Pvp balance, buff vs numbers?

**Natasha768**

The Leo wrote:

I highly doubt 2 people who stood their ground against 7 have survived for more than 30 seconds, let alone kill 3 of the other guys.

It went on for 2-3 mins, the two individuals moved down the steps defeating all 7, however no more than 5 enemys were engaging the 2 at the same time. Loadouts the two had.. one Nuker sim+guns, the other I think guns+weak team heal+baby rez. After about 4 died the person with nuker sim was defeated & baby rezed unexpectedly, then quickly spawned nuker sim again.. two continued to move down steps defeating the last of the 7.

ThePigeonKing

The Leo wrote:

Natasha768 wrote:
I don't think there needs to be "catch up mode" like in children's multi-player car racing games.

If an experienced and confident player meets with two level 50's they have never heard of, the two level 50's are in a world of trouble. I don't believe in level cap of 50, equipment/experience/confidence can make a level 50 into a lvl 60.

With CR2 I have seen 2 win against 7, in CR1 I have seen 1 against 7 hold out for a very long time killing most of them. It's not the norm but it is within reach.

I highly doubt 2 people who stood their ground against 7 have survived for more than 30 seconds, let alone kill 3 of the other guys.

When you face 7 people who don't know how to PvP, it's like attacking a box of kittens.

**Marias**

Teamwork helps. 6 v 13 in Datamine.

**Haxadec**

Iv once soloed 4 people with MA....but that was a long time ago and mostly luck.

If 9mmfu doesint want use to win against numbers then maybe i should stop pvping lmao. its not that hard to beat 2 or even 3 people...and mkt CAN be countered but its like any other tree, it depends more on the person your fighting. It all depeneds on who your fighting (im refraining from mentioning specific names of people iv soloed when they had numbers)....soloing 2 or 3 people who know how to pvp is many orders of magnitute harder then soloing 2 or 3 people that never pvp.

other things that effect it are like...soloing 2 gunman is generally harder then 2 MAs because the MAs are of such limited help to one another while outside IL. I remember back when i was running gunman alot I soloed these 2 other gunmen...we were on this little ledge on the side of the church in marac...just went at it toe to toe....gunman vs 2gunman....as fair as a 2v1 fight can be. it was brutal (like a gunfight in an elevator hehe) there were no dirty tricks or heals or buffs or anything like that and we all 3 started at full health. these two were pretty promenent figures in a major faction and each of them were very good gunmen who pvped frequently...I killed one and then he reconned and came back and started attacking me while I was fighting the other...I died like 3 seconds after I killed the second guy. the whole fight took maybe 4-5 mins.

btw..."soloing" should be clarified as some people have a definition that I disagree with...To me soloing 2 people means that the 3 of you started at full health and you killed them both without any outside help and while they both were focusing all of their fire on you and no one else AND there is NO break between killing one and moving on to the next one. Some people think that if you kill someone, HJ away and heall up and come back and kill a second person then you have just soloed 2 people....this is just wrong.

**Ballak**

SolidRevolver wrote:

The Leo wrote:
I highly doubt 2 people who stood their ground against 7 have survived for more than 30 seconds, let alone kill 3 of the other guys.

Not unless they had about 4 of every piece of clothing " width="15" height="15" />

It's called 2 Snipers. gf

**Travi**

Is grab spamming considered a buff? Given it's ~~30% 300%~~ 3000% defense bonus? (sarcasm)
Most of it comes down to numbers in this system, and given the amount of loopholes that can be found in this system (like the Grab-Power-Grab-Power spam that almost EVERY MA in the game does, except for maybe a few that realize there are two others tactics), buffs help out very little usually, but it all depends on how much your roll want to hurt you.

While I've never seen 2 take on 7, except for the two being snipers - I have seen buffed groupmembers of 6 or so take out 10 or so.

Somedays, I have good PvP days, others - I couldn't land a hit if my life depended on it, as I've yet to find a good counter for the Grab-Power spam...

I've tried many different variations and nothing seems to work, not even Speed helps a lot.

**GypsyJuggler**

Grab is a tactic to be used like any other - although it may be the least 'balanced' tactic of the four. The practice of switching tactics during a round is a nigh unavoidable aspect of the combat system embodying a technical exploit on the verge of declassification. Basically it wasn't an intended part of CR2 but considering our circumstances there's not a lot which can be done about it.

Zudrag · 05/10/2008 08:19:04

People need to get away from the stigma of "lol u brought heals 2 pvp u r suk".

Heals can be a very important part of PVP and PVE combat. They can often turn the tide of combat.

With a bit of superior healing, a smaller number of people can take on a larger amount of people, as can loadouts that deal a high enough amount of damage and still be able to heal themselves (Such as Improved hacking + Artillerist loadouts, and Upgrade Master loaded with a few heals).

The Artillerist + IH loadout I am saddened is not used more in PVP when people are trying to take on a larger amount of people. A howitzer or two with such a person with that loadout backing them up can quickly cut down a very large group of opponents.

Croesis

Zudrag wrote:

People need to get away from the stigma of "lol u brought heals 2 pvp u r suk".

Heals can be a very important part of PVP and PVE combat. They can often turn the tide of combat.

With a bit of superior healing, a smaller number of people can take on a larger amount of people, as can loadouts that deal a high enough amount of damage and still be able to heal themselves (Such as Improved hacking + Artillerist loadouts, and Upgrade Master loaded with a few heals).

The Artillerist + IH loadout I am saddened is not used more in PVP when people are trying to take on a larger amount of people. A howitzer or two with such a person with that loadout backing them up can quickly cut down a very large group of opponents.

Personally, I've not been bothered if my side had numbers and the opponant brought out the heals to combat their lack of numbers. What does make me laugh is when my side is outnumbered perhaps by a lot or perhaps by one or two and the side with numbers break out the heals. Far be it for me to say they shouldn't do it, but I think that is where the stigma of heals originated from.

**Pylat**

All sides have brought out heals when they have had numbers or when they are being zerged. MA + Sniper/MKT = Quickly dead healer.

Heck recently I beat a healer in IL with Sniper/Rifles/Duelist loaded while two Riflemen pegged me from out of IL. It's not as hard as they say it is.

**Cadsuane** · 05/10/2008 17:38:58

Zudrag wrote:

The Artillerist + IH loadout I am saddened is not used more in PVP when people are trying to take on a larger amount of people. A howitzer or two with such a person with that loadout backing them up can quickly cut down a very large group of opponents.

This is quite true as Syntax.Mara found out yesterday but it also indirectly brings up another interesting point. While I've seen groups designate tasks in pvp ("You get heals and I'll go hacker") I'm not sure I've ever seen a group of people using loadouts and tactics specifically designed to be used together. Having a 'set-piece' loaded might slightly reduce your personal power but would greatly increase the effectiveness of even a small group of players.

**Harpadzo**

The_Bruceter wrote:

Naw buffin ain't my style and MA > any other load
Yeah u can beat a couple of people 1 afta another but thats when theres only about 3, what about when its >5 kinda thing. U'r just screwed

I managed it not to long ago TM aikido plus thrown def FTW

Agreed, the advantage of a super buffer is nullified when more than 3 AND the right mix (Hackers, MS's, MKT's) show up - strip'em, lock'em down, beat'em down FTW.

**Harpadzo**

The Leo wrote:

Was just thinking it would be nice to balance pvp towards the solo ppl with some kind passive buff tht increases depending on enemies in certain radius around. I don't only mean for MAs or only while in IL but something with awakened maybe.

PvP is fine the way it is - cept for the stupid smack talk; thank god for ignore.

No single individual should be able to systematically take on and kill more that 3 opponents, no matter how good they are in PvP.

Then there's the zerg - well such is life. I've been zerged, but I've been part of a zerg too. I've seen some of the best die just the same as the rest, so I change strategies and even LO's.

**Harpadzo**

Natasha768 wrote:

I don't think there needs to be "catch up mode" like in children's multi-player car racing games.

If an experienced and confident player meets with two level 50's they have never heard of, the two level 50's are in a world of trouble. I don't believe in level cap of 50, equipment/experience/confidence can make a level 50 into a lvl 60.

With CR2 I have seen 2 win against 7, in CR1 I have seen 1 against 7 hold out for a very long time killing most of them. It's not the norm but it is within reach.

I agree 100%, and to add, communications is KEY!

I've seen a zerg; hell I even heard some say is the game on easy mode - lmao. That's because of NO organization and communication and lack of the right mix to counter opposition. Once organized, easy mode went away.

Confidence and experience go a long way, but if you're not part of a group and communicating, you're supposed to lose.

**Harpadzo**

TimeMaker wrote:

Now do that with two mkts...

Agreed, Zudrag, I've not seen you succeed with that at DM with the right mix - you've been killed too.

Like TimeMaker said, I doubt you'll have it easy with a hacker and mkt's/ms's present.