Malistroi wrote:

Oh and btw, you mentioned that I needed resists to take on the Lich Overlord...well if you check out my sig, I have all the resists I ever need; as a matter of fact, in my current build, I can max AR, DR, plus any of the other resists on demand without any outside assistance whatsoever (AR, PR, DR or AR, DR, LR, or AR, DR, CR, or AR, DR, FR)...

Heck, again just to illustrate just how uber a well built necromancer can be, I have a Chosen build where I can max AR, PR, DR plus any of the other elements on demand without any outside assistance whatsoever (AR, PR, DR, LR or AR, PR, DR, CR...ect); in this Chosen build, in my tank gear, AR, PR, DR are maxed and all my other elements are at 245 or better (meaning that I resist LR, FR, and CR atleast 70% of the time), while maintaining stacking DS's, 430 agi, and 3 defensive mods...

See, thats how a "real" necromancer build looks...

Chosen necromancers have cm freedom, big deal....i can max ar pr and dr on my defiler with little to no effort.

maxing resists is a joke on any toon now since cb, the exception being ar...minus the chosen necs who i believe have racial (and mc?) ar.

The class doesn't need an overhaul, just some tweaks to even it out.

On a side note, i love red wine on raids when the enchs and bards aren't around....simple and effective to hit one drink every 4 taunts

I respectfully disagree with the jack-of-all trades topic. There is one distinct area that all necs excel at in the Caster archetype, and that is undead nukes. No other caster gets undead nukes nor undead charms. And yes RSD or Tinker Construct are hands-down awesome pets compared to charmable undead mobs. The fact remains necs do command the undead realms. ZP nuke plus taps plus undead nukes plus FR nuke plus pacts plus pet DD = awesomeness. But the fact that a nec is a great group addition is not in question. I just can't recall a recent raid in the last year that a Necromancer was asked to come up and join us. Sad but true.

Okay heres a few examples as I remember.. Classes complained about their class not being needed on raids before CB. Monks got sweet sensei upgrades and now you see them more often on raids, Pally and SK both got improvements because before CB majority of people used Defenders only on raid mobs and now you see them tanking alot more raid mobs. They asked for changes because majority of times raids did not need or want them, I think thats a fair assessment I know 5 years ago I'd see bards,hunters and rogues at raids and I'd be asked to bring my nec instead of my monk but thats pretty much switched these days if I wanted to bring my sensei I doubt anyone would say oh no bring your nec.

I'd say look at the variety of dd or support classes and ask yourself would the guild benefit or ask you to bring a certain class over your nec?

Nec or wizard ? I'd say 90% of the time people would prefer a wiz to a nec.. exceptions being zerges like DTT of KV

Nec or Mage? I'd say at least 75% of the time a mage would be better

Nec or enchanter? If there isn't any enchanter this be 100% enchanter and even if there was one it still be better to have a 2nd chanter.

Nec or Alc? Majority of time an Alc would be preferred... meds,pills, rat debuff, lr debuff, recons

Nec or Bard? Bard hands down

Nec or rogue? Majority of the time rogue for debuffs and daggers

Nec or Monk? 50-50 shot..sensei or nec be about equal and all dependant on raid mob

Nec or Ranger? Okay I'll 90% of the time a nec would be preferred, rangers are nice for kiting tho and melee weak mobs

Majority of the time another class would be preferred, only exception to this would be if your guild was short stacks on raid which does happen. But then ask yourself would a nec be preferred over a stack cleric, druid or shaman then? Nope, I think thats what the majority of people are talking about here, I personally am just stating my opinion I could care less if necs get improved or not seeing I won't make one on PPO basically because of what I listed above..lol

Keep the same, I think I just like expressing my opinion on forums and obviously keeping them the same isn't gonna overpower them so I could care less..lol

Malistroi wrote:

Just to comment on your comparison of necromancers to alche's Wiked, I also believe that Alches are overpowered; they are not jack of all trades characters, but (as you pointed with everything they are capable of doing) are more like a King or Queen of all trades character...

If we are to makes everyone more in line with what they are capable of doing, then everyone needs to be buffed...IMHO.

They can't out heal a healer, out dps a sorcerer, can't out dps any melee class if the fight is melee friendly, can't out mana a bard or enc so King or Queen of all trades doesn't really fly. A necro can't do any of that either, and I don't want them too but their damage should be on par so they don't get laughed out of the raid if someone wants to dps on their necro.Don't even need to buff necro damage to do that, pretty much give them pr and dr debuffs and its all gravy.

You play your class because its your main and the toon you put so much work into, do you even have any lvl 60 alts? You shouldn't let the fact you have builded your toon into something great with mass CMs, WH abilities etc. A class shouldn't need all that to just be viable outside of being a junk grind toon on a alt account.

There is no possible to make any comparison between chemists and necs. Keep the comparisons to at least pet casters. Chemists are in no way, shape or form, overpowered, saying this is just plain inflammatory. From beta testing chemists were designed as the heavy damage general utility class specialist that they are today. So drop it. Go back and read the the op's original post on this thread...

all i can say is that nec paths need upgraded alot because they are not verry usefull at all at 60, arnt path spells supost to be your most usefull spells you have?

i think the are fine as dds there pets with mop are awsome, the pacts are nec pacts not clr insta heals so i dont expect them to be awsome

i have a nec with 1400 cms and he is a beast

i think every class is pretty well balanced really

id like to see one more spell quest that gives lvl 60s something that is totaly class defining and totaly awsome

something like

necro=massive aoe double dot of PR and DR, 10 tick of 4k damage each tick and all mobs infected with the dot get the apearence of a ghoul while infected, also the dot steals AR from the mobs giving it to the necro as a buff of 200 AR for the duration the mobs are infected, the dot also stax with all your other dots aswell

I think that would be overpowering, not just a little overpowering but alot overpowering..Incoming Bpoa cleric mass pulling and nec casts 1 spell that accounts for 40k dmg (4k X 10 ticks)...lol Yeah I'd have to pass on that..lol I think tfgs have about 10-12k hp

DjEdge wrote:

all i can say is that nec paths need upgraded alot because they are not verry usefull at all at 60, arnt path spells supost to be your most usefull spells you have?

i think the are fine as dds there pets with mop are awsome, the pacts are nec pacts not clr insta heals so i dont expect them to be awsome

i have a nec with 1400 cms and he is a beast

i think every class is pretty well balanced really

id like to see one more spell quest that gives lvl 60s something that is totaly class defining and totaly awsome

something like

necro=massive aoe double dot of PR and DR, 10 tick of 4k damage each tick and all mobs infected with the dot get the apearence of a ghoul while infected, also the dot steals AR from the mobs giving it to the necro as a buff of 200 AR for the duration the mobs are infected, the dot also stax with all your other dots aswell

So... You say necro damage is fine... then you go on to say they should get this ability which would be one of the most overpowered dmg spells in the game by a significant margin. 40k damage from one cast, multiplied if mobs in aoe. So which is it pal? Necro damage is fine or necros need to be the best DD in the game?

Wikedlyrics wrote:

DjEdge wrote:

all i can say is that nec paths need upgraded alot because they are not verry usefull at all at 60, arnt path spells supost to be your most usefull spells you have?

i think the are fine as dds there pets with mop are awsome, the pacts are nec pacts not clr insta heals so i dont expect them to be awsome

i have a nec with 1400 cms and he is a beast

i think every class is pretty well balanced really

id like to see one more spell quest that gives lvl 60s something that is totaly class defining and totaly awsome

something like

necro=massive aoe double dot of PR and DR, 10 tick of 4k damage each tick and all mobs infected with the dot get the apearence of a ghoul while infected, also the dot steals AR from the mobs giving it to the necro as a buff of 200 AR for the duration the mobs are infected, the dot also stax with all your other dots aswell

 

So... You say necro damage is fine... then you go on to say they should get this ability which would be one of the most overpowered dmg spells in the game by a significant margin. 40k damage from one cast, multiplied if mobs in aoe. So which is it pal? Necro damage is fine or necros need to be the best DD in the game?

I am hoping this was an exaggeration. If this happened "Hail EQON....Everquest Online Necromancers". 

Ascotthowe wrote:

Wikedlyrics wrote:

DjEdge wrote:

all i can say is that nec paths need upgraded alot because they are not verry usefull at all at 60, arnt path spells supost to be your most usefull spells you have?

i think the are fine as dds there pets with mop are awsome, the pacts are nec pacts not clr insta heals so i dont expect them to be awsome

i have a nec with 1400 cms and he is a beast

i think every class is pretty well balanced really

id like to see one more spell quest that gives lvl 60s something that is totaly class defining and totaly awsome

something like

necro=massive aoe double dot of PR and DR, 10 tick of 4k damage each tick and all mobs infected with the dot get the apearence of a ghoul while infected, also the dot steals AR from the mobs giving it to the necro as a buff of 200 AR for the duration the mobs are infected, the dot also stax with all your other dots aswell

 

So... You say necro damage is fine... then you go on to say they should get this ability which would be one of the most overpowered dmg spells in the game by a significant margin. 40k damage from one cast, multiplied if mobs in aoe. So which is it pal? Necro damage is fine or necros need to be the best DD in the game?

I am hoping this was an exaggeration. If this happened "Hail EQON....Everquest Online Necromancers". 

lmao it was just a joke guys i was havin some fun coming up with class specific spells for the next lvl of uber raiding haha but doesnt that spell sound awsome lol

to further state how i feel about necs

they are fine, i just think htere path spells need doubled so they actualy make a diference

the pr dr debuff would be fine, maybe even a larger mod on ignite bones.

Personally i think the wis mod on our heals is bad, the difference between 600 wis and 425 wis is negligible at best. It took quite a bit of work to get wis maxed without sacrificing on other stats and the reward for that is just not there. The int mod for the pet heals is also terrible, again the difference between 575 int and 425 int is minimal. As far as dd abilities the higher level nukes could use a bigger mod or a debuff that correlates to that particular resist.

redwingsfan wrote:

Personally i think the wis mod on our heals is bad, the difference between 600 wis and 425 wis is negligible at best. It took quite a bit of work to get wis maxed without sacrificing on other stats and the reward for that is just not there. The int mod for the pet heals is also terrible, again the difference between 575 int and 425 int is minimal. As far as dd abilities the higher level nukes could use a bigger mod or a debuff that correlates to that particular resist.

Well if you think about it a good nec will have high int,sta,wis,dex and max AR thats 5 stats really and I'd say most necs put a little in agi just to take hits better and possibly max DR. Other classes that have numerous stats to play with bard (str/sta/agi/dex/cha= 5) and monks (str/sta/dex/ wis or int or both), thing is bards have numerous buffs to help max str/dex/cha and agi and monks have fotm as rangers have wolf instinct all necs really have is ST buff to cover all those stats and if you look at the MCs for nec..

Lich gives stat maxes no stats and defiler gets 50 dex and some stat maxes (although there req cm and MC gives pr and dr). My point , is that it would be really nice to have a better wis mod on the pacts seeing that its ALOT of stats to cover and we really don't get buffs or tps to cover those stats. Or at least the other suggestion of upping the hot buff would do.