[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07

**Merchant**

Perhaps. But Zion can't shun their responsibility in the situation either. If they can't protect him, they shouldn't have put him on a list and planned to attempt extraction. As far as I'm concerned, both sides are to blame. One opened the door, the other closed it.

**MetaLogic**

Merchant wrote:

Perhaps. But Zion can't shun their responsibility in the situation either. If they can't protect him, they shouldn't have put him on a list and planned to attempt extraction. As far as I'm concerned, both sides are to blame. One opened the door, the other closed it.

Agreed.

**PS10N** · 08/11/2007 01:40:07

(((I apologize for the System Chat SPAM, it was unintentional. A typo in a macro caused the emote to fire one after another instead of several minutes apart. When I lost connect I figured it was because I was booted. I suppose the screenshot posting "PS10N was booted" is a warning to others. Sorry again to be the bad example, it was completely unintentional and due to a typo. I'm sorry about that but not about the Agent Pace Country comment, that was funny. Don't hate me Rarebit, it was an accident, honest.)))

**NightTrace**

Relox wrote:

We made them we can do whatever we want to them

GG

You, didn't make a *CENSORED* thing. You have no authority over the blue pills. You are not a Machine. You are a Machinist. There is a clear difference, learn it.

**MetaLogic**

NightTrace wrote:

Relox wrote:
We made them we can do whatever we want to them

GG

You, didn't make a *CENSORED* thing. You have no authority over the blue pills. You are not a Machine. You are a Machinist. There is a clear difference, learn it.

NT has a point.

**r3spon5e**

Machines not only started this war, they created it. If Pace wants to end this war, all the Machiees have to do is stop trying to destroy Zion. There is no threat to the Machines from Zion, never has been.

NightTrace wrote:

Zion told the Mechs no to accessing their Mainframes, the Machines will do it anyway, "tee hee".

When the Machines wanted access to the Zion mainframe, Niobe made an equitable offer of an equal exchnage of information and the Machines walked away from it. You should know better than to suggest otherwise NightTrace. I expect such ignorant comments to be made by the war lusting Collective, now the DoE joins the ranks of elite denial through lies too. All in the name of justifiying your own lust for war.

The Machines repeatedly violated the Truce from the day of it's inception. The Machines declared the truce broken for Zion removing itself from the threat of destruction by the Machines. The Machines continue to pursue a defensive Zion that poses no threat to them. Machinists only drive in serving the Machines is their lust for war.

Illyria22 wrote:

We're at war. And in all wars, innocent people die. There's no way around it, unfortunately.

Illyria

You worked so hard to prove how killing an agent was taking an innocent bluepill's life. Oh how you were mortified by the atrocity of it all. Now you murder a bluepill in cold blood and it's all just taken in stride as some unavoidalbe misfortune of a war you so eagerly embrace. You are truly lost and the one to be pitied, Illyria. There is no war. There is only Zion searching for peace and protecting the truth and its people from the Machine threat. There is only the Machines telling you to kill your own kind and you proving to the Machines how pitifully you will lust for such an opportunity.

Nothing has changed. Bluepills are merely an expendable resource to the Machines. War is the Machines' preference as a measure of control and control is all the Machines are concerned about. It's been a long time of Machinists wasting their breath trying to prove otherwise.

To serve the Machines is to be a traitor to humanity and peace for all. That's all there is for you.

Be a Machinist and know your place.

**NightTrace**

r3spon5e wrote:

NightTrace wrote:
Zion told the Mechs no to accessing their Mainframes, the Machines will do it anyway, "tee hee".

When the Machines wanted access to the Zion mainframe, Niobe made an equitable offer of an equal exchnage of information and the Machines walked away from it. You should know better than to suggest otherwise NightTrace.

You're misunderstanding my words. Thats what our goal is now. The big goal of half of these operations are still to gain access to the f**king Zion Archives. Why? So they can say that Zion cannot stand against them?

Maybe to shut down the defenses of "New Zion"? But then again, it would take more then what we've done to pull that off.

Which brings me back to my point.

That half of these ops that we've seen, make zero tactical sense if I were to pretend that this was a war.

This isn't a war, this is a pissing contest on a larger scale.

Give me a war, some people to kill that are not innocents, and you'll see me with a grin on.

Being asked to be a part of this pissin contest? No thanks.

**Illyria22**

r3spon5e wrote:

To serve the Machines is to be a traitor to humanity and peace for all. That's all there is for you.
Be a Machinist and know your place.

Your opinion means nothing to me. Because it's people like you, with your fanaticism and prejudice and hatred, that started the original war against the Machines centuries ago. So go ahead and call me names -- your negativity towards me only shows me I'm doing something right.

Illyria

**Tytanya_MxO**

Ah the noble machine operative dedicated, efficient, tirelessly working to ensure the obliteration of human thought.....run along kil..... sorry overwrite another potential redpill - that is obviously so much more reasonable than letting them wake up and choose whether to fight you or not.

And lets not forget Zion's wonderful contribution, your list has signed the death warrant for who knows how many.

who would have thought the forces of ignorance and ineptitude would one day wield so much power lol!

**Croesis** · 08/11/2007 10:27:42

r3spon5e wrote:

Machines not only started this war, they created it. If Pace wants to end this war, all the Machiees have to do is stop trying to destroy Zion. There is no threat to the Machines from Zion, never has been.

Learn your history.
Humankind started the War against the Machines, the Machines were just far better at it and Humankind lost. The truce was a temporary ceasefire for both sides to attempt to use diplomacy. It was in fact Zion who abandoned the truce by going against the agreement and building a new fortified city, one that was planned since the inception of the truce. Yes the Machines may have made small violations of it, but so did Zion, you are not innocent. How many agents have Zion operatives killed? Remember that each agent was using a Bluepill as a means to access the Matrix. So Humankind created the war and Zion re-started it back up. Zion also has a history of trying to wake people up from the Matrix with the aims to free the Human race from its unspeakable bonds (which allow them to live their lives as their ancestors did)
If they succeeded then the threat to the Machines are insurmountable as they cannot survive indefinitely without a power source as abundant as the Sun or Human beings. Add to that the possiblility of bringing down the Simulation or launching small tactical attacks on Machine powerlines or growth fields then running back to the fortifications of the city. Best offence is a good defence?
If Zion were searching for peace, why didn't they give it a chance with the Truce?

At this time the question of the power supply is still under debate. Until a definite answer is found, my standing on this will continue.

**Darminian**

There is only one way to take this - all of those who claim they fight for humanity while siding with the machines in any accord at all not only have blood on their hands, but are taking a stance against humanity.

Sacrificing bluepills to kill redpills. I'll never claim the innocence or reds, but the blues innocence here is undeniable and in that regard, the murder of bluepills to strike zion is unjustifiable.

~Darminian

**CPT_Starschwar** · 08/11/2007 15:28:21

Illyria22 wrote:

r3spon5e wrote:
To serve the Machines is to be a traitor to humanity and peace for all. That's all there is for you.
Be a Machinist and know your place.

Your opinion means nothing to me. Because it's people like you, with your fanaticism and prejudice and hatred, that started the original war against the Machines centuries ago. So go ahead and call me names -- your negativity towards me only shows me I'm doing something right.

Illyria

Indeed. The blue was sacrificed so as to prevent more deaths - to end the war more swiftly. It's an act I disagree with, but understand the reasoning behind. Once the war is over, more blues will be safe - to achieve that goal more swiftly, two bluepills were sacrificed. I can understand their reasoning - one has to remember that their concepts of right and wrong are far different than our own - something I hope to one day teach them. So long as the Machines exist, Humanity will exist. And through peacefull cooperation with the Machines, peace will be restored, and all of both our species shall be safe.

**Crossover** · 08/11/2007 16:47:24

Arrested, brought to the back of a dungeon and executed. I'd hate to see what would've happened to him had he not gone peacefully.

Conveniently the "greater good" of the system is unchanged since there's a fabricated replacement to take his place. So no falsified story of an "accidental death" is needed, no condolences to friends and family is necessary. Most likely he'll end up being recycled or dare I say it flushed, who knows. So ends the life of the real man, someone who considered himself nobody-special. It might go unnoticed by those in the system but mark my words, humans are taking note of your cold tactics 01, and we won't be forgetting the real Navin Manohar.

There is a real sinister reason an Agent didn't take care of this themselves, and thats because they're testing their operatives. They want to see how far their operatives are willing to go, what lines they are willing to cross and by doing this they have set the bar for future actions. I'm glad there's a few that are voicing their dissapproval. But there surely isn't enough. I hope no one ever has to suffer such a cruel fate ever again.

**Villemar_MxO**

Crossover wrote:

There is a real sinister reason an Agent didn't take care of this themselves, and thats because they're testing their operatives. They want to see how far their operatives are willing to go, what lines they are willing to cross and by doing this they have set the bar for future actions.

You're on to something here. The machines are performing one giant Milgram Experiment.

**Merchant** · 08/12/2007 03:38:32

It's a possibility. Or perhaps it's more a test for Zion to see just how far they're willing to go to recruit people. If they keep making lists of potentials and contacting them in efforts of extractions, and they keep failing to protect them because in their eagerness, or perhaps desperation, their resources are being spread too thin to preserve the lives of the bluepills they're trying to awaken, then maybe the machine programs are more curious to see just how many times it takes to reinforce the concept that there will always be consequences for awakening and disturbing the status quo. Especially when it's warned against. Perhaps something along the lines of how many shocks would it take to reinforce that such a behavior is not a wise decision. Just another theory. Seems to me though that I'm one of the few people analyzing this from an objective view and not completely ignoring Zion's contribution to the situation. Just another thought too. And in regards to an earlier comment, there's a really simple solution to the situation. Stop awakening bluepills. But I doubt Zion would accept that, after all I'm sure they're concerned with their own version of the 'greater good', and so the dance will continue.