CPU Shadows issues:

The Lunar Moon is affecting the reflections in the ocean once it is in the field of view. First seen in TS during daylight mid-day. If the Lunar Moon is not in the field of view, reflections are normal (including the sky). *UPDATE, the cracked moon - the exploded thing, whatever it's called!

The Flora should only move a little. Personally. It bends right over and flicks upright too quickly. I think this may be also affecting other NPCs walking through it in the way that it is working as it doesn't look right.

Even though I haven't done anything, there is fog in the craters of TS. They aren't there in Live the last time I remember it and it definitely is not apparent the last time I tried it with settings below balanced. But it is the case in Test. What setting controls the fog layer in those craters anyway? They look great but I remember them murdering my system 2 years ago. Not anymore!

I think in retrospect, Flora might need further tweaking. With if off, and I don't really miss it, the frames rates in TS are 90fps (can lock it to a solid 60fps if I want to) with the tweaked settings I am using in this thread. TS is largely empty, but it still looks fantastic. The Complex Shader Distance can be maxed out with little effect on fps too so you see distant towers with CPU shadows on them. It's impressive to say the least.

Is there a reason the Test servers are being rebooted like every 30 minutes (seems like it). It's either one or the other of the two Test servers.

I noticed that the Draw Distance is working somewhat differently. The draw view in Antonica when you looking back from TS, where that centre rock face is climbable, overlooking Gnollslayer Keep... everything is being drawn. Everything. It shouldn't be doing it with a setting of 400 (on Live, in the past, I had to go 800 to draw everything in that view). No slow-down of ANY KIND that I am observing either on Test with the tweak settings I am using.

GPU Shadows. What were we talking about again?

Albright wrote:

Brook wrote:

In Darklight woods the streetlamps in the starter area were not emitting light in a normal fashion and instead I saw a big yellowish square around them. The torches along the paths looked fine though.

Reflection seem to be working again as well, thanks for fixing that. The lighting problems where som lights appeared as squares area in different zones and seem to depend on the kind of light being used.

I can confirm this in Kelethin (Faydark) inside a hut. There is a yellow square surrounding the laterns inside. I tried all sort of Lighting settings, Shadow settings et al - couldn't fix it.

* UPDATE: Set Particle Quality to Minimal. Fixed.

Resolved a problem with Ocean reflection when you are at an elevated position looking at water, where if you look from the Freeport docks out to sea, there is no detail or reflection. It doesn't occur at ground level to water.

Set 'Mirror Reflection Distance' to 325.

Fog in the craters is normal and I have seen it on live many times, I think it has something to do with weather patterns and temperature/seasonal changes. 

The server instability seems to be coming from people paying rent for their homes or guild halls, the server will crash when you zone after doing so. I crashed it last night (sorry) and found it. The problem started right after he repairs to the login server, so maybe they had to patch something in to get the login working and it created the problem.

Thanks for the tip on particle quality setting.

Brook wrote:

Fog in the craters is normal and I have seen it on live many times, I think it has something to do with weather patterns and temperature/seasonal changes. 

The server instability seems to be coming from people paying rent for their homes or guild halls, the server will crash when you zone after doing so. I crashed it last night (sorry) and found it. The problem started right after he repairs to the login server, so maybe they had to patch something in to get the login working and it created the problem.

Thanks for the tip on particle quality setting.

I know that when I was on EQ2 in 2007, fog in the craters of TS would not appear until you where at balanced or higher. If it's a weather pattern, I think an option shoud be made to toggle it - although, there is no performance hit using it. But perhaps a density setting. Using it in 2007 was not an option. The NPCs in it with the fog layer in there almost always caused my PC to grind to a halt or crash.

Server stability. If that's all it is, that's good news. I want nothing to do with it 

Particle settings on minimal should just indicate to SoE that it is a particle bug. No idea why higher settings cause a solid flat object. Perhaps a boundary or binding area is being broken.

Ocean Best Quality settings for Reflections and Cube Mapping (both toggles) are not working correctly, particularly in Kunark's starting area.

If the Sun's skylight is just above the ocean looking out to sea it is very noticeable there is a bug: it flicks on and off when view is either looked up or down or side to side. It's nice to see the sun reflected in the water, so it should be fixed.

Best to toggle both toggled options of Best Quality to Good Quality. Plus you get a nice jump in performance (and it looks better if you ask me as Best is bugged and annoying as it breaks the boundaries of what it is supposed to do).

I can't find the saved configured option in my config file for the Distance Reflection in Ocean's settings. It should be set to 325 to resolve the way it works when you are elevated above water from a harbour. Just so I can update it on this thread.

I was getting this weird light/shadow threshold relative to the angle of the camera and I don't know why. I was on at about 6 AM - 9 AM PST/AST (always with no DST).

something i noticed in qh last night was watching how the shadows  cast from the buildings moved as the sun traveled across the sky was that it looked like some 1 was erasing the shadows with a pencil eraser....not smooth at all.

kind of annoying to watch....not sure if this could be smoothed out or at least made to look not so jaggy.

also...the new option for darkening the shadows...works very good.hope this stays till live."running thru qh with everything maxed at 50 fps...hope this goes live soon"keep up the great work"

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

...I've a 4870 HD and a Core 2 Duo Wolfdale E8400 2.4 GHZ with 8 gigabytes of DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) RAM...

My system is better than yours yet I get only 30 FPS max (with all settings on high). Flora and intense activity can hit me down to 15-20 on test. I run at 1680x1050 though...the agony!

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

I was getting this weird light/shadow threshold relative to the angle of the camera and I don't know why. I was on at about 6 AM - 9 AM PST/AST (always with no DST).

This is normal in the way GPU shadows is working right now. GPU shadows is early days at the moment and it still needs optimizing.

You will get much better performance and far better shadows with CPU shadows on Test if you use the configuration I've shown in this thread (following adjustments thereafter).

Why CPU shadows is performing so damn well, I would like to hear from the programmer who did that. I am seeing good performance 33-48fps outdoor zones and 51-72fps in dungeons from a uni-core A64 4000+ (2.4Ghz, 1Mb L2 cache) nevermind an E8600 Core2Duo (6Mb L2 cache) 4Ghz CPU- with nothing less than insane frame rates (in both outdoor and dungeons). No idea what it's like in a full group or raid. But it should stick to the performance curve.

Why the sudden electrifying change with CPU shadows? All anyone talks about is GPU shadows like it's the better alternative?

vochore wrote:

something i noticed in qh last night was watching how the shadows  cast from the buildings moved as the sun traveled across the sky was that it looked like some 1 was erasing the shadows with a pencil eraser....not smooth at all.

kind of annoying to watch....not sure if this could be smoothed out or at least made to look not so jaggy.

also...the new option for darkening the shadows...works very good.hope this stays till live."running thru qh with everything maxed at 50 fps...hope this goes live soon"keep up the great work"

Haven't checked it, and I am not entirely relying on GPU shadows here, but that is a Complex Shader Distance setting (at least for CPU shadows).

Not sure if GPU shadows is affected by that. It might also be related to Off-screen Shadows (in Shadows' Options).

The GPU shadows (at least on my LCD monitor: which is calibrated to PS standards) is only similar to CPU shadows at setting 6.22 - not 2.80.

Oddly enough, GPU shadows didn't recognize this freeportian brazier as a light source yet CPU shadows did. CPU shadows were also crisper, despite being about 3 FPS lower.

CPU Shadows:

GPU Shadows:

I took more screenshots, but they were just of how GPU shadows had only been affected by the sun and not the brazier while CPU shadows had been affected by both.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/...gcpushadows.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/...ggpushadows.jpg

Seliri@Nagafen wrote:

Oddly enough, GPU shadows didn't recognize this freeportian brazier as a light source yet CPU shadows did. CPU shadows were also crisper, despite being about 3 FPS lower.

CPU Shadows:

 

GPU Shadows:

 

That's normal for GPU shadows - for the moment.

CPU shadows has always been from the very beginning, what it is. It accurately calculates shadows from ANY source. Whether it is from the Sun (sky light), Torches, Fireplaces, Character Torches, other Character, NPCs, Moon light, Spell effects - you name it, it does it. Not only that, but it accurately uses colour based on the source of the light, and reflects, based on parameters such as how far away it is and how it shades an object it lands on. CPU shadows and light also moves with the source and if there is more than two source point lights, it will also triangulate both of them depending on which source is the strongest.

The best way to see this is with you holding a Torch and walking under arches. GPU shadows doesn't do this at the moment.

CPUs like Core2Duo with 6Mb L2 cache are literally lazing about with it. Before, with uni-core, and the old designs, they were brutalized pretty badly.

GPU shadows has massive potential for optimization, because as it stands, there is not enough man-hours available to use the power available in GPUs like the 4800 series and 200 series from the two top tier manufacturers: you're not likely to reach a plateau. GPU shadows will never have a limitation unless your optimization is poor.

SoE have already indicated a balance between GPU shadows with CPU shadows. From my experience of Test, CPU shadows will be the dominant characteristic of EQ2, with GPU shadows a supporting cast.

Wow!  A lot of comments over the weekend.

First off, CPU shadows were optimized as a byproduct of the GPU Shadow update.  As we went through the source
code to integrate and implement GPU shadows we found places here and there that could use a tune-up, so we
tuned them up.  I'm glad you're seeing such a dramatic difference.

Yes, I realize the ocean mirror reflections are still not perfect.  I played a little this weekend as well and saw them
malfunctioning in "some" places.  We'll be taking a look at that as well.

Yes, GPU shadows only cast shadows from the sun.  Sorry about the torches and other lights for now.  It's another
complex addition to add this effect to GPU shadows.  CPU shadows are currently implemented with the volume
shadow algorithm.  Their design is based on tracing a ray from the light's center out through each silhouette vertex
of an object near the light.  This is what makes volume shadows so nice yet expensive to calculate.  It literally has
to trace through each triangle of each object, determine the silhouette edges, generate an entirely new 3D model
based on the ray and silhouette edges, render the 3D object through a "stenciler", then use the created stencil to
"cut out" the lighting in the scene.  This is done every frame.  It does not work on most flora systems since leaves
generally don't have "true" geometry.  In fact volume shadows won't work on anything with holes or "cut-outs". 
The system requires full geometry.  GPU shadows do not require full geometry.

We're currently working on a fix for the cutting line in GPU shadows occurring on some graphics cards.

The lighter base of shadows is an artifact of some blurring applied to the shadows.  It currently keeps the shadow
qualities from crashing into each other as they get further away from the character.  Check out Assassin's Creed as
a comparison to see what I mean.

For fog, if you don't see the setting for it in the options then we likely don't currently support edits.  Most of the weather
effects is set per region by our artists.  They'll want to portray a certain atmosphere with these settings.  I'll check
on the particles issue.  It may just be an artifact of lower quality.  I'm not sure if we have any plans to update how
fast flora rebounds from bending.

The Test server going down over the weekend is an issue we know about.  A solution is on its way.

Thanks for your comments about the GPU Shadows... and other "upgraded features".  We hope you will continue to
enjoy our continual updates to the engine and content.  Expect more to come.

Albright wrote:

I've been on the test server for HOURS since the last post. It's 3:20am in the morning here in the UK.

As far as I am concerned, CPU shadow performance is-

F I X ED

Let me repeat that again-

CPU SHADOWS AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, AS A SOLO PLAYER, WHO GROUPS INFREQUENTLY, IS

F I X E D

God knows what performance you'd get out of an E8600 at 4Ghz, but I think it would probably smack the crap out of my Core i7 at 3.2Ghz.

I have a saved configuration, which is basically Very High Performance, with CPU shadows MAXED OUT, Forna MAXED OUT, 2x High Detail Characters (each projecting their own shadow maximum). The Ocean setting can be set to minimum, and just set the Best settings for reflect and cube mapping. I don't know exactly what is going on here, but Low seems no different from Maximum - with the exception that Low gives you much higher performance. Procedural textures and Fastest (one time update) is set too (for the Ocean). There are other things I can't remember (I won't add further), but results in an amazing visual end product. Nothing touches it.

The fact is here, that Ocean, at this setting, produces visuals that cannot be comprehended until you go to a pool of water such as in the Forest just off of Castleview Hamlet (I've actually forgotten what it's called). It has the Unicorn in it. The water effect is staggeringly SPECTACULAR at - wait for it - 60fps: if I turn v-lock off it goes to 90, then a 100fps and STARTS CLIMBING higher. I noticed that there is an underneath problem as opposed to an overhead problem of shadows being absent with the bridge - no big detail. I'll bug it later.

The GPU is definitely involved (aside from shadows) because I fiddled with the pre-rendered frames. If it is set to 3, I am literally playing a FPS action game. At 1, there is a more immediate 'feel' to the movement and activity of objects and models. Difficult to explain. But it points to one conclusion. The GPU is definitely active and alive here and by more than 20-30% which has been suggested it is on Live.

I can't get used to using GPU shadows. In some ways, CPU shadows performs better. Maybe it's because I am in small zones testing this out and in special non-group scenarios (though this is really internet related). Not sure. The tree shadows work very well with CPU shadows. Much better than I at first expected, because I didn't really entertain it before I cared to notice it.

With regard to GPU shadows, there are still the issues that make it completely inferior to CPU shadows. I think the point is, some people will like GPU shadows and some will like CPU shadows. I like CPU shadows a great deal more than GPU shadows, personally. No matter what I do with the slider, I can't get it light enough or dark enough. Other issues abound: if they change, I will recant my slight slander of GPU shadows implemented on Test.

What's really worse is that at night, CPU shadows owns GPU shadows so badly, it's not even funny. When you tweak the settings (because I am working on 60fps rock solid) from Very High Performance to get all the stunning shadows off of a fire place for instance, or a torch, or your own torch - and watch what it does (which is, needless to say, absolutely fcking spectacular and blows even LOTRO out the fcking window here) is that GPU shadows completely fails to elicit any gasp - because it doesn't do it and is actually, slightly less better performing. But it is, overall, sort of impressive. It's just that CPU shadows, RIGHT NOW on TEST, is so stupidly unbelievably amazing that it didn't stand a chance.

If the programmers get that L3 cache patterned to EQ2's Test code, I've no doubt it will rip a new a-hole in the CPU shadow engine. I'm fairly certain that an Intel Core2Duo E8600 (OCed to 4ghz, which is so stupidly easy, you won't believe it without hardly touching v-core) with 6Mb L2 cache, would laugh at CPU shadows on Test.

Let me repeat this. I don't know what they've done to EQ2's code and CPU shadows, but they've fixed it. Plain and simple. I've played it for hours. No. Not PLAYED IT. I've had an experience of walking around the early starting areas of Qeynos at 60fps silk smooth performance, with my freaking EYEBALLS HANGING OUT.

It is a completely DIFFERENT EQ2 GAME AND EXPERIENCE.

It's like BLOODY EQ3 FOR GODSAKES.

* UPDATE - this is in the saved profile I made (I presume it reflects all the tweaks I made as I removed all the miscellaneous settings I didn't think were graphically related); nVidia only - 3 pre-rendered franmes, NO triple buffer, NO V-synch, NO AA or AF, High Performance, all optimisations OFF.

[test only] Graphics settings for maximum performance, maximum detail (CPU Shadows only).

* UPDATED - Turn of Flora completely if you want to increase performance by 50% (I hit over 120fps easily) - and at the same time solve the problem in Nektulos Forest (because you will 'get the problem' in Nektulous Forest).

r_performance 7
cl_fullscreen true
cl_refresh_sync false
cl_triple_buffer false
r_ec_max_lod1 60
r_shadow_type 1
r_frame_buffer_scale 1.000000
r_light_buffer_scale 1.000000
o_max_farplane 400.000000
r_fast_layer_min_distance 20.000000
cl_letter_box_amount 0.000000
letterbox_frame_visible false
cl_textureshrink 0
cl_charactertextureshrink 0
r_texture_lodding_shrink 3
r_bloom false
r_bloom_atmospheric false
r_heatshimmer false
r_underwaterdistortion false
r_splashes 0
splash_particles_enabled false
r_update_procedural_textures true
r_drawocean_quality 3
r_envcube_updates 2
r_reflections 0
r_reflectionsinhouse 0
r_particle_priority 0
num_active_spell_results 1
r_particlesinreflections true
r_particlesinreflectionsinhouse false
r_particle_lod_scale 2.000000
r_point_particle_near_plane 0.000000
r_point_particle_max_size 0.750000
r_light_priority 2
r_max_torches 1
r_torch_intensity 1.000000
r_max_lights 3
r_light_spec true
r_rain_spec true
r_max_spec_lights 1
r_light_bump_max_distance 20.000000
r_min_dir_ambient_intensity 0.000000
r_shadow_priority 3
r_shadows_torch true
r_shadows_characters true
r_shadows_other true
r_shadows_keep true
r_shadows_spec false
cl_lod_scale 1.500000
cl_lod_tridensity 50000.000000
r_ec_max_lod0 2
r_min_anim_update_rate 0.300000
r_anim_update_start 0.050000
r_initial_point_weight 0.650000
r_particle_cloth false
cl_show_cloaks false
r_flora false
r_flora_displacement false
r_flora_radius_scale 1.000000
r_flora_density_scale 1.000000
ics_maxcameradistance 20.000000
smooth_mouse false
user_allow_dynamic_fov false

You said you disabled v sync, but I don't know how to do this. Is the 3rd command in your line "cl_refresh_sync false" to disable this aspect of processing? I've always been pretttty dissatisfied with my frames per second, lol. x_x Seems like you're a bit over emphatic though, Albright. Thanks tons for the work so far, Imago-Quem.