot to pick the dirt out of their boots at this stage of the game.
Naginto wrote:Wyvernwill wrote:Yeah...because running through that stupidly huge zone and plowing all the SI trash from 6-way to a Projection NPC should definately be followed up by winning the trial, and then having to sit for 1 hour 45 minutes before plowing through the trash to get to the next Projection NPC x 5 times.And an attitude like yours, sums up why they should stay the way they are. Find something else to do for an hour and a half, come back and go to the next. If you aren't willing to, then I guess they don't really mean that much to you, do they?Now, you just gave me one more reason not to want to see it changed, just so I know somewhere, you are whining and crying about how much time it takes and how it's ruining your life.Afterall, you pointed out yourself it's a 15 minute run to a projections. Gee, I didn't realize 20-25 minutes, port out and come back for another 20 minutes at your leisure was such a huge imposition to players these days.
Wyvernwill wrote:Yeah...because running through that stupidly huge zone and plowing all the SI trash from 6-way to a Projection NPC should definately be followed up by winning the trial, and then having to sit for 1 hour 45 minutes before plowing through the trash to get to the next Projection NPC x 5 times.
Glad to see that my very existance alters your opinion. Actually now that I think of it, you provide more logic for your stance in this reply than in your first comment, since it had none lol.
Completing a group task should not lock out all other associated group tasks. Didn't happen in Don, nor TSS, nor TBS, nor SOF, nor SOD.
Aside from the fact that the specials tab doesn't track which trials you've won, one shouldn't need to spend 1:45 waiting. Fortunately it appears everyone else disagrees with you also.
So Based on the Loot is "worthless" Idea.
So we should Go back to Inktuta and remove it's lockout since the loot is "worthless"?We should do the same for Ikkianz? How about time? How about RSS King and Queen? Challiak and Feratha.
Why can't I instant spawn AoW just to say I have Solo'd him (No clue if I could but I think it'd be quite the go.)
There are many thing I am unable to do due to lockouts in one form or another. the fact that the loot is "worthless" is IMMATERIAL to the discussion. At least if you want to be intellectually honest.
Why can I not insta spawn Vulak? That's all the Lock out is the "respawn" timer of the trials. Is it odd that they have a shared lockout kind of. I'm actually shocked such hasn't been used more often and for the best loot in the group game.
Finish "Meeting Abjourned" and get a 3 day lockout and get your Teir 5 Chest essence. Would have been better then the gimp named that currentl;y guard them.
And I'm not sure but I don't recall a 24/21 lifesap weapon from Defiant.
/shrug
What is the problem with people being able to farm No Trade, instanced, sub-par gear?I would guess that a good bit of the reason such content is unused is specifically the artificial lockouts.And I don't agree that respawn timers and tasks lockouts are equivalent, though it seems fairly obvious you're using hyperbole to emphasize your point.
Wyvernwill wrote:Naginto wrote:Wyvernwill wrote:Yeah...because running through that stupidly huge zone and plowing all the SI trash from 6-way to a Projection NPC should definately be followed up by winning the trial, and then having to sit for 1 hour 45 minutes before plowing through the trash to get to the next Projection NPC x 5 times.And an attitude like yours, sums up why they should stay the way they are. Find something else to do for an hour and a half, come back and go to the next. If you aren't willing to, then I guess they don't really mean that much to you, do they?Now, you just gave me one more reason not to want to see it changed, just so I know somewhere, you are whining and crying about how much time it takes and how it's ruining your life.Afterall, you pointed out yourself it's a 15 minute run to a projections. Gee, I didn't realize 20-25 minutes, port out and come back for another 20 minutes at your leisure was such a huge imposition to players these days.Glad to see that my very existance alters your opinion. Actually now that I think of it, you provide more logic for your stance in this reply than in your first comment, since it had none lol. Completing a group task should not lock out all other associated group tasks. Didn't happen in Don, nor TSS, nor TBS, nor SOF, nor SOD. Aside from the fact that the specials tab doesn't track which trials you've won, one shouldn't need to spend 1:45 waiting. Fortunately it appears everyone else disagrees with you also.
Failure one, It's not a task, it's a dynamic zone. There is a difference.
Failure two, just because another expansion doesn't do something, don't mean it's removed from others that did... DoDh gave 7 pieces of loot per success, but that's never been copied, so I guess the rewards from the zone shall be removed since it's an obvious error. According to your logic, as you present it.
Oh well, continue crying on.
Yumraz wrote:
Then there's always some smartass whom points out that content is not obsolete if players are still attempting it.But those people are annoying.I agree that the lockout timers on content older than 3? years should be removed. Including LDoN raids.
Guess I'll be annoying then.
The primary reason to do the trials was getting the +resist cap bonus. It was the reason I did them 2 years ago, and is still a good reason today. It was annoying to have the lockout timers then, and it's still annoying today! So, why change them now?
P.S. We 1-grouped an LDoN raid last night for fun.
The Devs could give us a choice and let you choose if you want to do the mission to get loot or just do the mission to get the Resist raise.
If you do the mission with loot, you get the lockouts, if you do the mission just for resists, it drops no loot when you're done but you get the Resist raise and no lock out.
As someone who thinks that the MPG group trials were really well designed, difficult when it was released/appropriate level and still does them with all my alts with whoever happens to be lfg or wanting the special aa flags, I would love to see the time lockout on these reduced.
With the typical PUG, they will normally not last longer than 2 hours, so essentially you have to create a new group every time you want to do a trial. I would like to see it changed so that I can get 2 done during that period of time. If you are goal oriented and of appropriate level getting these tasks done in a week is quite a challenge, and then you end up doing missions repeatedly before getting the last couple on your to do list.
I would also like to see text in the AA information box that tells me which trials I have completed or the projection will tell me which I have completed.
I don't care if it has a lockout for winning it or not but like others would like it not to lock me out of all the other trials at the same time. Not a huge deal really but always kind of puzzled me why they would lock you out of all 5 others when you beat one.
You crack me up. I looted a Deadclaw the other day while working on a task for the Bayle's augment. The fact is, MPG group trials are done for the resists. New or returning players need to increase their resists to be more effective at raiding. A 2 hour lockout on doing other group trials doesn't prevent players from completing the group trials, but it sure slows it down.
Gumlakx_Grendelson wrote:
Arlakis wrote:And I'm not sure but I don't recall a 24/21 lifesap weapon from Defiant.You crack me up. I looted a Deadclaw the other day while working on a task for the Bayle's augment. The fact is, MPG group trials are done for the resists. New or returning players need to increase their resists to be more effective at raiding. A 2 hour lockout on doing other group trials doesn't prevent players from completing the group trials, but it sure slows it down.
And that is "DEFIANT"? As in Elegant "defiant" XXXX XXXXX Or Elaborate "Defiant" XXXXX XXXXXX
Nope no defiant in there. So not a defiant weapon. Is it nice and will I keep an eye out for it in the bazaar for my Warrior? YES.
I'm not asking them to be prevented from doing so. And I'm not asking that people be Restricted to level 70 and Only using group gear from that time period.
but As I stated based on "worth" why can I not go kill AoW any time I want. Because there is a lock out (GLOBAL) on that mob. There is a global Lockout for the PARTICIPANTS of the trial. Honestly I am surprised they haven't reused this method to allow hard and yet FAIR. methods to help groups out in other content.
Is it so hard to Scedule an event with a 2 hour lockout? Maybe. Could people /note so they don't have to repeat of course. But people forget.
Lots of things should be done before Asking the Developers Look at NON BROKEN OLD content.
If I recall, let's say you trial A and that locks you out of A for 3 days and B-F for 2 hours. Then if you did trial B 2 hours later, that locks you out trial B for 3 days, but now A, C, D, E, F are reset to 2 hours, so it's not effective at preventing loot from entering anyway.
The 2 hour timer sort of made sense back in the day where it took significant time to get from one trial to another so half of the time passed anyway, but even then that didn't actually added anything to the game. You usually still have to sit by the projections for a good hour or so unless you wiped on the way to the trials.
