This upsets you so much that you are willing to stoop to pot shots at the players? These are real people you do not even know, Noanni. Undergeared, underskilled, underwhelming, insignificant players? Newsflash: avatar raiding guilds are not paying the paychecks of the devs. Heck, the amount they bring in off avatar killing guilds is probably barely enough to pay for lunch each day.
You are hoping that line gets modded?? Why even put it in? To show your disgust with the rest of us 'ignoramous' players that you have to share your game with? LOL.
Ninty percent of the forum posters < yeah, you can toss out numbers; so can we, /rolleyes> are hoping it also involves a vacation. By the looks of your posts, you are taking this game much too seriously and can probably use one. The only thing that keeps most of us coming back to this post is to watch you short circuiting in real life over a game. That, and to make sure that your 200+ angry posts, on one subject, across four threads, doesn't become the one devs feel is prevalent.
Let's re-rail this train. I like the RA and the idea of closing the gap between content. I never, ever thought I'd see the day that trying to form a group for a heroic instance would require so much planning that it takes nearly as long to form a group as it does to run the instance. Illy and dirge? check. Hate transfer? check. Mythicals? check. It's gotten ridiculous. If the RA, spell name changes, and proc nerfs are the first step toward balancing this all out and making EQ2 a game again, I am all for the changes.
Noaani wrote:
Thats because the mob before Varsoon in there is the only non raid mob with 100% smart loot.
100% Master, not 100% smart -- unless it changed very recently. We had three non-Mastered out toons in there (two mentoring) and a master dropped for a class not in the party.
On the larger issue that "Masters should [have] drop[ped] only from raid mobs" ... it would have been a good design decision -- at release. With so much time past, and expectations set, I don't think it's worth changing at this point.
Most of my raiding toons' T8 masters have come from raids (a few from heroic instances). It doesn't bother me in the slightest that wealthy (in-game or RL+RMT) players simply buy Masters and have them with non-raiding characters. What's the big flippin' deal if they make non-raiding content easier? I don't see how it diminished my play experience.
That's the other thing about RAs -- some people think that one/month is opening the floodgates, and is going to ruin balance. News flash: people could full master-out in less than month with some plat or cash. If unlimited Masters/month didn't spoil balance, why is one/month/account going to ruin the next six month's balance?
All the pro RA implementation people consider the following example of why people like me are against the implementation of the current RA.
Thier is a huge benefit from a master exchange merchant. You could take a master of appropriate level or higher and exchange it for the master you need. The developers would not need to limit this feature based on a 30 day time period and could use a much reduced rate. The developers would not need to limit this feature by 1 character per account instead you could get the CHOICE of masters for all your toon and alts as the main cost of the feature is the exchange of masters. The developers could still control the rate of masters by increasing or decreasing the drop rates throughout certain zones or specific type of play. Imagine increasing drops in heroic instances by 10%-15% allowing most named a 15-20% drop rate. Imagaine if the "HOT SPOT" zones included higher drop rates of masters for people who soloed (by 1% for trash and 10% for named). This system would encourage a healthier game by encouraging people to PLAY. whereas the current implementation fails.
The Ra's could of very well been used to promote heroic dungeon crawls and "hot spots". It would of encouraged people who normally feel they have nothing to gain from heroic instances or soloing or PLAYING a reason and an achielvable goal through playing. Instead they removed one of the few goals people have in this game to log on and play. It may seem like nothing to some of the people who just want a free master every month. But in the long run i can garauntee decisions like these will collectively destroy and dwindle the population of people playing, instead of promoting people to play. If a system like this was enabled I wouldn't spend the coin on the broker (not like I have ever seen the 2 masters I need in the last 2 years). I would form or join a group and do a heroic dungeon or go to the current hot spot zone to solo. In the likely hope I could get a master to exchange for a missing master I need (I do not own any loose masters). Instead with the current system I find myself unwilling to log on or play to obtain the last 2 masters I need because to me it is completely pointless, it is to nearly impossible to farm those last 2 masters currently and there is no point in playing when the RA doesn't require me to play. I barely raid and I barely play right now, yet I still like this game. I occasionally log on and just help random pickup groups or people questing. And this decision takes away one of the last few reasons I even play.
Gungo wrote:
Oooh, I like your implementation better. None of this 30-day per toon junk, immediately all of my characters would be fully mastered using all the level 80 garbage masters like Deathward & Sleight of Hand that are available dirt cheap at the moment. And we can all roll Need on every master that drops. Fun!
The one thing I really like about their implementation is timing. It's too late to screw up T8 with respect to masters. The 5 or 6 that everyone is going to get in the next two quarters are no big deal unless you are the guy trying to sell that Ancient Shroud Master 1 for 500P. But what it does is allow for enough time to evaluate the concept without spoiling T9. If another barrier/requirement needs to be added, my assumption is they'll add one. Even if a barrier isn't "needed" per se, I love the sub-quest ideas personally simply because they are immersive. I'd rather work for my Ancient Shroud than get it through entitlements, which will only lead to higher taxes.
Rijacki wrote:Progression means different things to different people. To you, progression may mean better gear dropping. To me, it means more complex or difficult encounters. But even that concept of 'more complex and difficult' mean different things to different people.While I don't disagree with that at all, one thing I will say is that anyone that considers sitting idly by waiting to be good enough to take on an encounter that would otherwise be too hard for them as being "progression", they are simply not worth the time to talk to.Spending time to get upgrades, including spell upgrades, in order to be able to successfully take on the next challenge = progression.Spending time learning an encounter, figuring out a stratigy to kill it, practising that encounter and executing it = progression.Sitting by waiting for the server to hand you upgrades for free so you are able to successfully take on the next challenge = babysitting/charity/lots of other things, of which progression is not one.This thread, and RAs in general, are not about progression. RAs are about handouts, they are about giving things to people that could otherwise not get them. This thread is also about the consiquences of this addition to the game, one of which is the lowering of a progression form as it stands on live servers currently.If you, or anyone else in a guild that raids current expansion content for that matter, considers masters gained via the RA to be actual "progression", I would simply be lost for words. Being handed master level spells/CAs is no more of a progression form than having someone else log in key characters of your raid force in order to be able to kill a mob for the first time. While in each case your character/raid may have become ever so slightly better, that in itself does not mean it is progress.
Rijacki wrote:
Progression means different things to different people. To you, progression may mean better gear dropping. To me, it means more complex or difficult encounters. But even that concept of 'more complex and difficult' mean different things to different people.
While I don't disagree with that at all, one thing I will say is that anyone that considers sitting idly by waiting to be good enough to take on an encounter that would otherwise be too hard for them as being "progression", they are simply not worth the time to talk to.
Spending time to get upgrades, including spell upgrades, in order to be able to successfully take on the next challenge = progression.
Spending time learning an encounter, figuring out a stratigy to kill it, practising that encounter and executing it = progression.
Sitting by waiting for the server to hand you upgrades for free so you are able to successfully take on the next challenge = babysitting/charity/lots of other things, of which progression is not one.
This thread, and RAs in general, are not about progression. RAs are about handouts, they are about giving things to people that could otherwise not get them. This thread is also about the consiquences of this addition to the game, one of which is the lowering of a progression form as it stands on live servers currently.
If you, or anyone else in a guild that raids current expansion content for that matter, considers masters gained via the RA to be actual "progression", I would simply be lost for words. Being handed master level spells/CAs is no more of a progression form than having someone else log in key characters of your raid force in order to be able to kill a mob for the first time. While in each case your character/raid may have become ever so slightly better, that in itself does not mean it is progress.
And I said absolutely nothing about RA being progression in and of itself or even a part of the potential progression.
I'll provide my quote with that word:
"My guess is that there will be roughly the same mix of content (solo, heroic, epic) with balance a lot like it is now, but with the potential for more 'progression' and having the deeper stuff expect more specific masters."
In other words, I actually expect the harder deeper stuff (the Progression) to be more difficult because the devs can expect each class to have master level spells of thus and so specific crucial ability.
Let me repeat again in another way: RA is not the progression. RA has the potential to facilitate harder content in the deeper part of the progression because players will be able to CHOOSE (rather than suffer the whim of RNG) which masters to have in order to min/max more effectively.
RA is NOT progression and I never said it would be.
In my opinion, the number of masters, even right now and never has been, one character has vs another is NOT progression. A character with more masters may have done harder content or they might just have obtained funds elsewise and bought them on the broker. (i.e. my wizard on AB was pretty heavily mastered even pre-DoF.. not because she was doing raid content, because she was making money tradeskilling and buying them).
In my opinion, the specific gear one has isn't even progression because there are alternate ways to obtain specific pieces of gear, even with No Trade tags.
Progression to me is the ability take on harder and more complex challenges and for the content to be harder and more challenging to meet that. Gear and masters merely facilitate the potential to be able to take on the challenges, to progress through the difficulties.
Masters and gear, even now, without being able to do the content, is just for bragging rights. Someone who bought their mythical (or went on any raid where indivuduals were being swapped in and out for specific fights and not actualy participating in the whole) is not "progressing" their character, they're just getting an item to display.
Meerah@Permafrost wrote:
I never thought I'd see the day where non-raiders could purchase near raid quality gear using a shard system. I never thought I'd see the day where a heroic instance boss drops fabled 100% of the time. I never thought I'd see the day when non-raiders are capping their stats.
The reason heroic content is becoming more and more difficult is because it becomes more and more rewarding every single expansion.
The RA will add to this btw, not minimalize it. The heroic content in the next expansion will basically be a six person raid.
Gage wrote:
Which is a comment a lot of people would say applies to THIS expansion.
With current drop rates, the RA still doesn't make it faster to obtain masters than it was in EoF; it seems odd that it would then inherently change how content is balanced.
Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:
Which is a comment a lot of people would say applies to THIS expansion.With current drop rates, the RA still doesn't make it faster to obtain masters than it was in EoF; it seems odd that it would then inherently change how content is balanced.
I must've missed where people got 11 masters of their choosing in EoF.
Yes, I realize heroic zones are hard THIS expansion; that is because the loot for doing heroic content is crazy and almost as good as raid gear.
Gungo wrote:All the pro RA implementation people consider the following example of why people like me are against the implementation of the current RA.Oooh, I like your implementation better. None of this 30-day per toon junk, immediately all of my characters would be fully mastered using all the level 80 garbage masters like Deathward & Sleight of Hand that are available dirt cheap at the moment. And we can all roll Need on every master that drops. Fun! The one thing I really like about their implementation is timing. It's too late to screw up T8 with respect to masters. The 5 or 6 that everyone is going to get in the next two quarters are no big deal unless you are the guy trying to sell that Ancient Shroud Master 1 for 500P. But what it does is allow for enough time to evaluate the concept without spoiling T9. If another barrier/requirement needs to be added, my assumption is they'll add one. Even if a barrier isn't "needed" per se, I love the sub-quest ideas personally simply because they are immersive. I'd rather work for my Ancient Shroud than get it through entitlements, which will only lead to higher taxes.
If your going to be fascecious and ignore my post you might as well not even reply. I did not state instant masters for all. I stated a much reduced rate then 30 days.
Further your post only proves people like you have no answer for players like me who find the current implemenation of the RA's detrimental to my gameplay and how it will obviously be harmful to the health of the game.
If you couldn't get 11 masters in 330 days in EoF I don't know what to say. Bummer, dude.
This still isn't faster. I'm not saying it's perfect, or that I like or dislike it tremendously. It's not a big deal tbh. It's just doesn't make mastering up any faster than it was in T7 so there's no point in continuing to use that argument against it, that's all.
Gage wrote:I must've missed where people got 11 masters of their choosing in EoF.If you couldn't get 11 masters in 330 days in EoF I don't know what to say. Bummer, dude.This still isn't faster. I'm not saying it's perfect, or that I like or dislike it tremendously. It's not a big deal tbh. It's just doesn't make mastering up any faster than it was in T7 so there's no point in continuing to use that argument against it, that's all.
How is it not faster?
You have tons of mobs with near 100% chance at smart loot masters in addition to a free master every 30 days of the 24 month tier cycle.
How could you not master out if you just tried a tiny bit?
Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:Gungo wrote:All the pro RA implementation people consider the following example of why people like me are against the implementation of the current RA.Oooh, I like your implementation better. None of this 30-day per toon junk, immediately all of my characters would be fully mastered using all the level 80 garbage masters like Deathward & Sleight of Hand that are available dirt cheap at the moment. And we can all roll Need on every master that drops. Fun! The one thing I really like about their implementation is timing. It's too late to screw up T8 with respect to masters. The 5 or 6 that everyone is going to get in the next two quarters are no big deal unless you are the guy trying to sell that Ancient Shroud Master 1 for 500P. But what it does is allow for enough time to evaluate the concept without spoiling T9. If another barrier/requirement needs to be added, my assumption is they'll add one. Even if a barrier isn't "needed" per se, I love the sub-quest ideas personally simply because they are immersive. I'd rather work for my Ancient Shroud than get it through entitlements, which will only lead to higher taxes.If your going to be fascecious and ignore my post you might as well not even reply. I did not state instant masters for all. I stated a much reduced rate then 30 days.Further your post only proves people like you have no answer for players like me who find the current implemenation of the RA's detrimental to my gameplay and how it will obviously be harmful to the health of the game.
*Reply to bolded statement* What gameplay would that be?
<snipped>I barely raid and I barely play right now<snipped>
<snipped>
I barely raid and I barely play right now
If you barely play and barely raid, how is it going to have an effect on your "gameplay" at all?
Sorry, but this sounds to me like yet another "Oh noes, the sky is falling" argument.
And no, the sky is not falling.
If you couldn't get 11 masters in 330 days in EoF I don't know what to say. Bummer, dude.This still isn't faster. I'm not saying it's perfect, or that I like or dislike it tremendously. It's not a big deal tbh. It's just doesn't make mastering up any faster than it was in T7 so there's no point in continuing to use that argument against it, that's all.
I'm not sure I know of any player who got 11 masters of their choosing in EoF, for free.
urgthock wrote:
Gungo wrote:If your going to be fascecious and ignore my post you might as well not even reply. I did not state instant masters for all. I stated a much reduced rate then 30 days.Further your post only proves people like you have no answer for players like me who find the current implemenation of the RA's detrimental to my gameplay and how it will obviously be harmful to the health of the game.*Reply to bolded statement* What gameplay would that be?Gungo wrote: I barely raid and I barely play right now If you barely play and barely raid, how is it going to have an effect on your "gameplay" at all?Sorry, but this sounds to me like yet another "Oh noes, the sky is falling" argument.And no, the sky is not falling.
If your going to be fascecious and ignore my post you might as well not even reply. I did not state instant masters for all. I stated a much reduced rate then 30 days.Further your post only proves people like you have no answer for players like me who find the current implemenation of the RA's detrimental to my gameplay and how it will obviously be harmful to the health of the game.
No it sounds more like another poster who feels the need to snip all but the qoute he feels in a post to ignore other players opinions. I included the FULL paragraph that shows my NEGATIVE and detrimental experience with the RA's. But to your answer your question since you clearly coudln't figure it out yourself. If it wasn't easy enough for you to spot this change takes away one of the few reasons I have left to log on and progress myself. There is litterally NO REASON to log on and play with the current implementation of the RA.
Sorry, but to me you sound like another lazy person who uses the "I want something for nothing" argument.
And yes, the current RA is something for nothing.
Your position still has not provided an answer for players like me who find the current implemenation of the RA's detrimental to my gameplay and how it will obviously be harmful to the health of the game.
If a system like this was enabled (talking about master exchange merchant) I wouldn't spend the coin on the broker (not like I have ever seen the 2 masters I need in the last 2 years). I would form or join a group and do a heroic dungeon or go to the current hot spot zone to solo. In the likely hope I could get a master to exchange for a missing master I need (I do not own any loose masters). Instead with the current system I find myself unwilling to log on or play to obtain the last 2 masters I need because to me it is completely pointless, it is to nearly impossible to farm those last 2 masters currently and there is no point in playing when the RA doesn't require me to play. I barely raid and I barely play right now, yet I still like this game. I occasionally log on and just help random pickup groups or people questing. And this decision takes away one of the last few reasons I even play.
Guys... I know this is a very sensitive topic and we're all rather heated about it...
But I still need everyone to be respectful. Ease off the name calling, etc please.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and we can disagree without getting out the boxing gloves, k?
Thanks.
