Griffinhart wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

would dev's be willing to limit RA's to past tier masters?  meaning only T7 and down.     that would allow for players to get masters that are next to impossible to find with out killing a major part of character proggresion. 

 

 

Not really.  It would allow some classes to get rare past tier masters like Rescue, Jester's Cap, etc...  The problem being not all classes have spells like that.  The wizard class, for example, doesn't have a spell that's not upgraded in T8.  At least not one that get's Master level versions.  (Teleports, for example)

Here is my take on RA's.  I'm definately happy to see them.  I raid at least 3 nights a week.  Often times a 4th night.  I also do solo quests or single group instances with guildies a night or two a week.  I got my masters from guildies, raids, groups and when I was able to get them from the broker.  At least when I was able to get them from the broker when they weren't insanely overpriced.  600pp for a spell?  no thank you.  I just don't have that kind of money.  I hear people claiming that they have 1200pp with nothing to spend it on, but I assure you, I am not one of those people.  After more than a year and a half I have managed to get most of my Master Spells.  I only got Fission a week ago!  I still need several more including some of my DPS spells.  A lot of my spells have just never come up for sale on the broker even at inflated prices.  There was a 4 month period when Fission wasn't even for sale, never mind 600+ plat. 

If RA's were in at the release of RoK It would have still taken me over a year to get mastered out and that's with Raiding, grouping and using the broker.  There is still plenty of "progression" left even with RA's.

I'm not so sure that RA's will crash the master market either.  People are still going to want them faster than 1 a month.  So, people will be buying them.  What they won't do is be willing to pay 600+pp for a rarer spell.  On the other hand, all those lower and moderately priced masters will still sell.

Now, I'm not adverse to the idea of turning an Adept 3 scroll in order to "upgrade" to a Master spell, but I am also a Sage, so there is a benefit to that system for me. 

 that is the point, it will allow progression for masters that can't be found period with out *giving away* something that has been earned till this point.   you will still have to earn your current tier masters and will not have to be with out past tier masters you might have missed.   

   i don't like the idea.    there is a few masters that my classes need that just cant be found ie. past tier masters but other then that i still can't see a reason for giving away masters. 

    everyone here should know that eventually classes will be balanced taking certain masters for granted, not adept 3's.    

    no longer will the wizard that looted or purchased ice comet be at an advantage,  master ice comet will just be the norm.  

   all the people here that like the RA's idea are short sighted in the fact that after these changes go live a master ability will no longer be better it will just be the norm, thus will loose their appeal and you will have no one to blame but your selfs.   

  im against soe taking away part of my progression path but i like the idea of being able to obtain masters that almost don't exist.

Davngr1 wrote:

Griffinhart wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

would dev's be willing to limit RA's to past tier masters?  meaning only T7 and down.     that would allow for players to get masters that are next to impossible to find with out killing a major part of character proggresion. 

 

 

Not really.  It would allow some classes to get rare past tier masters like Rescue, Jester's Cap, etc...  The problem being not all classes have spells like that.  The wizard class, for example, doesn't have a spell that's not upgraded in T8.  At least not one that get's Master level versions.  (Teleports, for example)

Here is my take on RA's.  I'm definately happy to see them.  I raid at least 3 nights a week.  Often times a 4th night.  I also do solo quests or single group instances with guildies a night or two a week.  I got my masters from guildies, raids, groups and when I was able to get them from the broker.  At least when I was able to get them from the broker when they weren't insanely overpriced.  600pp for a spell?  no thank you.  I just don't have that kind of money.  I hear people claiming that they have 1200pp with nothing to spend it on, but I assure you, I am not one of those people.  After more than a year and a half I have managed to get most of my Master Spells.  I only got Fission a week ago!  I still need several more including some of my DPS spells.  A lot of my spells have just never come up for sale on the broker even at inflated prices.  There was a 4 month period when Fission wasn't even for sale, never mind 600+ plat. 

If RA's were in at the release of RoK It would have still taken me over a year to get mastered out and that's with Raiding, grouping and using the broker.  There is still plenty of "progression" left even with RA's.

I'm not so sure that RA's will crash the master market either.  People are still going to want them faster than 1 a month.  So, people will be buying them.  What they won't do is be willing to pay 600+pp for a rarer spell.  On the other hand, all those lower and moderately priced masters will still sell.

Now, I'm not adverse to the idea of turning an Adept 3 scroll in order to "upgrade" to a Master spell, but I am also a Sage, so there is a benefit to that system for me. 

 that is the point, it will allow progression for masters that can't be found period with out *giving away* something that has been earned till this point.   you will still have to earn your current tier masters and will not have to be with out past tier masters you might have missed.   

 

   i don't like the idea.    there is a few masters that my classes need that just cant be found ie. past tier masters but other then that i still can't see a reason for giving away masters. 

    everyone here should know that eventually classes will be balanced taking certain masters for granted, not adept 3's.    

    no longer will the wizard that looted or purchased ice comet be at an advantage,  master ice comet will just be the norm.  

   all the people here that like the RA's idea are short sighted in the fact that after these changes go live a master ability will no longer be better it will just be the norm, thus will loose their appeal and you will have no one to blame but your selfs.   

 

  im against soe taking away part of my progression path but i like the idea of being able to obtain masters that almost don't exist.

 

in other words - let it benefit SOME classes but not others all of them - seems very fair and equitable to me.......

Please spend some time proving the petty fact that you state -  "all the people here that like the RA's idea are short sighted in the fact that after these changes go live a master ability will no longer be better it will just be the norm, thus will loose their appeal and you will have no one to blame but your selfs.   " since it appears you just want the RA's to be worthwhile to specific classes. Sorry, don't work that way

the tank rebalance was a heads up  that they will be merging spells/abilities in the class rebalancing

if they dont have the dev's to even come up with unique names for the level 81 thru 90 version of spells then i dont see them having the resources to come up with even more spells and abilities.

the staple in eq2 has always been to take away your existing spells/abilities and then make you have to get them again thru aa's.

i see all classes getting spell/ability consolidation's with the class revamp . the very large majority already stated they do not want spell consolidation, and when they tried to do it with just a few Tank spells the Vast majority wasnt happy about that.  like usual it ws just put on the back burner till people calm down, but eventualy it will go in as an update

the Devs acts like they listen to the playerbase, they remove the spell consolidation idea when people are pissed about it, but then try to slid it in with tank reblance, IMO when classes get rebalanced you will see all classes getting spell consolidations

and """"""less spells/abilities mean you need even less masters""""

with all the other dumb down ideas that eq2 has seen over the last 4 years, and now free masters, there isnt much left that they can dumb down, except to remove spells and abilities to make the classes so easy anyone can play them in any situation.

nearly anything in the game that longtime players earned over the years has been made easier time and time again, free masters now lol, its sadly funny in a way

with free masters the game truly is starting to play itself. 

something earned is always more rewarding then something freely gotten.  there definitly should be some lengthy requirements to aquire these masters.  if there is a Month in between the time you can get another one, then you should have to be filling requirement in that month. have to do a certain amount of Writs, have to hearvest a certain amount, have kill some specific mobs, etc etc,,,

you dont just give Shards away to solo players, they have to atleast do some quests to obtain them , it should be the same with the masters but be alot more involved so that the majority of people would only do it to get there most important masters and then just quest,group,raid,buy the rest of them

Some good points, if there are no tiers and master is the norm why have tiers or individuality.  Just give everyone everything.

SOE IS FAMOUS FOR BEING SHORT SIGHTED. 

I hope for everyone they have learned from their many many past mistakes. 

Some of those past mistakes where they were short sighted and didn't listen to the players probably cost them millions in SWG alone.

Wingrider01 wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Griffinhart wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

would dev's be willing to limit RA's to past tier masters?  meaning only T7 and down.     that would allow for players to get masters that are next to impossible to find with out killing a major part of character proggresion. 

 

 

Not really.  It would allow some classes to get rare past tier masters like Rescue, Jester's Cap, etc...  The problem being not all classes have spells like that.  The wizard class, for example, doesn't have a spell that's not upgraded in T8.  At least not one that get's Master level versions.  (Teleports, for example)

Here is my take on RA's.  I'm definately happy to see them.  I raid at least 3 nights a week.  Often times a 4th night.  I also do solo quests or single group instances with guildies a night or two a week.  I got my masters from guildies, raids, groups and when I was able to get them from the broker.  At least when I was able to get them from the broker when they weren't insanely overpriced.  600pp for a spell?  no thank you.  I just don't have that kind of money.  I hear people claiming that they have 1200pp with nothing to spend it on, but I assure you, I am not one of those people.  After more than a year and a half I have managed to get most of my Master Spells.  I only got Fission a week ago!  I still need several more including some of my DPS spells.  A lot of my spells have just never come up for sale on the broker even at inflated prices.  There was a 4 month period when Fission wasn't even for sale, never mind 600+ plat. 

If RA's were in at the release of RoK It would have still taken me over a year to get mastered out and that's with Raiding, grouping and using the broker.  There is still plenty of "progression" left even with RA's.

I'm not so sure that RA's will crash the master market either.  People are still going to want them faster than 1 a month.  So, people will be buying them.  What they won't do is be willing to pay 600+pp for a rarer spell.  On the other hand, all those lower and moderately priced masters will still sell.

Now, I'm not adverse to the idea of turning an Adept 3 scroll in order to "upgrade" to a Master spell, but I am also a Sage, so there is a benefit to that system for me. 

 that is the point, it will allow progression for masters that can't be found period with out *giving away* something that has been earned till this point.   you will still have to earn your current tier masters and will not have to be with out past tier masters you might have missed.   

 

   i don't like the idea.    there is a few masters that my classes need that just cant be found ie. past tier masters but other then that i still can't see a reason for giving away masters. 

    everyone here should know that eventually classes will be balanced taking certain masters for granted, not adept 3's.    

    no longer will the wizard that looted or purchased ice comet be at an advantage,  master ice comet will just be the norm.  

   all the people here that like the RA's idea are short sighted in the fact that after these changes go live a master ability will no longer be better it will just be the norm, thus will loose their appeal and you will have no one to blame but your selfs.   

 

  im against soe taking away part of my progression path but i like the idea of being able to obtain masters that almost don't exist.

 

in other words - let it benefit SOME classes but not others all of them - seems very fair and equitable to me.......

Please spend some time proving the petty fact that you state -  "all the people here that like the RA's idea are short sighted in the fact that after these changes go live a master ability will no longer be better it will just be the norm, thus will loose their appeal and you will have no one to blame but your selfs.   " since it appears you just want the RA's to be worthwhile to specific classes. Sorry, don't work that way

  yes well  there IS a niche for RA's to fill it just should not be to trivialize a proggresion path.

  fact is after this is live everyone will loose at least one way of progressing their character, there will no longer be a dash to fully master your character those masters will be given to you no matter what and thus it will loose it's appeal, since it will become comon placed all defilers will have a master group ward, all wiz will have ice nova, all summoners will have a master tank pet and so on and so forth.  it will no longer be proggresion it will just be part of the game thus will loose it's reward value. 

   BTW wingri your post speaks volumes about your take on the game and how egocentric you and people who think this idea is good are.     you argue that only some classes will be able to take advantage of a system that gives them acces to impossible to find masters YET you brush off that it's those very classes that have been screwed over by the current spell proggresion.

I think that the best way to go about this is to take a vote or lison to what people are having to say. This is going to be a change that has not point at all and will make a good amount of people lose intrest in the game. It will be a change that once put into game wont be a "hot fix" that you can come in a change. People will be racing to get there masters rolling.

Vinsin@Kithicor wrote:

I think that the best way to go about this is to take a vote or lison to what people are having to say. This is going to be a change that has not point at all and will make a good amount of people lose intrest in the game. It will be a change that once put into game wont be a "hot fix" that you can come in a change. People will be racing to get there masters rolling.

An in game vote would be very expensive to orchestrate.  One on these boards only would be lop sided.

better then pushing somthing out that they will regret

Silken@Butcherblock wrote:

An in game vote would be very expensive to orchestrate.  One on these boards only would be lop sided.

These boards seem to represent a fairly accurate cross section of the playerbase imo.

There are obviously some very small minorities that are not represented, but as a cross section of the playerbase its probably quite close to whats in game.

Noaani wrote:

Silken@Butcherblock wrote:

An in game vote would be very expensive to orchestrate.  One on these boards only would be lop sided.

These boards seem to represent a fairly accurate cross section of the playerbase imo.

There are obviously some very small minorities that are not represented, but as a cross section of the playerbase its probably quite close to whats in game.

I disagree.  I think these boards represent self interested and hard core players and keepers of the flame far more than casual players.  However, if there is a vote, the casual player deserves as much of a chance to vote as those who follow these boards. 

Silken@Butcherblock wrote:

Noaani wrote:

Silken@Butcherblock wrote:

An in game vote would be very expensive to orchestrate.  One on these boards only would be lop sided.

These boards seem to represent a fairly accurate cross section of the playerbase imo.

There are obviously some very small minorities that are not represented, but as a cross section of the playerbase its probably quite close to whats in game.

I disagree.  I think these boards represent self interested and hard core players and keepers of the flame far more than casual players.  However, if there is a vote, the casual player deserves as much of a chance to vote as those who follow these boards.

Votes of unequal knowlege and investment should not be equal. The only reason it's allowed in the real world is because the alternative is proven unworkable. A mass poll/vote to decide on the RA is as bad as the votes were for spell names and the ridiculously low turn-out for them shows. Unless EQ2 has less than 20k subscribers, there is no way that vote can be remotely close to popularly decided. The better move there as here is to sit down and actually think through want is wanted/ needed and go that way.  Maybe the current RA is that for the Devs but since they still refuse to give us more than fluff responses on the issue, we can't know.

What i would have liked to hear " Coming in the Next LU, a brand new Never ending Quest(insert fancy questline name, like Heritage or signature)  line that will reward you once a month for progressing the quest with a Master of your chioce for your class, the quest will be completely soloable(but bringing freinds never hurts )

(quest part each month will take between 8 to10 hours gametime Solo(if you group it would most likely be 5 to 6 hours) , since you have 30 days to complete it, that should not be an issue for 100% of the players)

what i do hear " coming in next LU , freemasters once a month " /just sad and weak, and /Lazy

with just a little creativiity, people could actualy do a Fun quest line that never ends. and this is everQuest isnt it ?

the main staple of alot of the Nerf's in eq2 over the years has always been " The FUN is in Playing the game" so when did that change to " the FUN is just getting stuff becuase you Pay to Play"

.

what happend to all the extra development becuase of Stationcash Money Flowing in like crazy becuase it was Such a huge success? all we see is everything getting taken away,dumb down, and given away , there is no Development in giving away free masters . thats a cop out, 

earning a free master a month thru game play = Win

getting a free master just becuase you Pay = Lame

Deson wrote:

A mass poll/vote to decide on the RA is as bad as the votes were for spell names and the ridiculously low turn-out for them shows. Unless EQ2 has less than 20k subscribers, there is no way that vote can be remotely close to popularly decided.

There was a guy I talked with recently about the game (he was wondering why I'm so picky about game details). And his viewpoint of wanting to eat the sausage instead of knowing how it's made, is an example why forum turn out is low (let alone how ban happy this forum is to repel participation).

Polls here would be those with a vested interest, and usually those of a modding/coding mindset. It's not the representation of the game, where most don't care of the backend of games. So if a poll was made, it'll have to reach a larger audience -- like the gamers who don't even read channel chat -- to be more unbiased.

Kigneer wrote:

Polls here would be those with a vested interest...

This is why self-selecting polls (which is the term that actually describe what's going on here) are generally considered to be valueless; the poll only reaches those who already have "selected" themselves as being interested in the topic being polled on.

In truth, the kind of polling that SOE is doing is really a form a crowdsourcing being used as sort of community-based design for various parts of the game (the spell renaming is an example of this), as well as for trial balloons to gauge reactions. Their "polls" aren't really polls in the traditional sense of an objective analysis of customer opinion.

Deson wrote:

Silken@Butcherblock wrote:

Noaani wrote:

Silken@Butcherblock wrote:

An in game vote would be very expensive to orchestrate.  One on these boards only would be lop sided.

These boards seem to represent a fairly accurate cross section of the playerbase imo.

There are obviously some very small minorities that are not represented, but as a cross section of the playerbase its probably quite close to whats in game.

I disagree.  I think these boards represent self interested and hard core players and keepers of the flame far more than casual players.  However, if there is a vote, the casual player deserves as much of a chance to vote as those who follow these boards.

Votes of unequal knowlege and investment should not be equal. The only reason it's allowed in the real world is because the alternative is proven unworkable. A mass poll/vote to decide on the RA is as bad as the votes were for spell names and the ridiculously low turn-out for them shows. Unless EQ2 has less than 20k subscribers, there is no way that vote can be remotely close to popularly decided. The better move there as here is to sit down and actually think through want is wanted/ needed and go that way.  Maybe the current RA is that for the Devs but since they still refuse to give us more than fluff responses on the issue, we can't know.

Perhaps you don't come from a country with compulsory voting at elections....... (or you do and disagree with it) - Unworkable alternatives - lots of places might take issue there too lol.

Also - unequal investment? Is your time played in eq2 worth more than your $$$ subs? That these boards represent a typical cross section of the players is extremely questionable. My guild has numerous members yet I have never seen any of them post in the forums - some have been playing since EQ2 started up so they are not just new players yet to find them. I try to keep the guild informed in guild chat - and am regularly asked - "where do I find this stuff?", then "which forums?"