Imago-Quem wrote:

GPU Shadows fix holes in random objects you'll see throughout the game, namely a few armor sets.  If you switch
back and forth between CPU and GPU with your armor set on you may notice the shadows being fixed up,
depending on the armor.

GPU Shadows do render faster, but since the trees and plants, heck, all the surrounding objects, are always
included in the GPU shadow calculations they may at times run slower because there are more objects being
shadowed.  Check out the trees as the extreme example.  CPU shadows do not cast dynamic shadows for them.

The sky issue should be fixed in the next update.

The shadows will be darker in the next update.

Also, you will find a significant difference in the GPU shadow qualities in the next couple Test updates (eg.
How blurry the shadows are - as apposed to pixelated, where blurring occurs, larger differences in frame rates
between GPU shadow quality settings, etc.)

Thank you so much!

As far as maxing out your quality, the "control factor" setup for GPU shadows was a little confusing to some other
developers here, so we adjusted them for an upcoming update. 

Explanation of the old system you may be currently seeing: A set of 3 quality settings for each control factor,
Performance, Distance, and Sharpness.  If you worry about smoothness and frames per second you'll adjust the
quality based on Performance (eg. Set control factor to Performance and adjust the GPU shadow quality).  If you're
more concerned about how crisp your shadows are you'll adjust the quality based on Sharpness.  And finally, if you
want to base your shadow quality on how far away your shadows continue to render, you'll adjust the quality
based on Distance.  Each of these settings are mutually exclusive (eg. You couldn't adjust Performance to high,
Sharpness to high, and then Distance to high and expect that to be your maxed settings).  Each control factor has
it's on low, medium, and high setting and each are mutually exclusive from each other, meaning there are in reality
9 total settings.  In the end, you decide what the "max" setting is for your own taste.

What's new: In an upcoming update you will only see a single GPU shadow Quality setting.  We've mixed the 3
control factors so you'll always see shadows as far as possible for each level of quality and you'll see the crispest
shadow as well.  As you increase the quality the distance your shadows continue rendering and the sharpness of
your shadow will increase while your FPS will take a hit for better quality.

In the next update your maxed GPU shadow setting will be the High setting.  This would only be recommended for
graphics cards released within the last year or 2.  Medium should work well on a card equivalent to the NVidia 8800. 
And Low will likely work on any 3.0 Shader card below that.

Is there any way to have GPU shadows enabled only for the items that they do a superior job compared to CPU shadows and then have CPU shadows cover the rest?

It is possible to split the objects up between the two shadow systems, but this would require some time to implement. 
We have no plans to do this yet. 

Note also, there is an initial FPS cost for GPU shadows but there is none for CPU shadows.  This means if there are no
shadows being casted at all GPU shadows will still cost some FPS but CPU won't.  GPU shadows find their gain when lots
of shadows are being casted.  So mixing CPU with GPU may cost you even more FPS.

Which object shadows do you see are more superior with CPU shadows?

Imago-Quem wrote:

It is possible to split the objects up between the two shadow systems, but this would require some time to implement. 
We have no plans to do this yet. 

Note also, there is an initial FPS cost for GPU shadows but there is none for CPU shadows.  This means if there are no
shadows being casted at all GPU shadows will still cost some FPS but CPU won't.  GPU shadows find their gain when lots
of shadows are being casted.  So mixing CPU with GPU may cost you even more FPS.

Which object shadows do you see are more superior with CPU shadows?

I haven't actually tested it yet but I thought you said something about CPU shadows being higher quality in certain situations maybe I'm mistaken.  If you have a high end video card would GPU shadows most likely increase performance when set to highest quality relative to CPU shadows on max settings?

Lethe5683 wrote:

Imago-Quem wrote:

It is possible to split the objects up between the two shadow systems, but this would require some time to implement. 
We have no plans to do this yet. 

Note also, there is an initial FPS cost for GPU shadows but there is none for CPU shadows.  This means if there are no
shadows being casted at all GPU shadows will still cost some FPS but CPU won't.  GPU shadows find their gain when lots
of shadows are being casted.  So mixing CPU with GPU may cost you even more FPS.

Which object shadows do you see are more superior with CPU shadows?

I haven't actually tested it yet but I thought you said something about CPU shadows being higher quality in certain situations maybe I'm mistaken.  If you have a high end video card would GPU shadows most likely increase performance when set to highest quality relative to CPU shadows on max settings?

I have a Radeon HD4870 and an Intel E8400 cpu OC'd to 3.6ghz, and I assure you, the GPU shadows give quite a performance boost.  Running around East Freeport, with absolute max settings, and GPU shadows, at over 40 fps was quite a treat.  I think I'll bring up the Catalyst Control Center and see how hard my video card is being taxxed with GPU shadows tonight.  On Live, normally during EQ2, it hovers around 10-20% gpu utilization.

Quality is a relative term here.  Comparing CPU and GPU shadows isn't straight forward.  Here are some differences that make the comparison difficult:

  1) Sharpness:

      CPU shadows are always sharp (EQII engine).

      GPU shadows are only sharp at high resolution shadow maps.  This can be scaled and depends on how much graphics memory your graphics card supports.  At low resolution shadow maps GPU shadows will appear "blocky".  A blurring technique can be applied to these maps to smooth out the "blockyness".  Blurring is limited to the Shader Model 3.0 limitations in size and complexity.  A blurred low resolution shadow map is usually preferred rather than the sharp, less natural looking CPU shadow volumes.

      Is this what determines quality?

  2) Number of triangles shadowed:

      CPU shadows generate in real time (every frame) an entirely new 3D object based on the 3D object casting a shadow.  The more complex the object is the more CPU cycles are taken up to generate the new 3D object.  The new 3D shadow is then rendered onto your screen and masking out lighting effects.

      GPU shadows just render the original 3D object onto at least 2 screen buffers (1 of them is a shadow map buffer).  With Cascading Shadow Maps (used in EQII) the object is potentially drawn to 2 additional shadow map buffers depending on the quality setting of the shadow maps.  There are no CPU calculations for generating any 3D objects but there are additional draw calls sent to the 3D hardware.  GPU shadows also use more intense / complex shaders to apply the shadow to the scene whereas volume shadows use a very simple shader in combination with an affect called stenciling.

     This is where you'll find the difference in frames per second between CPU and GPU shadows.

     Is this what determines quality?

  3) Dynamic Tree Shadows:

     In EQII CPU shadows don't cast dynamic shadows from trees or plants.  They are static drop down shadows.  For now, these shadows are always calculated for GPU shadows.  They change depending on the angle of the sun and accurately shadow each leaf you see in the tree or plant.

      Is this what determines quality?

  4) Frames Per Second:

      CPU Shadows provide different frames per second depending on how many objects are casting shadows.  This can be scaled by adjusting a couple settings in EQII.  For EQII, CPU shadows "pop" into view when they start to be shadowed.

      GPU Shadows provide different frames per second depending on how blocky and fuzzy the shadows become and how far out you can see shadows from your player character.  GPU shadows fade shadows in as they come into view.

      If you shadow 100 complex objects with CPU shadows you will have a lower framerate than if you shadowed those same objects with GPU shadows.  If you shadow 1 simple object with CPU shadows you will likely have higher framerates than if you shadowed the same 1 simple object with GPU shadows.  This is because for GPU shadows the objects affected by the shadow must also be integrated into the shadow calculations, meaning rocks, trees, and the ground you're walking on all must be passed through the graphics hardware and GPU shadow shader in order to cast shadows on them.

      Is this what determines quality?

sorry, but my grpahics card crapped out on me, had to revert to a geforce 6800, which can barely run eq2, let alone shadows.

can someone else get a screenshot of what i was saying? gpu shaodws appearing on the wrong side of the charatcer?

i noticed this in the commonlands next to a tree near the middle camp thing

I really appreciate you taking the time to give such detailed responses.

I do have one question though...  With the increased usage of GPUs to render shadows, does SLI hardware become viable now?  On Live, turning off SLI seems to give me a better FPS since so little of the card is used.  I assume there is less overhead to the cpu/mobo since both cards are not being addressed.  You suggest that the 8800 series would be good to run the new system at medium.  So would 8800x2 in SLI handle higher settings now?

Thanks again~

Sorry, we don't have anything written specifically for SLI yet.

Zyketor@Unrest wrote:

sorry, but my grpahics card crapped out on me, had to revert to a geforce 6800, which can barely run eq2, let alone shadows.

can someone else get a screenshot of what i was saying? gpu shaodws appearing on the wrong side of the charatcer?

i noticed this in the commonlands next to a tree near the middle camp thing

 if your lucky you got the right 6800 using rivatuner i think you can unlock extra pipes on it get a bit more performance outta it good do a google for unlocking 6800,, i  i had/ still have it on kids computer   managed too boost it another 10%

 without shadows  it runs eq2 pretty good !!! remember eq2 is like 80% cpu 20% gpu LMAO give or take i was using the 6800 until i bought 8800 gt 260$ < kicks self in !@$$> now  it's equal in performance is like 69$- to 99$ now

my 2 copper

monrofayy wrote:

Zyketor@Unrest wrote:

sorry, but my grpahics card crapped out on me, had to revert to a geforce 6800, which can barely run eq2, let alone shadows.

can someone else get a screenshot of what i was saying? gpu shaodws appearing on the wrong side of the charatcer?

i noticed this in the commonlands next to a tree near the middle camp thing

 if your lucky you got the right 6800 using rivatuner i think you can unlock extra pipes on it get a bit more performance outta it good do a google for unlocking 6800,, i  i had/ still have it on kids computer   managed too boost it another 10%

 without shadows  it runs eq2 pretty good !!! remember eq2 is like 80% cpu 20% gpu LMAO give or take i was using the 6800 until i bought 8800 gt 260$ < kicks self in !@$$> now  it's equal in performance is like 69$- to 99$ now

 

 

my 2 copper

doesn't work :p tried that long ago.

640MB should be more than enough.

Further to my comments earlier here is an animated gif I made this morning to show another related issue, the reason I think it is related is the fact that the flora now appear  to 'drop' under the ground dependant upon the distance between the camera and the avatar and appears to be 'dropping' at the same rate as the ghost image I see of world objects and my avatar.  It can also be clearly seen in the last frame that the shadow cut off line at the bottom is exactly where the flora stops being drawn.

Link as it's over 4mb in size:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/daniel.../gfx_issues.gif