QuestingCrafter wrote:
*plugging ears, running around screaming "NANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!"*
Oh, ok, now I get it.
It is rather interesting to hear so many people say "Hey I don't do that... so it must not really be true that anyone does it", or "I have never experienced that, so it must not really exist", etc. I admit that I too have fallen prey to this type of thinking, although I have tried to make it clear that most of the things I state are my opinion. Everyone should try to understand that they and their experiences are an infinitesimal part of the EQ2 experience. No matter how much you argue, it is only speculation. Only Sony has all of the information, I just hope that they are putting it to good use.
Actually I am fairly certain that everyone that has posted against, and most that have posted neutrally towards the RA have currently claimed to make only trivial plat from masters. Several of the against the RA implementation will benefit more from the RA then the average player, multiple accounts and such.
Any player in a Raiding guild will not make significant money from selling masters. Masters tend to go to guildies first. Guild splits and selling of loot rights whether from raid zones or herioc zones.
Any player that spends 5+ hours a week harvesting or tradeskilling will make more money from that then masters over the course of time, selling a master will only be an occasional thing.
Even if you run two or three herioc zones a day, Masters will be a small part of your income. Lump sums income yes, but less then selling unneeded drops and body loot over time
If you box an entire group through 10+ Herioc instances a day even selling shinies is greater income.
How can master selling be significant income for anyone? Is it percieved this way becasue it comes in a lump sum with the sale? Perhaps when brawlers could feign through MM for chances at masters every hour or so. Otherwise I do not see it.
Noih@Kithicor wrote:
Actually I am fairly certain that everyone that has posted against, and most that have posted neutrally towards the RA have currently claimed to make only trivial plat from masters. Several of the against the RA implementation will benefit more from the RA then the average player, multiple accounts and such.Any player in a Raiding guild will not make significant money from selling masters. Masters tend to go to guildies first. Guild splits and selling of loot rights whether from raid zones or herioc zones.Any player that spends 5+ hours a week harvesting or tradeskilling will make more money from that then masters over the course of time, selling a master will only be an occasional thing.Even if you run two or three herioc zones a day, Masters will be a small part of your income. Lump sums income yes, but less then selling unneeded drops and body loot over timeIf you box an entire group through 10+ Herioc instances a day even selling shinies is greater income.How can master selling be significant income for anyone? Is it percieved this way becasue it comes in a lump sum with the sale? Perhaps when brawlers could feign through MM for chances at masters every hour or so. Otherwise I do not see it.
Then you must be blind. Here, do a little research.
http://eq2.zam.com/db/broker.html
urgthock wrote:
Noih@Kithicor wrote:Actually I am fairly certain that everyone that has posted against, and most that have posted neutrally towards the RA have currently claimed to make only trivial plat from masters. Several of the against the RA implementation will benefit more from the RA then the average player, multiple accounts and such.Any player in a Raiding guild will not make significant money from selling masters. Masters tend to go to guildies first. Guild splits and selling of loot rights whether from raid zones or herioc zones.Any player that spends 5+ hours a week harvesting or tradeskilling will make more money from that then masters over the course of time, selling a master will only be an occasional thing.Even if you run two or three herioc zones a day, Masters will be a small part of your income. Lump sums income yes, but less then selling unneeded drops and body loot over timeIf you box an entire group through 10+ Herioc instances a day even selling shinies is greater income.How can master selling be significant income for anyone? Is it percieved this way becasue it comes in a lump sum with the sale? Perhaps when brawlers could feign through MM for chances at masters every hour or so. Otherwise I do not see it. Then you must be blind. Here, do a little research.http://eq2.zam.com/db/broker.html
price put up does not equal price sold for.
a Master put up does not guarantee a sale of a Master
Some guilds use the broker as an extension of the guild bank shoving prices upwards.
Please stop with the personal insults, and explain your reasoning.
Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:
Gage wrote:You don't need every master to be effectively "mastered out". You simply need the 8 to 10 best spells for your class, which the RA enables every player to attain. Realistically since tiers last 24 months, most players will see between 20 and 23 masters of any given tier for free.Most people operate with more than one character Gage. 10 masters a year spread over 12+ alts really isn't much now is it? I wonder when the last time was YOU paid broker prices for a master? You probably got all yours allocated to you during raids?
Gage wrote:
You don't need every master to be effectively "mastered out". You simply need the 8 to 10 best spells for your class, which the RA enables every player to attain. Realistically since tiers last 24 months, most players will see between 20 and 23 masters of any given tier for free.
Most people operate with more than one character Gage. 10 masters a year spread over 12+ alts really isn't much now is it? I wonder when the last time was YOU paid broker prices for a master? You probably got all yours allocated to you during raids?
Yes they do however, most people also operate with a "main". Most people also wouldn't dilute the effectiveness of a limited access feature like the RA and those that would divide it over 12+ alts( although 12 is the legit max per server), aren't going to enjoy the post RA world when people start asking why they aren't performing at the master level. Given the social obligations free masters will bring, anyone spreading out masters from the RA in such a manner is asking for problems.
I only pay prices on the broker I consider acceptable. If I see a master listed for more, I send a tell to the seller or just accept I really don't want or need it (e.g. Death March M1 is on the broker for 360pp and I didn't even send a tell because for my play level it's just nice to think about). If you are paying broker prices you consider too high, you are part of the problem. It's a free market and since masters are neither limited nor player controlled and have no real access cost, the price of a master is truly just what you'll pay for it. If some players are willing to pay those prices for masters that aren't needed at the heroic level of play, consider yourself outbid and consider where all that plat those people were spending on masters will go once the prices are forced down.
They only master I ever bought for more than 100pp was Grim Sorc for 120pp. The only master I ever sold for more than 100pp was Santuary for about 200pp and that's because I got it after 2 weeks straight of farming for Death March. Every other bit of my cash has come from tradeskills and trash loot. How much is too much for you and why do you think it's such a crime for people to price masters that high when they aren't really needed for any content in the game except maybe high end raiding?
urgthock wrote:Then you must be blind. Here, do a little research.http://eq2.zam.com/db/broker.htmlprice put up does not equal price sold for.
Then you must be blind. Here, do a little research.http://eq2.zam.com/db/broker.html
No, urgthock is 100% correct in this.
By the way, this leads me to my next issue. There is currently someone selling a T2 treasured adornment on Najena for 9999p (+ broker fees). Obviously crafters are making too much money, therefore an NPC that offers all crafted gear in the game for no effort or cost needs to be added to the game.
Noaani wrote:
Noih@Kithicor wrote:urgthock wrote:Then you must be blind. Here, do a little research.http://eq2.zam.com/db/broker.htmlprice put up does not equal price sold for.No, urgthock is 100% correct in this.By the way, this leads me to my next issue. There is currently someone selling a T2 treasured adornment on Najena for 9999p (+ broker fees). Obviously crafters are making too much money, therefore an NPC that offers all crafted gear in the game for no effort or cost needs to be added to the game.
Selling loot rights is fine, which is why SOE didn't answer the question about them in the Dev Q&A thread.
The last time I paid broker prices for a master was every single ranger master I have except 3. I got trap from a guildie, shower of arrows from a VP raid and used arrows from Zarrakon. I paid 275pp for my offensive stance M1 when I was on Butcherblock.
As an assassin during early RoK I spent around 1,200 plat for my masters and right after I got all of them I betrayed to ranger and spent another 800 or 900 plat on ranger masters iirc.
Also, I never take alts into consideration when discussing mechanics changes because the game shouldn't be developed with alternate characters in mind.
QuestingCrafter wrote:From your use of it, you clearly don't even know what the word, "puerile" means -- sadly."of a child or belonging to childhood"To repeat that you believe something, dispite being told repeatidly by others that it is not ture is as close to a puerile act as anything I have seen on these forums. It is akin to sitting in a car asking "are where there yet?" every 30 seconds.Both are childish acts, and both belong to the young. As such, puerile is an appropriate word to use.
From your use of it, you clearly don't even know what the word, "puerile" means -- sadly.
"of a child or belonging to childhood"
To repeat that you believe something, dispite being told repeatidly by others that it is not ture is as close to a puerile act as anything I have seen on these forums. It is akin to sitting in a car asking "are where there yet?" every 30 seconds.
Both are childish acts, and both belong to the young. As such, puerile is an appropriate word to use.
By your logic, when I spoke to twenty friends during the last elections, and they told me for whom they voted ... that person must have won.
Being told by less than 1% of 1% of a population, that something is true ... doesn't make it so.
Really, I can believe that handful of people who've posted in this thread, claiming that they don't make the bulk of their plat from selling masters ... don't. Bully for them! I'd like to infer that they don't object to RAs on economic grounds then (or at least, not as strenuously).
Given the disdain in tone of some posters (myself included), I hardly suspect someone to step up with, "Hi, I'm Bob, and I've made 19,200 plat so far this year selling Masters."
Nearly every day, my Broker searches include all T8 fabled (for 'muting), T8 Templar Masters, T8 Bruiser Masters, T8 Illusionist Masters, T8 Troubador Masters, and T8 Conjuror Masters (yay for raiding alts). I watch prices drop, and I see Masters disappear. I can't imagine all the ones which disappear are being handed out by a guild -- in fact, some I'm quite sure don't, as I've bought them! I've never suggested that every item listed on the Broker eventually sells for that amount; likewise, I'd never imply that zero do either.
What's puerile is thinking one's limited experience/knowledge is universal and perfect.
I disagree; alts permit for replayability (something almost every game designer wants), and is an excellent mechanism for recruitment of friends (yes, you can mentor -- but more than one solution is better). The addition of +10% xp per level-capped toon certainly suggests the devs encourage alt playing.
I'd agree that there shouldn't be a presumption that everyone plays alts up to raid-readiness, if at all -- but obviously, some do ... and the game mechanics should recognize that.
With regards to RAs in their current implementation, if the concept is to permit people to get key/rare Masters at a slow rate (and freely), I'm fine with it being per account per server (even though I have several toons in T8 myself).
alts permit for replayability (something almost every game designer wants
The developer implementing the RA is unconcerned with replayability, as are those that are letting/instructing her to do so.
Gage wrote:Also, I never take alts into consideration when discussing mechanics changes because the game shouldn't be developed with alternate characters in mind.I disagree; alts permit for replayability (something almost every game designer wants), and is an excellent mechanism for recruitment of friends (yes, you can mentor -- but more than one solution is better). The addition of +10% xp per level-capped toon certainly suggests the devs encourage alt playing.I'd agree that there shouldn't be a presumption that everyone plays alts up to raid-readiness, if at all -- but obviously, some do ... and the game mechanics should recognize that.With regards to RAs in their current implementation, if the concept is to permit people to get key/rare Masters at a slow rate (and freely), I'm fine with it being per account per server (even though I have several toons in T8 myself).
The only concept we've been told has been that they are an incentive to log in. Given that and their encouragement of alts over the years, the per server per account rule is counterproductive and has an exponentially disproportionate impact based on the number of same server alts. If the concept is to permit people to get key/rare Masters at a slow rate (and freely), then alt's shouldn't matter to this end and the restriction is arbitrary and should be removed.
Deson wrote:
Wait .... (doing my best Oracle Jones impersonation) there now I see it!
Free masters, but one per server per account at a time.
They are also revamping server transfers, making them (presumably) less expensive and actually functional again and available through SC.
Genius.
This seems to be your logic rather than mine.
Gage and I are not talking about our own experiances, nor even the experiances of those imediatly around us. The raiding community in EQ2 is small, and the majority of raiders know someone in each of the top end guilds that exist in this game. There is always talk about various things between raiders, and no one that I know of in any guild on any server has said that they make the majority of their coin from selling masters.
I have heard a lot of people go on about how they make a killing from collection pieces, a lot say how they make a lot from selling loot rights, or from farming and selling off transmute fodder (though not for a few years now), but no top end raider makes the majority of their coin from selling masters.
In fact, if you were to look at how much I have spent on masters in T8 VS how much I have made from master sales, I am down several thousand plat, as are the majority of raiders.
