Jim78UK wrote:

Rarebit old chap, this post is directed personally to you. I hope you read it. A reply to it would make me ecstatic, but I guess you get a lot of messages. Okay, it’s been a good few days since the changes were implemented and I’ve put in a good few gaming hours with the new system. Here are my observations…

 

1/ I was happy about the new FX timers, as I collect them from the archives and was chuffed to learn my devices would be drastically extended. I did however foresee this change making the perps people had fought tooth and nail for, virtually worthless. Having tried them out though, I think Rarebit, that you may have pitched it just about right. Five minutes isn’t too long to class as spam and a 30 second recharge time is placed just well enough to prevent spamming from any but the most determined. I think I’m going to be happy to eat my own words on this particular subject.

 

2/ (a)The new critical mission system is something I… not exactly loathe… but dislike intensely. Playing a game like this is all about suspension of disbelief, perhaps more so than usual, considering this is the Matrix we’re talking about. Why would all three org reps hang out within twenty feet of each other? Why would it be necessary to do the same mission about six or seven times in order to gain some items? I understand people sitting on their arses in Richland was a problem, but many mission have had specific locations (usually Westview I think, although there would’ve been nothing to stop it being in Downtown) and I think it would’ve been relatively easy to force people to move around the city as desired without taking the crit delivery away from the three regular controllers. I also understand that people simply not being bothered to do crit missions was a difficulty, so you had to have some sort of incentive system to make them do it. The reaction earlier in this thread to the mention of IS regen boosters (most people said they couldn’t be bothered to use them) was an obvious clue that the current situation wasn’t working, but I find the new solution very annoying, as getting said reward requires repeated completion of the same mission in the plot (not to mention that rewards are not level specific, they’re fixed and thus out of my reach for the near future – I presume this is meant to be an incentive to reach level 50?). At least with the arcs you could jump around as desired. Which leads me to…

For the bold bit: Interaction with others... org specific items, do trades etc. Makes it easier for everyone to know where they are aswell. Oh and on Vector, it just makes it so dam temptin

I hate grinding but i'v managed to get my boots and gonna get some other stuff aswell. I like the way how its fairly soloable (apart from the lvl 100.) Oh yeah, merv item is 12 of the 2nd rarest bit, zions is the most common!!!

Only problem i can see, not now but future terms, theres gonna be alot of collectors dotted around (we have enough already lol) Gonna get confusing.

Cinematics, when i heard it wasn't going to be ingame stuff, i didn't even check it out tbh.

Archive rewards, dammit, gonna need to grind mishs on my main now. When i relised the timers was bad i didn't see the point grinding for other rewards. Only have the bluehead lamp on my main lol

Fatmop wrote:

Synapse777 wrote:

Hm, I was wondering if these org quests could and will involve new interior looking areas? I mean it would be nice to see new rooms and such, recolored floors, walls, new posters, just a general change to the missionareas from the generic areas would be real nice, even visiting Le Vrai? Dare one hope? And also maybe keep some of the missions in the same building? Instead of all the running from one location to another, why not go up one floor and clean out then take the elevator to the next floor? Would give the missions a whole new feel of attacking an org controlled installation. Hope these ideas aren't too outlandish

Well, they're not, except the "new rooms" one oddly enough.  Adding new rooms would require a repackaging of the entire district because there are a set number of building designs.  If you change a design, you have to make everyone re-download the entire map.

That sucks, thanks for shooting down teh pipedream Fatmop!

The_Bruceter wrote:

bit: Interaction with others... org specific items, do trades etc. Makes it easier for everyone to know where they are aswell. Oh and on Vector, it just makes it so dam temptin

Zion and the Mechs are at overt war and the Merv is constantly sniping from the sidelines. How realistic is it there's be en "embassy" space within the Matrix in those conditions? Especially within a restricted zone populated with the strongest gangs outside of the constructs! As for the last point, wouldn't matter where they were, if you could contact them by phone, as we used to.

Vector:  I will never make a serious character on that server, because a) It's even more sparsely populated than Recursion, and b) ganking is bad enough when it's restricted.

Realistic

Its an mmo, interaction. RP can get a bit of a push to the side can it not? Doesn't have to explain every weird and wonderful thing. I personally prefer the collectors together.

p.s. Vector is more populated than Reccy (well over the past 2 weeks we've bn on medium and reccy hasn't.) and ganking isn't restricted if you've done the node

I'v already pvpd a few times downtown due to this new update  

Jim, I know your post was directed at the dev. However, I see where a few assumptions have been made that have led to your feeling the way you do about certain features of the game and the new content. I thought I c would chime in with my take on things and see if it doesn't make you feel a teensy bit better about our current situation.

Jim78UK wrote:

2/ (a)The new critical mission system is something I… not exactly loathe… but dislike intensely. Playing a game like this is all about suspension of disbelief, perhaps more so than usual, considering this is the Matrix we’re talking about. Why would all three org reps hang out within twenty feet of each other? Why would it be necessary to do the same mission about six or seven times in order to gain some items? I understand people sitting on their arses in Richland was a problem, but many mission have had specific locations (usually Westview I think, although there would’ve been nothing to stop it being in Downtown) and I think it would’ve been relatively easy to force people to move around the city as desired without taking the crit delivery away from the three regular controllers. I also understand that people simply not being bothered to do crit missions was a difficulty, so you had to have some sort of incentive system to make them do it. The reaction earlier in this thread to the mention of IS regen boosters (most people said they couldn’t be bothered to use them) was an obvious clue that the current situation wasn’t working, but I find the new solution very annoying, as getting said reward requires repeated completion of the same mission in the plot (not to mention that rewards are not level specific, they’re fixed and thus out of my reach for the near future – I presume this is meant to be an incentive to reach level 50?). At least with the arcs you could jump around as desired. Which leads me to…

 The critical mission system coupled with nightly live events got to the point where it was just too much for one man to do. Design, writing, planning and implementation for three org missions per week, for five weeks in row, has got to be a *censored* of a timesink. It had to be changed, not as a tradeoff for other perceived features, but as something that simply could no longer be maintained.

Also, it has long (like, since Beta) been a bone of contention with the dedicated player base that virtually none of the missions provided any real end-content (i.e. stuff that gave level 50's something to do) and none of them ever occured in Downtown (which is the richest neighborhood in terms of visual stimulation).

Jim78UK wrote:

(b)Why on earth is the archiving system being discarded? Without it, it will be impossible to do off-org crit missions unless you’re one of those people with enough time on their hands to have generated three level 50 characters. Also, the idea of having crit missions existing for all time as current ones is a ruiner of the aforementioned “suspension of disbelief” because we now have a timeline that defies any knowledge of quantum physics. That means we can’t have any plot specific environmental effects, such as when the General kidnapped Sati and the Matrix weather went all to buggery.

The Archived mission system is part of the weekly crit mission system; again something just too time-consuming to be maintained. Also, another old gripe of the players was the fact that it was too easy for orgs to "spy" on the other orgs (e.g. run other orgs missions using alts). This new system will reduce the availability of the story events to just the handful of folks who have level 50 alts in all three orgs.

It's funny that you should use the Sati Kidnapping arc as your example for this. I recall that many players were upset about this due to the fact that it put Sati in such a prominent place of Matrix control. After all, she's a child, and an Exile at that... But I get your argument: the storyline no longer actually affects the environment of the game world. Of course, when running Archived missions of the Sati kidnapping arc, the sky isn't actually red anymore, either.

Jim78UK wrote:

3/ The much vaunted cinematics return...  I am the first to admit that I have zero talent as an artist and almost zero when it comes to art appreciation, so people may consider my views on this less relevant than those of others. However, here are my views for what they're worth...

These are what we gave up the other stuff for?!?!?! I find them hard to look at, and I often find myself not even having a clue which characters are which, or even who the heck they are, because it looks like a detailess black and white splodge on my screen. Given that there's no voiceovers to help distinguish between people either, it makes it doubly hard. An absoloute pile of the festering "proverbial" in other words. I could quite happily live without these if we got some of the old features back. I know you can do better than this Rarebit.

The return of the 'cinematics' was not the goal of the decision to change the story delivery. As I've stated, that delivery system just took too much time and effort to keep it up. When the cinematics went away, players were FURIOUS. I mean people were actually unsubbing because of it. They were SCREAMING to bring them back, in any form. This new version of that style of story delivery is simply an added feature that Rarebit has the time to do, now that he doesn't have the rigors of writing 15 missions every six weeks while maintaining a schedule of nightly live events that generally lasted between two - five hours, per night. Not to mention all the other dev requirements, such as fixing bugs, creating new content, delivery patches on time, keeping up with the community, etc, etc. Rarebit litterally put in 20 hour workdays for 3 years. He deserves a break. I, for one, would rather see him relax, than quit.

Also, it was his first attempt. A little latitude may be in order?

Finally, before it's said, let me just head it off at the pass. The Matrix Online will not be getting any additional devs, unless Rarebit or 9mmfu leaves, which, even then, I doubt SOE would hire a replacement. This game just doesn't have enough subs to maintain it at its former level.

Synapse777 wrote:

Fatmop wrote:

Synapse777 wrote:

Hm, I was wondering if these org quests could and will involve new interior looking areas? I mean it would be nice to see new rooms and such, recolored floors, walls, new posters, just a general change to the missionareas from the generic areas would be real nice, even visiting Le Vrai? Dare one hope? And also maybe keep some of the missions in the same building? Instead of all the running from one location to another, why not go up one floor and clean out then take the elevator to the next floor? Would give the missions a whole new feel of attacking an org controlled installation. Hope these ideas aren't too outlandish

Well, they're not, except the "new rooms" one oddly enough.  Adding new rooms would require a repackaging of the entire district because there are a set number of building designs.  If you change a design, you have to make everyone re-download the entire map.

That sucks, thanks for shooting down teh pipedream Fatmop!

My apologies.  I was just letting you know - this type of thing has been brought up before, and I think once by me, with the same answer more or less.  Without more devs, I wouldn't expect to see this change.  But maybe it will?

Fatmop wrote:

Synapse777 wrote:

Fatmop wrote:

Synapse777 wrote:

Hm, I was wondering if these org quests could and will involve new interior looking areas? I mean it would be nice to see new rooms and such, recolored floors, walls, new posters, just a general change to the missionareas from the generic areas would be real nice, even visiting Le Vrai? Dare one hope? And also maybe keep some of the missions in the same building? Instead of all the running from one location to another, why not go up one floor and clean out then take the elevator to the next floor? Would give the missions a whole new feel of attacking an org controlled installation. Hope these ideas aren't too outlandish

Well, they're not, except the "new rooms" one oddly enough.  Adding new rooms would require a repackaging of the entire district because there are a set number of building designs.  If you change a design, you have to make everyone re-download the entire map.

That sucks, thanks for shooting down teh pipedream Fatmop!

My apologies.  I was just letting you know - this type of thing has been brought up before, and I think once by me, with the same answer more or less.  Without more devs, I wouldn't expect to see this change.  But maybe it will?

Lol, but the idea with missions in same buildings or at least NEARBY buildings could be feasible. Example from the zion 11.3.1 mish wich made me think the same:

Operator: Hol####--

### still there, Hyperviolent? Man, I just caught an override pulse like you wouldn't believe. There is a major codestorm going on, and it's pretty **** close to you.

I go outside, waypoint 600~ meters away.

Tyndall: We picked it up too, operative. It's very close to you.

I lol'd.

I agree that wouldn't be bad.  And I said that the only one I know for sure is implausible is the district rebundling.  I don't know much about the mission system itself or what parameters it uses to define where your mission will be - but judging by the fact that a mission never has two objectives in the same building, it must be creating a list of 'nearby' or 'same-level' buildings, then cutting/pasting from that list - would make sense.  I'm sure it's a bit more complex than that, but I'd say it's probably within the realm of possibility to add a couple lines of code here and there to change the function from a cut/paste to a read/paste so that same-building missions are possible.

On second thought, it'd be more than a few lines of code - you might need a new variable indicating which floor/room space you just came out of to prevent you from leaving then turning around into the same area.  THAT would cause hella problems.

The_Bruceter wrote:

Realistic

Its an mmo, interaction. RP can get a bit of a push to the side can it not? Doesn't have to explain every weird and wonderful thing. I personally prefer the collectors together.

 

p.s. Vector is more populated than Reccy (well over the past 2 weeks we've bn on medium and reccy hasn't.) and ganking isn't restricted if you've done the node

I'v already pvpd a few times downtown due to this new update  

1/ I guess that's personal choice.

2/ Personally, I've never once seen Vector on anything but low. I've seen Recursion on medium a hell of a lot less than I've seen it on Syntax (Syntax is medium 80% of the time I see it, Recursion has been on medium maybe four or five times in the time I've been playing, which is about five months), but I've still seen it that way occasionally.

Jim78UK wrote:

we now have a timeline that defies any knowledge of quantum physics.

You think that's quantum physics you're experiencing?

Shi,

Thanks for replying. The POV of someone who's been around since Beta (I assume you have?) is very welcome. For the sake of ease in replying to your comments I've inserted a few numbers here and there to make bullet-points of them.

ShiXinFeng wrote:

1/ Jim, I know your post was directed at the dev. However, I see where a few assumptions have been made that have led to your feeling the way you do about certain features of the game and the new content. I thought I would chime in with my take on things and see if it doesn't make you feel a teensy bit better about our current situation.

 

2/ The critical mission system coupled with nightly live events got to the point where it was just too much for one man to do. Design, writing, planning and implementation for three org missions per week, for five weeks in row, has got to be a *censored* of a timesink. It had to be changed, not as a tradeoff for other perceived features, but as something that simply could no longer be maintained.

Also, it has long (like, since Beta) been a bone of contention with the dedicated player base that virtually none of the missions provided any real end-content (i.e. stuff that gave level 50's something to do) and none of them ever occured in Downtown (which is the richest neighborhood in terms of visual stimulation).

 

3/ The Archived mission system is part of the weekly crit mission system; again something just too time-consuming to be maintained. Also, another old gripe of the players was the fact that it was too easy for orgs to "spy" on the other orgs (e.g. run other orgs missions using alts). This new system will reduce the availability of the story events to just the handful of folks who have level 50 alts in all three orgs.

4/ It's funny that you should use the Sati Kidnapping arc as your example for this. I recall that many players were upset about this due to the fact that it put Sati in such a prominent place of Matrix control. After all, she's a child, and an Exile at that... But I get your argument: the storyline no longer actually affects the environment of the game world. Of course, when running Archived missions of the Sati kidnapping arc, the sky isn't actually red anymore, either.

5/ The return of the 'cinematics' was not the goal of the decision to change the story delivery. As I've stated, that delivery system just took too much time and effort to keep it up. When the cinematics went away, players were FURIOUS. I mean people were actually unsubbing because of it. They were SCREAMING to bring them back, in any form. This new version of that style of story delivery is simply an added feature that Rarebit has the time to do, now that he doesn't have the rigors of writing 15 missions every six weeks while maintaining a schedule of nightly live events that generally lasted between two - five hours, per night. Not to mention all the other dev requirements, such as fixing bugs, creating new content, delivery patches on time, keeping up with the community, etc, etc. Rarebit litterally put in 20 hour workdays for 3 years. He deserves a break. I, for one, would rather see him relax, than quit.

Also, it was his first attempt. A little latitude may be in order?

6/ Finally, before it's said, let me just head it off at the pass. The Matrix Online will not be getting any additional devs, unless Rarebit or 9mmfu leaves, which, even then, I doubt SOE would hire a replacement. This game just doesn't have enough subs to maintain it at its former level.

1/ As I said above, I'm very glad you chose to do so.

2/ Nightly live events seemed excessive to me from the POV of a noob. Because of the exigencies of my r/l I only ever got to attend one and even then it was just a slug-fest with dozens of NPC exiles somewhere in Downtown. I got a bunch of enhanced clothes to decompile from it, but that was about it. I don't remember there being anything perp-able to fight. Although I would see them being made as rare as hen's teeth a bad thing, having less frequent (as opposed to one every few weeks) that had meaning and something worth doing I would view as a good thing.

3/ I was surprised to hear it was unpopular. My opinion was based soley on my own feelings and those of people I've spoken to in-game.

4/ The Sati example was chosen, not because I thought the red sky was a good thing or that Sati's status and importance was plausible from a storyline point of view, but just as an example. I couldn't think of anything else that made the universe we were playing in seem so vibrant, responsive to our actions and input, and alive.

5/ The cinematics are something I see as a tool for communicating storyline events. Not a crucial tool, but a more important one nowadays, definitely. If they're going to be used, then I think I should at least be able to tell who is who. I accept that Rarebit puts in a shedload of hours and I don't for one second think anything that's wrong is due to lack of effort or time. I hope I've made it clear in my posts that although there are some things I'm not happy about, I'm not a total flame-baiter who's here only to scream and gibber like a club-footed inbred at a televangelist show.

6/ Don't get me wrong on this one, I'm under no illusions as to how SOE views MxO. I think, frankly, that if they weren't legally and contractually obliged to continue running it, they'd have canned it at the first opportunity. I don't think they give a tup'penny bugger about the game to be honest and should Rarebit decide to take the gap, I think probably the only content we'll have will be the standard missions and the archives.

Rarebit wrote:

Jim78UK wrote:

we now have a timeline that defies any knowledge of quantum physics.

You think that's quantum physics you're experiencing?

 

It's certainly not air I'm breathing. I suspect it's laughing gas.

Rarebit wrote:

Jim78UK wrote:

we now have a timeline that defies any knowledge of quantum physics.

You think that's quantum physics you're experiencing?

Lol! Well thats a question, does Quantum Physics play any role in a virtual environment? Lets also consider that MxO is a game, a fairly old one at that with little in the way of flexibility and there are certain elements that you just have to allow because of it.

Jim78UK wrote:

Vector:  I will never make a serious character on that server, because a) It's even more sparsely populated than Recursion, and b) ganking is bad enough when it's restricted.

Just wanted to point out that Vector is a fantastic server.  I started my main there, and whats good about being red as a lowbie is it makes you more aware of your surroundings, there's a hightened sense of danger which adds a nice element to the enviornment.  I took a break in 2007 when Vector's population took a dive and I stopped seeing anyone on my buddy list.  Quite a few of us migrated to Recursion that year.  It was fun, but late that year/early this year the Vector population came back up so I came back to Vector for good, along with all of my fellow Vector-emigre mates.  I hardly ever see anyone on Reccy anymore, and I only would hop on to do crits, and those are gone now so theres not much of a reason to stay.  I really think the Rec population is quite low.  If I had to choose a nonhostile server I'd choose Syntax since its the most populated server by far.

BTW I'll have my full review of these changes after I finish the new quest...just got the 11.3.3 ticket so I'll wait until that's done before I make a rush to judgement.