Grace of Darkness wrote:

I think the MKT is fine as it is. Since I've come back it seems to be working as I expected it to work in cr1. Spy are out of interlock combat, once in combat they should get owned like hackers(but they dont, which is the problem since spy acc is as high as sniper with acc buff running constantly but without the IS drain). Unless your all tricked out for interlock combat you should last that long. much less win in interlock. Leg sweep has always done more damage than knives in interlock, possibly because it's a melee attack(not melee dps and not a melee attack). It's alot better now than it was in cr1 when it was doing 1300 damage easy.

 

I've used alot of old moves from the times I was MKT before and the out come would be I would always lose in interlock or I would win with just a sliver of health. I just stay out of interlock now unless it's for sneak attack purposes.

I do think staggering through should have it's 100% stagger ability back though not that weakened 50% chance. This one is usually most effective against hackers as I really don't like to stagger throw them then they can turn around and use a nuke on me.(considering staggering throw takes 4 seconds to pull off including the sneak ability and the high dmg those 2 things can't be compared)

The MS time should be switched as Zudrag said. What point is there to be in shadow mode for 180 secs unless your running through the Creston dungeon. It should be 30 secs with 180 reuse time so ppl quit abusing it, if you don't wanna fight the quit flagging.

Some of the sneak attack moves need to be revamped, mostly for damage. The damage goes by level, so I use spin throw on someone I expect it to do atleast 800 not 300 damage. Reverse Bulldog's IS use needs to be lowered, 60 IS just to stun someone isn't worth it.(wrist throws requires more IS and only has a CHANCE to stun...) The 70 IS on canny stike I agree with since it's a roll out move and the DPS seems to work like it should. Bulldog's attack damage needs to be raised, I think smashing someones face in the ground should be right up there with kicking them in the nuts.

 IMO MKT is beat most of the time in interlock now, as Marias stated if your losing to an MKT interlock your doing something wrong. That is unless that person geared up for interlock, then I guess your screwed.

(but they dont, which is the problem since spy acc is as high as sniper with acc buff running constantly but without the IS drain)

That is because that person is geared up for interlock (acc and IS clothing)

(considering staggering throw takes 4 seconds to pull off including the sneak ability and the high dmg those 2 things can't be compared)

I'm was not comparing the damage, I was stating the properties of the move. If it's only a chance to stagger then why call it staggering throw any more. It was alot more useful when it actually staggered your opponent everytime.

(wrist throws requires more IS and only has a CHANCE to stun...)

What does that have to do with the spy tree?

The Leo wrote:

Grace of Darkness wrote:

I think the MKT is fine as it is. Since I've come back it seems to be working as I expected it to work in cr1. Spy are out of interlock combat, once in combat they should get owned like hackers(but they dont, which is the problem since spy acc is as high as sniper with acc buff running constantly but without the IS drain). Unless your all tricked out for interlock combat you should last that long. much less win in interlock. Leg sweep has always done more damage than knives in interlock, possibly because it's a melee attack(not melee dps and not a melee attack). It's alot better now than it was in cr1 when it was doing 1300 damage easy.

 

I've used alot of old moves from the times I was MKT before and the out come would be I would always lose in interlock or I would win with just a sliver of health. I just stay out of interlock now unless it's for sneak attack purposes.

I do think staggering through should have it's 100% stagger ability back though not that weakened 50% chance. This one is usually most effective against hackers as I really don't like to stagger throw them then they can turn around and use a nuke on me.(considering staggering throw takes 4 seconds to pull off including the sneak ability and the high dmg those 2 things can't be compared)

The MS time should be switched as Zudrag said. What point is there to be in shadow mode for 180 secs unless your running through the Creston dungeon. It should be 30 secs with 180 reuse time so ppl quit abusing it, if you don't wanna fight the quit flagging.

Some of the sneak attack moves need to be revamped, mostly for damage. The damage goes by level, so I use spin throw on someone I expect it to do atleast 800 not 300 damage. Reverse Bulldog's IS use needs to be lowered, 60 IS just to stun someone isn't worth it.(wrist throws requires more IS and only has a CHANCE to stun...) The 70 IS on canny stike I agree with since it's a roll out move and the DPS seems to work like it should. Bulldog's attack damage needs to be raised, I think smashing someones face in the ground should be right up there with kicking them in the nuts.

 IMO MKT is beat most of the time in interlock now, as Marias stated if your losing to an MKT interlock your doing something wrong. That is unless that person geared up for interlock, then I guess your screwed.

(but they dont, which is the problem since spy acc is as high as sniper with acc buff running constantly but without the IS drain)

That is because that person is geared up for interlock (acc and IS clothing)

(considering staggering throw takes 4 seconds to pull off including the sneak ability and the high dmg those 2 things can't be compared)

I'm was not comparing the damage, I was stating the properties of the move. If it's only a chance to stagger then why call it staggering throw any more. It was alot more useful when it actually staggered your opponent everytime.

(wrist throws requires more IS and only has a CHANCE to stun...)

What does that have to do with the spy tree?

Well you want an ability that deals massive dmg as sneak attack and stuns. That would be kinda unbalanced to other abilities at similar level.

From a show of hands, how many of the people calling for nerfing the Spy tree use it on a day to day basis?

(but they dont, which is the problem since spy acc is as high as sniper with acc buff running constantly but without the IS drain)

That is because that person is geared up for interlock (acc and IS clothing)

(considering staggering throw takes 4 seconds to pull off including the sneak ability and the high dmg those 2 things can't be compared)

I'm was not comparing the damage, I was stating the properties of the move. If it's only a chance to stagger then why call it staggering throw any more. It was alot more useful when it actually staggered your opponent everytime.

(wrist throws requires more IS and only has a CHANCE to stun...)

What does that have to do with the spy tree?

Marias wrote:

From a show of hands, how many of the people calling for nerfing the Spy tree use it on a day to day basis?

I am, currently levelling an alt using Knife Thrower. The tree is pure win with a side dish of awesome. Can solo the 10 Taskmaster without pills or boosters and without having to sit down.

What I've been noticing recently is you can basically pop Find Weakness, Staggering Throw someone from sneak for about 1,200 damage and say they get staggered. Then you throw a throat cutting throw and they're powerless'd. Then you chuck a few knives or maybe a Neuro to slow'em down and then pop their shield in the process. Run away, disguise, Diving Frankensteiner or go into sneak if your shield is down to surprise them and ta-da, 1,800-2,100 damage easy and they're dead or at a sliver.

Honestly, I think stealth moves should stay the same and the escape abilities as well, even maybe a buff to their interlock accuracy, but make interlock accuracy of knives to that of most Hacker abilities. Also I think someone mentioned that knives should be as they should in interlock because of the Twins, but as we know comparing the movie and the game is beyond pointless.

I don't understand why a "stealth" tree with the most break interlock moves in the game has to dominate interlock so regularly. It should be more of, "stealth move, then break and run"

I never said to raise reverse bulldogs damage, I just suggested lowering the IS. Yes I realize that wrist throw is in the same boat.

Also Disarming shot doesn't disarm anymore because ppl complained in cr1 that they couldn't use they're guns are were usless for one round. Same reason why using grab tactics with MA on gunmen doesn't disarm them anymore. Disarming shot is not to disarm every tree, it's original pupose was to disarm another gunman, hence why it now lowers ballistic accuracy. This is also why I complained about the staggering throw name, I say call it something else since it only has a chance to stagger.

From what I've seen since I've comeback no MKT has survived interlock without help or getting lucky. If there fighting another mkt that's fair game. When I see them against any other tree they get owned constantly in interlock, unless they pulled off a sneak attack to get into interlock.

I personally think we can get rid of the ability spam easily by either removing macros entirely or limiting their use to outside combat.  Those would kill many of the ability spams / chains in the game and force people to think again in combat, and also give the other person a chance to fight back without having to worry about knife spam and hacker spam both in and out of IL.

Not sure about you two, but I don't Macro my attacks in IL with hacker or spy.

Trayden wrote:

I personally think we can get rid of the ability spam easily by either removing macros entirely or limiting their use to outside combat.  Those would kill many of the ability spams / chains in the game and force people to think again in combat, and also give the other person a chance to fight back without having to worry about knife spam and hacker spam both in and out of IL.

How would that be balanced? Your saying it's okay for MA and GM to spam link abilities but not hacker and MKT.

MKT FTW!!!

THE ULTIMATE FARM/PVP/MISSION LOAD!!!

On a note not related to spies, I think also that Upgrade attacks should be unusable in interlock, to prevent hackers from dominating interlock (despite it only being for a short amount of time, it's still a huge pain for any interlock-oriented class to go through those first few rounds and be reduced to either a sliver or be killed by a Hacker that uses upgrade attacks.)