monkeymanx8 wrote:

Wanting is a wonderful thing, but the reality is that Rarebit's leaving, the story has already been dropped right infront of us, and sh1t is hitting the fan. If we ever want to do anything more with the MxO story, we either need to be given the resources to continue from 12.1 (extremely unlikely), or work with what we have. I don't like the idea of abandoning the story where it is now much more than you do, but I don't think there's much more we can do with it on our own at this point. You're most definitely not the only one thinking the way you are, but we just aren't capable of bringing a proper ending to the Oligarchy story.

 

...

Well first off, don't repeat what I've been saying back to me as an argument.

Secondly, "work with what we have" does not equal "ditch what we have and make something new."

psilody wrote:

Did you miss the part where the Bro's approved of this overall storyline? Get over it. Just because it doesn't interest YOU, doesn't mean it isn't interesting.

Guess what? That was a lie. The Brothers haven't had anything to do with this game since they gave Chadwick an ok on a brief overview. And then Chadwick hasn't had anything to do with the story since he "left." Most of this recent stuff has just been Rarebit, who has a mediocre grasp of the Trilogy at best, making things up, with the occasional input from us in LESIG.

The Bros approve of this storyline as much as Philip K. D1ck(YES SOMEONE HAS THE LAST NAME D1CK STUPID WORD CENSOR) approves of the Next storyline.

MatrixRefugee wrote:

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

monkeymanx8 wrote:

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

Likewise, we can't pretend that everyone blacked out for a year and all the Oligarch mess has been resolved and we're back into a shaky Cold War truce, because it's also extremely unbelievable, and there's too many plot holes that cannot be resolved by a thin recap.

Says who? Rare's notes on the end of the Oligarchy story seem pretty conclusive to me. With that whole issue out of the way, everybody could get back to the fighting they were doing beforehand.

You cannot just dump the storyline we're in now and skip ahead. You just can't. Few people are gonna go for it. Jacking in one day to see a MOTD "Welcome to Chapter 15. It's been several months since blah blah blah and this has happened and now we're doing this" will definitely p*ss people off. Or is it just me? Am I the only one who wouldn't want to see this thing brought to an end in its entirety?

It just seems stupid to me. But hey, if I'm the only one thinking this, I'll back off, completely.

It would seem a bit short-changed and little rushed, but that's just me saying it. I like the outline that we have for Chapters 12.2-14, and while it might be a bit spoilery, I'd still like to see it fleshed out. I'd be a litte "huh? What happened? where are we going now?" if we glossed over the next six months or so of storyline. Blacking out for that long is a bit unrealistic (even for science fiction), since that would have to cover the whereabouts of the entire playerbase for that amount of time...

Player Cinematics and Sentinal articles for 12.2 - 14. 

Oh and I'm sure you can manage to RP that.  You've probably already made up an RP story revolving around Patch Error -15.  

Foxxdie wrote:

psilody wrote:

Did you miss the part where the Bro's approved of this overall storyline? Get over it. Just because it doesn't interest YOU, doesn't mean it isn't interesting.

Guess what? That was a lie. The Brothers haven't had anything to do with this game since they gave Chadwick an ok on a brief overview. And then Chadwick hasn't had anything to do with the story since he "left." Most of this recent stuff has just been Rarebit, who has a mediocre grasp of the Trilogy at best, making things up, with the occasional input from us in LESIG.

So Rarebit decieved us all along.  And your evidence of this would be....? 

I'm sorry, who are you again?

Villemar_MxO wrote:

Foxxdie wrote:

psilody wrote:

Did you miss the part where the Bro's approved of this overall storyline? Get over it. Just because it doesn't interest YOU, doesn't mean it isn't interesting.

Guess what? That was a lie. The Brothers haven't had anything to do with this game since they gave Chadwick an ok on a brief overview. And then Chadwick hasn't had anything to do with the story since he "left." Most of this recent stuff has just been Rarebit, who has a mediocre grasp of the Trilogy at best, making things up, with the occasional input from us in LESIG.

So Rarebit decieved us all along.  And your evidence of this would be....? 

I'm sorry, who are you again? 

He_Who_Knows_And_Spreads_The_Truth_All_Over_The_Ignorant_World

Neoteny wrote:

12.2 and beyond never happened, and in my eyes, are disgusting. Gold hallways? Blah. Trinity-Player super fusion-ha super saiyan power go? No. Two Matrices? No way in hell. Peace? I don't buy it.

That stuff is only in Chapter 14. Are you going to dismiss everything else Rarebit planned based on just that?

And for those who hate the Oligarch storyline, is it only because they appear without RSIs, or do you have a more grounded dislike based on the scenario as a whole (their interactions with the Machines since the War, their domains across the globe, etc.)?

I like the idea of the Gold Hallways and the whiteout sky, very apt. The idea of Trinity merging with a player (or all players undertaking that mission) sounds a bit iffy tbh. The dual Matrices idea is interesting but basically would seperate the story from the player which is the same problem with the 'war' and current oligarch story.

Peace? I don't think would happen just like that. Restoration of the truce.. perhaps, better relations.. possibly. Peace? Nah.

Thing is, these were just sketchy plans, an outline it was never gonna be definitive.

Procurator wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

12.2 and beyond never happened, and in my eyes, are disgusting. Gold hallways? Blah. Trinity-Player super fusion-ha super saiyan power go? No. Two Matrices? No way in hell. Peace? I don't buy it.

That stuff is only in Chapter 14. Are you going to dismiss everything else Rarebit planned based on just that?

And for those who hate the Oligarch storyline, is it only because they appear without RSIs, or do you have a more grounded dislike based on the scenario as a whole (their interactions with the Machines since the War, their domains across the globe, etc.)?

I think they had that much power over the machines, sureley they would have just took to over throw them eventually? I just don't like the idea of yet another party involved in the war. It just all seems  a bit silly and something like fan fic to me. It just all got a bit ..ya know out there...in the movies, they always made you think this could actually be true..with this storyline its  a bit like sureley people would notice?(The way it has admitedly been for most of MxO's storyline.) Also about the control they had over the machines, they sureley would have wanted to know what was going out and they sort of just ignored what happend in the matrix films time line? Without knowing about it?

I no longer feel, we can forget the silly storylines but we do have to move away and let go of them.

Villemar_MxO wrote:

MatrixRefugee wrote:

It would seem a bit short-changed and little rushed, but that's just me saying it. I like the outline that we have for Chapters 12.2-14, and while it might be a bit spoilery, I'd still like to see it fleshed out. I'd be a litte "huh? What happened? where are we going now?" if we glossed over the next six months or so of storyline. Blacking out for that long is a bit unrealistic (even for science fiction), since that would have to cover the whereabouts of the entire playerbase for that amount of time...

Player Cinematics and Sentinal articles for 12.2 - 14. 

Oh and I'm sure you can manage to RP that.  You've probably already made up an RP story revolving around Patch Error -15.  

Player Cinematics and Sentinal articles for those chapters would be nice, but it really wouldn't hold a candle to actually playing out those events, but again, that's just how I see it.

And yeah, I did have an idea in the back of my head as to what was causing the Patch Error, but I wasn't sure if people would consider it feasible or if they'd accept it. I've had my ideas laughed at, which is one reason I tend to shy away from sharing big ideas about the universe.

We can't just pick up the storyline where Rare left off, for two reasons:

1) we have no story-telling DEV that has the tools to implement the story in a real and tangible way

2) the in-game artifacts left by the end of chapter 14 (gold hallways? NPC's?) will not exist

Any attempt on our part to continue through the end of the story as Rarebit envisioned it would be only be RP. There are a few creative people out there who have grandiose ideas about how to finish Rarebit stories off. It will be entertaining, to be sure. But in the end, there won't be anything that exists in the Matrix Online that will further the story.

Anyhow, I'm breaking my own rules.

I think if we want to stand still in time, we can. In my opinion, though, it would suck in the extreme. It would be incredibly boring because it's not the Matrix that we want. Machines not fighting the war they restarted just because of the Oligarchs that no one will ever see again. Zion trying to find the Trinity/BIP that no longer exists. The Merovingian trying to make friends with one while hunting the other. It's a perpetual deadlock that we can't break because we don't have the tools.

On the other hand, since RP is pretty much the only real tool we have at our disposal, we could make up our own d*** minds (as it was so eloquently put) to consider the story to be at an end. That is, we take the broad strokes of what Rarebit gave us for the final chapters and we agree that it has happened. Because let's face it, we can't really do anything else.

Cloudwolf thinks that we may never reach an agreement amongst ourselves. He's content to step back and wait for a Dev to make the choice for us. To me, this is not in the spirit of the Matrix, nor is it the concept that the Matrix Online was built around. "The future of the Matrix is in your hands." Remember that?

I say we wash our hands of this storyline. Get back to our roots. See what we can do with it. 

RetroX wrote:

I think they had that much power over the machines, sureley they would have just took to over throw them eventually? I just don't like the idea of yet another party involved in the war. It just all seems  a bit silly and something like fan fic to me. It just all got a bit ..ya know out there...in the movies, they always made you think this could actually be true..with this storyline its  a bit like sureley people would notice?(The way it has admitedly been for most of MxO's storyline.) Also about the control they had over the machines, they sureley would have wanted to know what was going out and they sort of just ignored what happend in the matrix films time line? Without knowing about it?

Why would they want to overthrow the Machines? As far as I could make out their lives were pretty peachy up until recent developments, too concerned about themselves than what the Machines were doing. They probably didn't care one bit about what was going on in the matrix as long as the Machines didn't violate their location(s) and kept to the arrangements (taking people out of the pods etc..)

The only thing about the storyline which would give pause for a bluepill to notice would be the appearance of the Oligarchs but then there will always be compromises between aspects of a game and aspects of a film. Bluepills apparently don't see the hacks players throw out (again hacks are a compromise between the franchise and the MMO model - Rarebit even said one time that if it were up to him MxO would have been Guns, MA and command line hacking at a terminal.) and anything out of the ordinary (like seeing Halborn/Carlyne) they're conditioned to try to rationalise it what they've seen or dismiss it.

I don't think it matters what parts of what story you like or dislike, what is done is done and the most assured fact is that those particular storylines have no possible way to develop or resolve themselves... even with another dev on board the need for mystery will deny the exposed plotlines Rare released - sad but true.

So what we have to deal with what is left, and that is a beautifully reslised matrix environment, a vast but singual location in which future, smaller-scale, player led stories can develop and one which should finction to actively encourage players to develop, a city brought to life by its citizens etc.

It is the situation/scenario we are left with that has to work to offer this encouragement, to involve and immerse players in the world so they care enough to want to continue..... we either have to abadon everything that has been introduced since the end of Revolutions OR better yet find or lobby for the means to resolve or destroy those links that make Matrix online contradictory or incompatible with what we see each and every time we log in..... for me the war is the biggest problem, people log in to mission, or chat, or party, or plan and that is only a logical eventuality if the Matrix exists at some level of peace....the truce has to be reasserted or the demands of the Matrix online interface are an overt contradiction to every player led event that is ever coordinated within the matrix =/

monkeymanx8 wrote:

Phrack wrote:

- Everything that happened before and leading up to 12.1, has actually happened (whether we like it or not).

- Everything that happens beginning at and following 12.2 hasn't happened, and therefore has not been written in stone.  What Rarebit posted was essentially an "Alternate Ending" to what could happen now... which could very well be much more epic, for all we know.

- Discussion settled.

Rarebit said his "alternate ending" was approved by the Wachowski Bros. Regardless of whether it was truly executed, it's really a matter of opinion on whether you consider 12.2 and on to be canon. A lot of people would consider the W Bros' say-so to be absolute regarding The Matrix's story.

For the record, I'm not telling you people to go back to chapter eight.  I only said that is what I've done with my character.  This ridiculous Oligarch storyline is nothing more than a non-canon fanfiction written by a guy that has not cared one bit about the Matrix story, as far as I'm concerned.

You all can believe what you want, but don't tell me that I have to accept or acknowledge this storyline.  My character never gave two squats about the Oligarchs and has always remained focused on the war.  You guys want to buy into the Oligarch stuff, more power to you.  I choose not to.  And now that Rarebit's gone, I'm also going back to accepting that reinsertion is possible, as shown and proven in the Matrix comics.

Matrix Comics = Canon.  They are published and edited by the Wachowski Brothers.  They personally selected each comic.

Rarebit =/= Canon.

But could you accept it as "some non-sensical crap you've heard rumors about but haven't experienced first hand, and in any case, shouldn't deter us from focusing on fighting the war"?

You know, just for the sake of consensus?