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Lvl 255 agents -_-
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The Matrix Online » Top » Development Discussion » Feedback Forums » Player Versus Environment Feedback Previous Topic  |  Next Topic      Go to Page: Previous  1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7  Next
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Jacked Out

Joined: Apr 3, 2006
Messages: 1568
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Yeah, but this isn't Path of Neo, or Enter the Matrix, or Hello Kitty's Island Adventure. This is The Matrix Online.

Do you want to include all the fanfics and stuff about how the character being wrote about is "Teh one!1111" as well?


Jacked Out

Joined: Feb 14, 2006
Messages: 2407
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No.  I think we just want to be able to have longer, more reasonable fights with some of the agents.

If getting people out of mission areas is so important, leave those agents as they are.  But for the restricted area spawns, change them. Make a new spawn routine with agents that people can stand up to just a little.


Jacked Out

Joined: Sep 18, 2005
Messages: 1204
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I dont mind having level 70 agents aslong as they have a little higher resist's maybe level 100.  I totally agree they kill too quick. Also why not have three level 70 agents spawn on the missions and only one for the restricted areas.


Vindicator

Joined: Aug 1, 2006
Messages: 3144
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Don't forget, Agents have to be strong enough to make up for their lack of AI.  If they weren't able to kill you almost immediately then anyone with hyperjump would be immune altogether. 



Jacked Out

Joined: Aug 29, 2005
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GypsyJuggler wrote:
Don't forget, Agents have to be strong enough to make up for their lack of AI.  If they weren't able to kill you almost immediately then anyone with hyperjump would be immune altogether. 
Not really. They follow ya till u die. They respawn fast.


Vindicator

Joined: Aug 1, 2006
Messages: 3144
Location: New Zealand
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If you can reach a hardline or a safe neighbourhood they'll leave you alone, then you can go back and start your timer all over again. 



Ascendent Logic

Joined: Dec 30, 2005
Messages: 1922
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Or make them level 100

So you can interlock and have a couple of rounds with them and actually hit them...

Like any operative can... and perhaps if you are good enough get them down to half health or maybe even kill them.

it would definatly bring the fun into my game...



Jacked Out

Joined: Feb 14, 2006
Messages: 2407
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GypsyJuggler wrote:
If you can reach a hardline or a safe neighbourhood they'll leave you alone, then you can go back and start your timer all over again. 
That's pretty much why they need slightly better AI.


Vindicator

Joined: Aug 1, 2006
Messages: 3144
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Fatmop wrote:
GypsyJuggler wrote:
If you can reach a hardline or a safe neighbourhood they'll leave you alone, then you can go back and start your timer all over again. 
That's pretty much why they need slightly better AI.
Well this is true =D



Jacked Out

Joined: Feb 14, 2006
Messages: 2407
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(define agent-AI
   (lambda (target)
      (if (not (= (target-HP target) 0))
          (follow target))))

(define follow
   (lambda (target)
      (if (used-recently? target 'superjump)
          (begin
              (targeted-hyper-jump (target-coordinates target))
              (run-to target)
              (interlock target)
              (use (random-tactic))
              (unless (eq? tactic 'block))
                  (use 'machinegun-fist))
          (begin
               (run-to target)
               (interlock target)
               (use (random-tactic))
               (unless (eq? tactic 'block))
                   (use 'machinegun-fist)))))


Jacked Out

Joined: Jun 18, 2007
Messages: 3
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Renzouken wrote:
I personally would like to at least have the possibility of taking one down when you attack one as part of a co-ordinated team. As Arcanoloth says, they should still scare the shite out of you, but the way they work at this point in time using resistances to thier advantage and simply 'appearing' next to you wherever you go does seem to make an encounter with an Agent very dull.

I would love to see the Lv.255 Agents given more advanced AI, for example: When you get a warning of an Agent attack, the agent will appear as usial, if you then attempt to run you will be chased, as usial, but instead of that agent chasing you at a regular run speed whilst you activate Hyper-Speed and burn away into the distance, I would love to see the Agent matching the player's speed, Hyper-Jumping after the player, following him into buildings, attempting to interlock you, perhaps using some 'brute' form of Martial Arts similar to karate once inside Interlock.

Just some examples, I'd gladly trade the 'invincible' Agent we have now for a more 'terrifying' but beatable Agent. The way agents are now they're far too easy to avoid if out in the open, and if they catch you inside a building you may as well not even attempt to run, where's the fun in that?


This would be a different AI than what you usually see in an MMO.  It would be cool if Agents got their own AI system that worked differently than other NPCs in the game.   Allegedly, the mobs in Darkfall Online (if it ever gets released) will use AI like your talking about.  I'd like to see computer controlled characters use tactics that are more similar to what players do in combat than the standard tank +spank mechanic of nearly every PvE encounter in the history of RPGs.  I want to see them try to take advantages of a groups' weakness, go after the Patcher rather than the tank, etc, and so forth.

 

Has anyone ever tried kiting a 255 agent to death?  I bet it's possible even if it takes all night.



Veteran

Joined: Jan 12, 2007
Messages: 33
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If I may state my opinion, I think the one charm, one pulling power of the Matrix Online has always been the feeling of fear and curiosity of getting in a fight with an agent. They are the holy grail of enemies in the Matrix and should perhaps always be that way.

I don't think agents should be level 255 personally I think they need to be at a level that is scaled roughly to the level of yourself to an extent that while you *won't* get killed in two hits you certainly can (very very unlikely) manage to at least hold them off, maybe not defeat them but at least hold them off to some extent.

It needs to be that when an agent enters, the first thing that goes through your mind is "oh crap..." (as opposed to oh...*boom head shot*) start running or if you're that cocky, interlock them, but the fight has to be so stacked against you that you're probably going to get only 3-5 rounds of combat from an agent before he decides he's bored and whoops your *CENSORED*.

An excellent in-movie example is the Smith-Morpheus fight, yes I know Morpheus got his *CENSORED* handed back to him on a plate but he did get a few hits in and he didn't fall in one punch he went at least two or three rounds before with no-running options available he got toasted.

Neo-Smith's confrontation in the first movie is also a less stellar example, I don't consider Neo to be the "one" until he gets killed end-movie, so up until then he's just a newbie operative who simply has an extremely high focus/belief ability (i.e. he's just that damned skilled, yes maybe the one program was slightly kicking in there but for all extents and purposes he wasn't over-powered, if it was a normal operative I think it's believable to say that if they were in-the-zone or that *CENSORED* determined they would be able to pull off a similiar fight albiet much shorter one.) What's more, Neo at that point didn't "defeat" an agent, he barely got out of it and in both cases in the first movie he gets away with it due to outside help (Trinity, the train).

Those two examples are what I think the mainstream/casual Matrix watchers want to be able to pull off, they won't win on their own but they can sure hold on at least a little bit.

To further empathise the point, Morpheus-Agent on the truck confrontation, yes Morpheus in essence LOST that fight in my opinion but that's exactly how a fight should be going in MxO, you've got a 99% chance of losing sure, but at least you can garder some enjoyment out of thinking you were kicking their *CENSORED*, hell you could probably win if you had outside interference going on (although this clearly is difficult perhaps beyond what can be done in MxO at the moment).

I just get the feeling that the buzz of fighting an agent is a core concept and draw point of the whole series that it really needs to be cleaned up, looked at and touched over, rather than be the cheap-ish way they are right now.

I joined about three months into the game and I'm not sure if agents were level 255 back then but holy nuts, I got such a buzz running the hell away from them once, I hyperjumped to the top of a building and thought I got away only for one to literally spawn right next to me and shoot me in the back as I tried HJing away... That was a classic "oh crap, run... ouch *splat*" moment that will always remain in my mind (I was like level 15 or so at the time so I never even presumed to think I had a chance in combat and the whole HJing didn't save me really made me feel in awe of them.)

Certainly fighting red-eye'd agents back then was awesome too even though I knew they'd never be that weak I always deep down thought, if I get to 50 maybe I could survive for a minute... Maybe I could save my team-mates by staying behind, (yes i'm that kind of stupid sacrifice wise) but, one-shot "bye bye" is perhaps too much over the top.

=) Cheers,

R-Vallant


Transcendent

Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Messages: 275
Location: Vector
Online

Tadashi wrote:
Renzouken wrote:
I personally would like to at least have the possibility of taking one down when you attack one as part of a co-ordinated team. As Arcanoloth says, they should still scare the shite out of you, but the way they work at this point in time using resistances to thier advantage and simply 'appearing' next to you wherever you go does seem to make an encounter with an Agent very dull.

I would love to see the Lv.255 Agents given more advanced AI, for example: When you get a warning of an Agent attack, the agent will appear as usial, if you then attempt to run you will be chased, as usial, but instead of that agent chasing you at a regular run speed whilst you activate Hyper-Speed and burn away into the distance, I would love to see the Agent matching the player's speed, Hyper-Jumping after the player, following him into buildings, attempting to interlock you, perhaps using some 'brute' form of Martial Arts similar to karate once inside Interlock.

Just some examples, I'd gladly trade the 'invincible' Agent we have now for a more 'terrifying' but beatable Agent. The way agents are now they're far too easy to avoid if out in the open, and if they catch you inside a building you may as well not even attempt to run, where's the fun in that?


This would be a different AI than what you usually see in an MMO.  It would be cool if Agents got their own AI system that worked differently than other NPCs in the game.   Allegedly, the mobs in Darkfall Online (if it ever gets released) will use AI like your talking about.  I'd like to see computer controlled characters use tactics that are more similar to what players do in combat than the standard tank +spank mechanic of nearly every PvE encounter in the history of RPGs.  I want to see them try to take advantages of a groups' weakness, go after the Patcher rather than the tank, etc, and so forth.

 

Has anyone ever tried kiting a 255 agent to death?  I bet it's possible even if it takes all night.

It's not possible to kill the 255 Agent, not anymore. Even if you manage to hit him, he'll just regenerate faster than a "LE" char. (( Near 50 hp/s with Combat State ))

 It'd be cool to see NEW models of Agents. There're currently only 3 ( All hair, half Hair and Pace ). So to follow the Movies pattern that was three, it'd be cool to see a new one, even if it's a female one. Like in the new cinematic. ( With a tie ).Although I doubt that it'll happen.


Jacked Out

Joined: Aug 29, 2005
Messages: 2122
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I thought of another thing that needed change. We are supposed to fight upgraded agents and so all their names should end with ...son in the end like in the movies so for example agent Thompson, Robertson etc.


Jacked Out

Joined: Dec 27, 2006
Messages: 6256
Location: The Real World This is how MxO ends: Not with a bang but a whimper
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With Neo dead and no longer a systemic need for a 'One' the system has no need to continue to maintain upgraded Agents when pre-upgraded versions will do just fine. The only problem I had whilst reading through some of the previous posts was, ok, mission agents can be a low enough level to fight against for a minute or so as you have one spawn per mission member still in the area (Although the game system does want you out of the room ASAP) but if you have lower level restricted area Agents they only spawn on each operative independantly even if they are in a mission group. Even a lvl 70-100(?) agent could get beaten by 6 decent operatives.

Agents are supposed to bring up an emotional response, one that tell you that if you do not run, you will die. If there was a way to confuse the Agent in IL long enough for you to withdraw and escape, then IL with one would be more viable.

On the other hand, I would like to see operatives last a couple of rounds longer, one on one, with an Agent.

 
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