[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07

**Merchant** · 08/14/2007 22:45:28

Understandable. My view on Zion's population was geared toward a Machine file hackable from a mission that I once ran, detailing that Zion, the original, and this was oh, I'd say at least half a year back, was reaching it's full capacity based on an assessment of it's design by the Machines. I should have detailed all the sources I was using, one was the Architect detailing how there had been several Zion's, including the small number that Neo would be allowed to keep alive, another was the Morpheus quote, but I was also using that file I just mentioned which detailed they would soon reach full capacity. When coupled with another file that you could hack from a computer on the Machine side from an even earlier mission, the one detailing how Zion could not account for several thousand tons worth of machinery and materials, it was obvious that a base was being constructed, or that it was merely a matter of time before it was made. I always try to incorporate all the sources I come across, no matter how old.

**GamiSB** · 08/15/2007 08:36:12

Ah, thank you very much for that and its very helpful indeed. If what they say is true then I must admit then that we won't have hundreds of cities around the earths core at any time soon. However I stand by saying the with there only being roughly 60 million potentials within the Matrix and the average birth, death, and extraction rates rates, Zion and New Zion are not likely to be at risk of over population. Expecaily now that we have a war going on, it tends to lessen the number of redpills in Zion a bit.

**Illyria22**

GamiSB wrote:

However I stand by saying the with there only being roughly 600k potentials within the Matrix

One percent of 6 billion is 60 million, not 600 thousand.

Illyria

**GamiSB**

Woops, forgot an extra zero.

**Croesis**

GamiSB wrote:

Well apparently you don't use them as much as you should. The context of these quotes is the Merovingian sending out operatives to interview Raini, a former program that oversaw the fission process before she exiled and the machines switched to fusion. And Silver a known expert researcher for his opinion on if the human body could produce enough energy to fuel a city.
Raini: Oh, poo! You're no fun. All right, all right... Lemme tell you, anyone who talks up fusion is usually a pipe-dreamer. Yeah, so fusion of deuterium produces more power than fission of an equivalent amount of uranium, results in less radioactive waste... But do you know what it takes to get fusion to work? You've got to hit the Lawson triple product, you need some kind of containment: plasma, or magnetic, maybe... Well anyway, it isn't easy! I don't see why the Machines would go with fusion over fission - it's not like they're worried about polluting or anything.
Silver: No, no, no... It doesn't matter what kind of fusion they may have come up with; even if it does utilize some type of biological reaction, there's no getting around the fact that the most perfectly - and I use that term relatively - conditioned human body is only about twenty five percent energy-efficient; the units dredged out of the pods can hardly can hardly be said to be in peak physical condition. Even if they could siphon off most of the energy produced - and I think we can admit that they must save most of the twenty percent of it normally used for brain function - they're still losing a significant amount of power in your flabby carcasses!
If you still believe that there isn't more to it then just "humans supply the power" after reading those two quotes then this discussion ends here.

Whilst I can't disagree with these two... people... after all, I am no expert on any of these fields. However, one who got exiled because the Machines preferred fusion over fission, and another who hates human beings and may have his own agenda...
It is remarkable how you would take these comments at face value....

**TheMagus** · 09/02/2007 17:07:16

Heh. In the end, Pace's ordering of a bluepill, guilty only of the crime of thinking that there's something wrong about the world around him, to be killed, is pretty *CENSORED* hilarious.

**Croesis**

TheMagus wrote:

Heh. In the end, Pace's ordering of a bluepill, guilty only of the crime of thinking that there's something wrong about the world around him, to be killed, is pretty *CENSORED* hilarious.

I don't think that any situation where a bluepill is killed is particularly funny, even if it was deemed by the system as a necessary step in trying to end this war as quickly as possible thus preventing more death.

**GamiSB**

Croesus wrote:

GamiSB wrote:
Well apparently you don't use them as much as you should. The context of these quotes is the Merovingian sending out operatives to interview Raini, a former program that oversaw the fission process before she exiled and the machines switched to fusion. And Silver a known expert researcher for his opinion on if the human body could produce enough energy to fuel a city.
Raini: Oh, poo! You're no fun. All right, all right... Lemme tell you, anyone who talks up fusion is usually a pipe-dreamer. Yeah, so fusion of deuterium produces more power than fission of an equivalent amount of uranium, results in less radioactive waste... But do you know what it takes to get fusion to work? You've got to hit the Lawson triple product, you need some kind of containment: plasma, or magnetic, maybe... Well anyway, it isn't easy! I don't see why the Machines would go with fusion over fission - it's not like they're worried about polluting or anything.
Silver: No, no, no... It doesn't matter what kind of fusion they may have come up with; even if it does utilize some type of biological reaction, there's no getting around the fact that the most perfectly - and I use that term relatively - conditioned human body is only about twenty five percent energy-efficient; the units dredged out of the pods can hardly can hardly be said to be in peak physical condition. Even if they could siphon off most of the energy produced - and I think we can admit that they must save most of the twenty percent of it normally used for brain function - they're still losing a significant amount of power in your flabby carcasses!
If you still believe that there isn't more to it then just "humans supply the power" after reading those two quotes then this discussion ends here.

Whilst I can't disagree with these two... people... after all, I am no expert on any of these fields. However, one who got exiled because the Machines preferred fusion over fission, and another who hates human beings and may have his own agenda...
It is remarkable how you would take these comments at face value....

Hardly, I try to take everything with a grain of salt expecting there to be some bias within it unintential or not. Fact remains though that this is a diffrent image then what the Machine has been painting for us and their explinations are a bit more "informative" then the Machines.

Are they true? Well that remains to be seen but it's foolish just to ignore what they say just because they have a history with the Machine. Every lie has a bit of truth to it after all.

**TheMagus** · 09/07/2007 10:58:52

Croesus wrote:

TheMagus wrote:
Heh. In the end, Pace's ordering of a bluepill, guilty only of the crime of thinking that there's something wrong about the world around him, to be killed, is pretty *CENSORED* hilarious.

I don't think that any situation where a bluepill is killed is particularly funny, even if it was deemed by the system as a necessary step in trying to end this war as quickly as possible thus preventing more death.

It was a "laugh or cry" situation for me. Well, perhaps more "express extreme outrage and shock" than cry, but you get the picture.

**Roukan**

Illyria22 wrote:

Roukan wrote:
I understand the reasoning behind it too, but it still doesn't make it right. The hypocrasy here is astounding with Illyria's case. As someone stated before, killing Agents in self defense is a bad bad naughty move, but killing an innocent bluepill is not.

I'd like to see what Fanaticism and prejudice we've stated. Certainly not I, yet you choose to generalize. Please.

There is a difference between gathering in a group and luring agents out so you can kill them (and their bluepill hosts) for sport and killing a single target for a militarily advantageous reason. Calling the agent/bluepill killings self defense is laughable, because the redpills are in no real danger.
I see fanaticism and prejudice every time I see things like "Zion is humanity" and "I don't consider the bluepills to be human" and "godd@mn toasters" and "Machine b1tch".

Illyria

You think I say those things? I say humanity must strive, bluepills are more important than reds, and that YOU'RE a *CENSORED*. Not machine *CENSORED*.

There is certainly no difference in luring an agent out to kill them, killing a bluepill straight out, or staying in a restricted zone, confusing an agent, and watching him drop dead due to systematic problems.

However, as Vincent says, it's best to ignore you. There's no point in arguing with someone who doesn't believe in honor.

**Illyria22**

Your definition of honor is different than mine.

Illyria

**Roukan** · 09/04/2007 12:59:24

Illyria22 wrote:

Your definition of honor is different than mine.

Illyria

Oh really now? So you believe in something other than working for the benefits of others?

Oh Doh, I just answered my own question, Ms. Bluepill Killer.

**Croesis** · 09/04/2007 13:22:44

honour

hon·or [on-er]–noun
1. honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions: a man of honor.
2. high respect, as for worth, merit, or rank: to be held in honor.

honour doesn't mean working for the benefit of others, it is as stated above.
I believe Illyria can be viewed as someone who has fulfilled these requirements.
Obviously I don't expect you to agree, you seem to view Honour as something completely different.

**Croesis** · 09/04/2007 13:30:09

Oh and I hear that another Org has killed at least one Bluepill as a test subject...

**Illyria22**

I heard that too. But I can predict what Zion/EPN will say...

"It's ok, because they Died Free!"

Illyria