I know this post will paint me as an 'ole get-off-my-lawn curmudgeon, but I think it needs to be said.

Over the last two months I created toons on a handful of servers, and I was surprised at how different the culture felt from one to the next. But one thing was consistent no matter where/when I played: many legitimate questions in the 1-9 channel were treated as fodder for snarky, sarcastic, and juvenile replies. It seems there are always 3 or 4 wanna-be comedians just waiting to pounce. 97% of the time such responses aren't even mildly amusing. 100% of the time such responses are not helpful in the least.

Comedians aside, there are others who snap back with, "Wikia, look it up!". Yes, sometimes it is helpful to politely nudge a player toward an outside resource, but tone is everything. Some suggest sites as a courtesy, and others are clearly seizing an opportunity to be a condescending know-it-all. As baffling as the concept might be, some of us actually prefer to seek (and provide) answers in the context of the game. Where is it written that EQII must be joined at the hip with Wikia or EQ2Interface or anything else? Doesn't anybody believe in the art of conversation, or the value of a personal connection despite answers being available elsewhere?

I'm not against humor or banter in 1-9, and I like players who have personalities. But there's a time and place for humor, and there's rarely a justification for propping yourself up at a stranger's expense. To those who think there's no real harm in snarky responses, I won't sugar-coat my response:  you're dead wrong. There's a human being behind every question in the channel, and treating them like a pinata just might convince them it's not worth growing roots in the community. These situations add up to very real, and very detrimental, hits to the future health of the game.

If you think I'm posting this because I was personally berated in 1-9 -- guess again. I simply empathize with those who have been.

You do have to remember that 1-9 includes many people who are new-come to the game, often from other MMOs where rude, juvenile behavior flourishes.

Generally these people don't stick around real long, which is why discourse in higher level chat channels tends to not be so 13-year-old sniggering style.

Chiding people won't help. Remember also that the number of people who read the forums is quite low when compared to the number of people who play the game.

The only thing that does help is that you personally take the time to answer the questions yourself, setting the example you want others to follow.

I answer questions. I am, however, unwilling to look stuff up for people that is easily available if I don't know the answer off the top of my head. Therefore, I will ask "Have you looked at http://eq2.wikia.com/ yet? There's a good walkthu for it there."  I don't think this is unreasonable. I think it's much better to teach the man to fish rather than giving him the fish.

The Problem lies in the lack of a true high level channel people can use on alts.  Most people are in the 1-9 channel because they're on alts or just because its easier to have it active on all toons.  A lot of people use it when LFG.

Well said. Let's all respect each other, no matter if in a chat channel or out in the world 

So 1-9 has become a bit of a hodge podge but most people I know and have ever spoken to on that channel don't seem to mind. We also chit chat when nothing else is going on atm and a lot of people enjoy it. The difference is, we do answer newb questions when they are asked. And it's not just one person answering or saying, 'Use the web n00b'. You'll see quite a few people giving the answers and they are all the correct answer.

(This post has been edited for the OP)

On Splitpaw the 1-9 channel seems to have avoided these issues, questions asked there are generally answered in a constructive manner. I have seen exceptions to this, but they are rare.

We have a long-standing, custom channel called Norrathtrade. On occassions the chat here can degrade to a low level, but it is generally a handy place to ask for help, find a group etc....

What i do notice, is the small amount of snarky or non-constructive answers given to questions are generally from the same, very small, pool of people. I tend to just ignore and pity them. They seem to require any attention they can pull to themselves and this is probably a pointer to real-life immaturity or other issues.

I have to say the chat channels (and forums) in EQ2 are , by far, the least immature and most helpful I have used in any of the MMO's i have played. 

While I appreciate Yolanda's attempt to teach me a life lesson, I'm 33 years old and fully aware that MMOs will never be a pristine utopia of well-behaved citizens. This is my tenth year of MMOs (including EQ2 since launch), so I've witnessed the erosion of community over the years. I've also seen how people tend to shy away from addressing the problems directly, which in fact enables it.

That said, I stand by every single word in my OP. I consistently witnessed condescending and snarky comments in 1-9 as I rolled toons on the various servers in recent months:

- Unrest was not blameless, and was the first server I tried. Roughly 40 levels there, I think that's a fair sample.

- Befallen was worse. In its defense, I only spent 20 levels there and might have just caught it at a bad time.

- Mistmoore was generally quiet (seems to be in need of a merge) but certainly had the occasional instigator. 64 levels spent there.

- Antonia Bayle was the worst in terms of constant 1-9 bickering and one-upmanship. Not even 20 levels, but two different days.

- Kithicor was the ONLY server out of these five where I was routinely impressed at the friendliness and helpfulness of the players.

Anyway, I'm not interested in obtaining a stamp of approval from people on this message board or anywhere else. If you want to dismiss the issue as "just how life is", or project it as an issue with me instead, you're more than welcome to. I choose not to overlook ignorance, and I call it out when I see it. 

If even a handful of people come across this thread and reconsider pouncing on people asking legitimate questions in 1-9, then I'd say it's progress. 

1-9 is not SoE Tech Support.

Maybe there should be a worldwide support channel in-game where folks can ask such questions.

What stat do I need for this class? What AA lines should I go down? How do I start quest X? etc.

I originally thought the Guide program was for this, but afaik, and please correct me if I am wrong, Guides are selected because they are nice folks and like talking to people, but may or may not be familiar with all of the inner workings of the game, desired classes, quests, etc.

I do answer questions as helpfully as I can whenever possible, but if someone asks something really silly, I will sometimes say something snarky, but follow it up with some info they can use.

skirrge wrote:

While I appreciate Yolanda's attempt to teach me a life lesson, I'm 33 years old and fully aware that MMOs will never be a pristine utopia of well-behaved citizens.

I'm not interested in obtaining a stamp of approval from people on this message board or anywhere else. If you want to dismiss the issue as "just how life is", or project it as an issue with me instead, you're more than welcome to. I choose not to overlook ignorance, and I call it out when I see it. 

 

Didn't you just use the very snark you came here to "call out"? 

You might also consider your insistence on calling out the ignorance you see (your words, not mine) can, and often is, be seen as snark and one upmanship.

Just like you dont want to see what you call snark, and you dont want a life lesson or stamp of approval on these boards, folks dont want it in 1-9 either.

Honestly,  if we all take the advice of my 11 year old nephew, "Less QQ, more pew pew" this debate would wither and die.

skirrge wrote:

While I appreciate Yolanda's attempt to teach me a life lesson, I'm 33 years old and fully aware that MMOs will never be a pristine utopia of well-behaved citizens. That said, I stand by every single word in my OP. I consistently witnessed the condescending and snarky comments in 1-9 as I rolled toons on various servers:

- Unrest was not blameless, and was in fact the first server I tried. Roughly 40 levels there, I think that's a fair sample.

- Befallen was worse. In its defense, I only spent 20 levels there and might have just caught it at a bad time.

- Mistmoore was generally quiet (seems to be in need of a merge) but certainly had the occasional instigator. 64 levels spent there.

- Antonia Bayle was the worst in terms of constant 1-9 bickering and one-upmanship. Not even 20 levels, but two different days.

- Kithicor was the ONLY server out of these five where I was routinely impressed at the friendliness and helpfulness of the players.

Anyway, I'm not interested in obtaining a stamp of approval from people on this message board or anywhere else. If you want to dismiss the issue as "just how life is", by all means, turn a blind eye. I choose to call people out on ignorance when I see it. 

With any luck, a few eyes will come across this thread, and perhaps a few will even think twice before pouncing on people asking perfectly legitimate questions in 1-9.

 

I wasn't being rude, just saying that I personally have never noticed any completely rude or totally out-of-line comments to legit newbies in the 4+ years I have been on that server. I've seen more 'snarky' comments in the higher level channels than I do in 1-9. I routinely see people answering newb questions in 1-9 on my server. So maybe you were just always on at some time when everyone there was in a bad mood or something (or you took things too literally). /shrug

I was simply stating what I have observed in the many years I have been playing this game. The reason I did this was in case other people that had the same concerns as you read your post and were completely new to the MMO scene and had no idea what was going on or thought they were being picked on. I was being helpful, as I always am in-game and on forums.

So there really was no need for the rude and sarcastic comment to me. What I find even funnier: Your post is about people being 'snarky' in public channels (level chat or perhaps...a forum?) and you make that comment to me. Hey there's some hypocrisy for you right there! Thanks for the giggle this morning!

Have a great day!

feldon30 wrote:

1-9 is not SoE Tech Support.

Maybe there should be a worldwide support channel in-game where folks can ask such questions.

What stat do I need for this class? What AA lines should I go down? How do I start quest X? etc.

I originally thought the Guide program was for this, but afaik, and please correct me if I am wrong, Guides are selected because they are nice folks and like talking to people, but may or may not be familiar with all of the inner workings of the game, desired classes, quests, etc.

I do answer questions as helpfully as I can whenever possible, but if someone asks something really silly, I will sometimes say something snarky, but follow it up with some info they can use.

Unfortunately, not many people use the 'help' or 'newbie' channels SoE added. In the many years I have been playing this game, I have never seen anyone ask questions there. It seems everyone chooses to stay in 1-9...perhaps because there are obviously more people there? /shrug

Celena wrote:

skirrge wrote:

While I appreciate Yolanda's attempt to teach me a life lesson, I'm 33 years old and fully aware that MMOs will never be a pristine utopia of well-behaved citizens.

Didn't you just use the very snark you came here to "call out"? 

No, I didn't. Yolanda, as she so often does in Unrest's 1-9, attempted to "talk me down" with some long-winded diatribe about human behavior, and I addressed her directly in return. That's far different from pouncing on a person in 1-9 who is asking a legitimate question.

Anyway, the projection onto me came as expected, and I'm fine with that. I'll bow out of the thread and let people continue enabling the original behavior I was talking about. And the MMO community will continue to erode, and people will continue to scratch their heads and wonder why.

skirrge wrote:

Celena wrote:

skirrge wrote:

While I appreciate Yolanda's attempt to teach me a life lesson, I'm 33 years old and fully aware that MMOs will never be a pristine utopia of well-behaved citizens.

Didn't you just use the very snark you came here to "call out"? 

No, I didn't. Yolanda, as she so often does in Unrest's 1-9, attempted to "talk me down" with some long-winded diatribe about human behavior, and I addressed her directly in return. That's far different from pouncing on a person in 1-9 who is asking a legitimate question.

 

I rest my case.  Less QQ, more pew pew.  Its just the interwebs.

skirrge wrote:

Celena wrote:

skirrge wrote:

While I appreciate Yolanda's attempt to teach me a life lesson, I'm 33 years old and fully aware that MMOs will never be a pristine utopia of well-behaved citizens.

Didn't you just use the very snark you came here to "call out"? 

No, I didn't. Yolanda, as she so often does in Unrest's 1-9, attempted to "talk me down" with some long-winded diatribe about human behavior, and I addressed her directly in return. That's far different from pouncing on a person in 1-9 who is asking a legitimate question.

 

Actually, only the last paragraph was about people being jerks in an anonymous internet setting. I edited it for you though because you were clearly very upset about me posting. That's the kind of nice girl I am.

But in any case, you could always start your own channel for answering questions I suppose. Or just let the newbs continue to have their questions answered as they normally are. Their questions get answered...I see it every time I am in-game.

I don't see how I try to 'talk people down' in 1-9 chat on Unrest now. I answer people's questions and talk with my friends. Isn't that what the channel is for?I honestly talk more with my guild and in 70-79 chat in-game so I'm a little confused about your statement.

Again, I hope you have a great weekend!

skirrge wrote:

Celena wrote:

skirrge wrote:

While I appreciate Yolanda's attempt to teach me a life lesson, I'm 33 years old and fully aware that MMOs will never be a pristine utopia of well-behaved citizens.

Didn't you just use the very snark you came here to "call out"? 

No, I didn't. Yolanda, as she so often does in Unrest's 1-9, attempted to "talk me down" with some long-winded diatribe about human behavior, and I addressed her directly in return. That's far different from pouncing on a person in 1-9 who is asking a legitimate question.

 

OP, in some ways I agree with you.  However, the attitude you are displaying here undermines your cause. 

Interestingly, I think this interchange illustrates some of the problem.  What I saw as Yolanda sharing her thoughts, you interpreted as a diatribe, and a little snark-fest ensued.  I'd offer some suggestions for breaking the cycle but I strongly suspect it would just cause more offense then I've already given. 

All the irony is seeming quite a burden at this point! I think I'd best go back to answering questions in 1-9 in a humane a mannner as I can manage. Heh.