CR2.0 must not increase the effectiveness of the Zerg!

**Tytanya_MxO**

Qualitative statement based I admit on limited QA experience.

We all know the most significant determining factor in pvp as it stands now is the relative odds on each side. More often than not one side significantly outnumbers the other (hereafter known as the Zerg force). While this is broadly logical and understandable, the movies suggest the odds can be beat and as a Merov from Vector I can vouch for the fact the current system does give you a change to make an impact against the Zerg. Sadly from my experience of CR2.0 so far, although the system denies multiple IL, the impact of non IL'ed bystanders of your level or below is far more significant. In effect the ability and effectiveness of the Zerg is being increased by the current implementation of CR2.0. Disturbingly this seems by design to allow lower levels to be involved in pvp, I can applaud that aim but increasing the impact of the Zerg will seriously undermine enjoyment of PvP and worse could all but kill it.....sounds extreme I know but listen to the complaints following any major battle and the frustration is severe enough without the new system intensifying the effect.

I'm not sure I am experienced enough here to offer the best of solutions, but as with the current system I believe while you are 'stuck in IL' fighting someone 1 on 1 so to speak the impact of the outside world needs to be scaled down to allow that IL to be played out and enjoyed......(for the record I think the descision to remove multiple IL was wrong and the alternative to isolate IL from the rest of the envirnoment by boosting DR and VD of the IL'ed combatants would have provided a far better solution)

**Garu**

I agree.

Thanks to the new system, not only do you have to worry about Knife Throwers, Gunmen and Hackers while you're interlock, but now you have to worry about Martial Artists as well. Before I could interlock someone and maybe a friend or two would jump in to help them out, now they just stand around Melee free-firing me while I'm trying to fight one person.

So in essence, the zerg mentality has been given even more confidence. At least before all of this, the most a Martial Artist did was Swirling Ki Summon or try to shoot me. Now they can just bludgeon me to death.

If multi-interlock was the cause of the problems, why not just restrict interlock to just one on one? The rest of the system was perfectly fine to me.

But instead we're treated to an entirely new type of combat to fix ONE bug?

I know this is still testing, but at the moment, its a horrible mess, IMO.

**Megarittz**

I think melee free fire was a great idea. MA deserve to be able to fight when people are already fighting, but not have to expose themselves to the horror that is multi interlock.

Phade

I have to agree, somewhat,

There are far too many ways to get hit now, far too easily at the moment I might add. But then again, things aren't balanced out. Damage I think is a bit high on MFF perhaps because of it. Defence plays a huge part in it now. Get your defence as high as it can go for what your weaknesses will be, and then start building your resistances with the dodge abilities and clothing. Right now as it stands there are too many unfinished tasks before we finally get to see what this is shapeing up to be. Right now I think your worries are well grounded, but who knows what the future will hold.

Tantalus010

I'm not entirely sure what your complaint is here. If you're complaining that people shooting/hacking/striking at you from outside of interlock are doing more damage than they should, well, damage hasn't been balanced yet, so just give it some time. If you're complaining that you're getting hit from outside interlock too much while you're in, well, I have to disagree with you there. In my opinion, shooting at a target that is interlocked should grant you a bonus to accuracy, as you are free to concentrate on shooting, and your target is too busy concentrating on the interlock fight to effectively dodge your attacks as well as he/she could when not interlocked (I say provide the shooters with the bonus instead of applying a downgrade to the interlock combatants because we currently have no distinction in attributes between ranged defense against someone who is shooting at you in interlock and someone who is shooting at you using free-fire, and providing a blanket downgrade would obviously have unfair consequences). Ultimately, though, it seems you are asking them to 'fix' a fundamental law of reality - in a war where both sides have access to the same technology (in our case, abilities, weapons, and apparel), the side who has more people is going to win. It's not a game mechanic, it's a fact of life.

In the live game, there's practically no skill whatsoever involved in PvP, it's all about which abilities you have loaded, what you're wearing, which weapons you're using, then finally, down to pure luck and finally skill, but only in the form of knowing when to use which attack. If you ask me, rather than asking them to nerf people shooting at someone who's interlocked, you should ask them to rework the system so that player skill matters at least to some non-negligible degree (and if you ask me, they have taken a step in that direction with CR 2.0 already - which attack tactic you choose compared to your opponent's is much more involved than in live). If they do that, however, they'd have to lower the random effect in combat, which would sort of negate the whole 'lowbies have a chance to hit a level 50' deal, so it's really about what you're willing to compromise.

**Tytanya_MxO**

I will try and make myself a little more clear as I feel this issue is so very important, I apologise for the mass of text!!

The term Interlock is very misleading as the people involved are far from static - in the real world it might refer to a situation where skilled martial artists are engauged in battle, continuously on the move and weaving around one another (the other guy mught actually be your ally complicating matters still further). The IL players therefore are not as easy a target, as either a stationary person or indeed a person running or even jumping (where the path is usually predictable).

However arguing that point is mute - the aim of the matrix is certainly not to emulate real life, if it were a single bullet striking you at almost any point would lead to a large number of incredibly short and boring fights. Rather what we are emulating is the source material, the movie world, where as we see a single opponent can take on unbelieveble odds (even in the situation where a single opponent is a serious threat ie 1 Smith offered as much of a challenge to Neo as 101 etc). This is the environment that brought most of us here, and what we looked forward to enjoying.

I believe no server has a perfectly balanced population and every battle unless carefully organised is unbalanced, there needs to be a degree of flexibility in the pvp and pvNpc system that allows for the odds to be defied, it should be challenging but posible, that aspect arises from strategy, build types and use of the environment and still will of course but the level of damage than is now inflicted from outside of IL is far more severe than previously, meaning the effect of having the odds on your side is amplified. Unbalanced battles therefore will become quiker more descisive and less involving, IL which everyone is looking to return will actually be avoided like the plague. incidences of impromptu battles will decrease, frustrations with the game will increase, diversity and fun will decrease......a situation to noones benefit....I know this will happen because even with the current system its all too common, I cant support any change which intesifies that effect.

I know it seems like I am getting at Zion when I say this but honestly the continuous onslaught of a juggernaught sized foe is very wearing to the smaller orgs on vector. Merovs perhaps command the numbers advantage 2 out of 7 days on vector and machines perhaps only manage 1 at present. Allowing lower levels to have a greater impact will further amplify the imbalance (as they all start as some flavour of Zion), its no coincidence now that the greatest exedous from the game is from those orgs Zion may well win the war as every other org collapses, but the ultimate prize won there is the biggest loss any of us could fear.

**Bayamos**

I completely agree with your points, Tytanya. Machines, like Mervs, are vastly outnumbered by Zion, and the CR seems that it will only increase the zerg's effectiveness. If the whole point of CR 2.0 was to refine the combat system, to make it more fun and fair, then giving the zerg such power kinda counteracts that. On one hand, it's numerically fair for the larger numbers to win. But on the other, there are rules that can be "bent" according to the Matrix, and that should be one of them. If anything, I see the amount of PvP decreasing because Mervs and Machines may not have the numbers to take out Zion. Not a good thing, and I hope this can be addressed somehow.

**phi**

I have to ask what kind of hero you think you are taking on a team on your own. Like in the movies, travel in groups for safety. Acting solo is risky for this very reason, so if you can get away with running around solo you will have more of a 1337 status.

The balance is fine. In RL if you got attacked would you expect everyone to wait so you could fight them one at a time?

>revolt_ · 02/02/2006 18:18:30

But I would expect if I get shot in real-life while being involved with someone in a close fist fight, that my melee opponent would be in danger of getting shot too.

Atleast I'd expect that the shooter will have a harder time hitting me, without hitting his friend. SMILEY

My Suggestion: Free-attacking, Shooting or launching a virus or throwing a knife into an INTERLOCK fight should be penalized with a hefty penalty. This way interlock will mean something again and it'll finally become an effective tactic to aggro and tank your opponent.

>revolt_

Message Edited by >revolt_ on 02-02-200606:18 PM

Obitus_

>revolt_ wrote:
But I would expect if I get shot in real-life while being involved with someone in a close fist fight, that my melee opponent would be in danger of getting shot too.

Atleast I'd expect that the shooter will have a harder time hitting me, without hitting his friend.

My Suggestion: Free-attacking, Shooting or launching a virus or throwing a knife into an INTERLOCK fight should be penalized with a hefty penalty. This way interlock will mean something again and it'll finally become an effective tactic to aggro and tank your opponent.

Bang on.

**PBlade**

>revolt_ wrote:
But I would expect if I get shot in real-life while being involved with someone in a close fist fight, that my melee opponent would be in danger of getting shot too.

Atleast I'd expect that the shooter will have a harder time hitting me, without hitting his friend.

My Suggestion: Free-attacking, Shooting or launching a virus or throwing a knife into an INTERLOCK fight should be penalized with a hefty penalty. This way interlock will mean something again and it'll finally become an effective tactic to aggro and tank your opponent.

>revolt_
Message Edited by >revolt_ on 02-02-200606:18 PM

You win!

**Rexxhavukk**

Make players in interlock UNTARGETABLE... ... PLEASE !!! or just get rid of interlock.

It is totally unfair to be attacked with no way to fight back, i.e. NPC's or Zergsters firing away at a player that is engaged fighting another and can't fire back. A player should be impervious to outside attacks...

I am not saying do away with ranged battles wtih multiple enemies but being killed from an enemy not interlocked with while in interlock is unacceptable and always has been.

Gunner

**PBlade**

Defeats the object somewhat doesn't it?

Then how is the "group of level 40s can take on a level 50" idea work?

>revolt_

Let the 1st ring (free-fire melee attackers) and 2nd ring (viral and thrown attackers) outside of interlock attack the interlock inner ring, but penalise them, because the inner interlock ring can't attack the outside rings.

>revolt_

cantido

Possible solution for "the Zerg". Since the zerg factor is greatly increased in IL by free fire attacks, and by the lack of Damage resistance atm. So to counter act the zerg, and to increase desire to IL is to tactle these two issues.

My solution is: Increased Free Fire Defense tactics, increased Free Fire Damage Resistance while in IL when a member of the same Organization is in IL. I'm not talking anything major. Just an addtion 20 pts or 10% Free Fire Defense tactics, and an addition 100 pts or 10% Free Fire Damage Resistance.

Example: 2v1 combat.(PVP) You and your friend have picked a target, and your friend IL. You don't want to hit your friend in IL, so it becomes harder for you to make a decisive shot, without hitting your friend.

Second Example: 1v1v1 combat.(PVP) A Merovingian, a Zionist, and a Machinist walk into a bar...(bad pun)...and since a one Organization doesn't care about the other two Orgs, there will be no reason to be careful when free firing.

Way to Impliment this AS A DEV: I took a little bit of Java and flunked, but I do know about If() statements. Imo, all you need to do is:

***When ORG represents what organization your IL with.

IF( IL ORG)

ORG damage recieved=(damage recieve - 10%),

ORG accuracy =(accuracy - 10%);

Would this be hard to impliment? Or is it a bad Idea?