I want a challenge

**Cadsuane**

Tenshi wrote:

This would leave this kind of mission open to other species of bosses as well, maybe the mission ticket could have a certain percentage chance to take you to different constructs with different bosses that drop other decently-powered items. If not then maybe come out with a small series of mission tickets that would take you to these different smaller constructs.

I'm thinking it could be built up like Pandora's Box over a few patches. Beating this boss would give you an item you could trade in to get the ticket for the next boss in the series. You could even make the Seraphic Wing part of the price of the original ticket.

**GoDGiVeR**

I don't agree either with the item (which is a hat), nor with it's buffs (damage %, even in raw masses, don't do as much as we'd like them to do, at least, not as much as I'd like them to do, I do lots of calculations). IMO it has either to be something you can put into the tool slot OR a shirt, since we haven't really got a "good shirt" (as in, e.g. quicksilvers and all those new shades) around.

But anyways, I like the challenge. As Picard likes to say:

**Syna**

Great idea.
The only downside is that it's not already in game. =P MXO is missing and definitely needs something like this.
I don't like the buffs actually. The IS regen is good but I'd throw some resistances in too. Perhaps there can be two missions, one with lupines and one with Blooddrinkers? One drops a launcher that boosts viral and thrown damage, the other melee and ballistic damage. Because you know this will be beaten before the next patch comes. =P

Criingey

This is definately one of the strongest ideas put forward that i have seen.

You have put a lot of thought into this... good job.

To quote the Special One..."DO IT... BE CHAMPIONS!"

**Aquatium.**

I'm going to start off with the negatives,

While the intention of the idea is ok, the idea itself, is not.

Mission Ticket:
Immediately you limit the challange to a maximum 6 person group. Due to many limitations in the game mechanic, they can only make a 6 team mission so hard, a real challange is something that needs more than 6 people imo.

Enrage the boss:
Eh? Just because it's enraged, doesn't mean it will keep attacking, it will still attempt to roll out if it tries to attack the healer (for example), enraged just means it can't. The idea would be to keep it attacking the target it's interlocked with? You just made the fight easier!

Spawn adds:
boss that won't roll out + spawn adds, I'll bring my AoE hacker, thanks. That will also help with having the hackers take turns with various powerless moves on a special spamming lupine.

Item suggestion:
Eh, who you been talking to? that item wouldn't be worth the time at all.

The idea is good, but it's not great and that's not your fault, its the limits the game has for such content.

What can be a challange based on the current system?
Honestly, hard to really think of something thats challanging beyond getting yourself a good few numbers of players to help. I have loads of ideas that would be great, but I always try to think of what the game limits, and I always hit a brick wall on that. One idea that might be possible, is making a 4 boss attack, all that can ONLY be damaged by 1 type of attack each, so you are forced to take all attacks, and when I say 4 bosses, all spawn at the same time, so you would need to consider the team make up. But I also can think of many flaws in that.

If we have to consider something with your idea, it would really make things interesting if the NPC's had a AoE hacker boss.

A new item?
I'd like to see an item that gives a high % sweep clear (like the pandora clothes currently do) and have it so it gives a special ability to use with it equipped (kinda like halloween attacks you got).

**Cadsuane**

Aquatium. wrote:

1) Immediately you limit the challange to a maximum 6 person group.

3) Boss that won't roll out + spawn adds, I'll bring my AoE hacker, thanks. That will also help with having the hackers take turns with various powerless moves on a special spamming lupine.

4) Eh, who you been talking to? that item wouldn't be worth the time at all.

1) The ticket is just to call the area. It's entirely possible to bring more than six people into that area.

3) Thinking of a possible solution doesn't constitute a point against the suggestion.

4) An item in the tool slot that provides IS and damage is going to give you a significant edge against someone who doesn't have said item. But even then, it's just an idea and it may well be people can suggest better.

**Aquatium.**

Cadsuane wrote:

1) The ticket is just to call the area. It's entirely possible to bring more than six people into that area.

3) Thinking of a possible solution doesn't constitute a point against the suggestion.

4) An item in the tool slot that provides IS and damage is going to give you a significant edge against someone who doesn't have said item. But even then, it's just an idea and it may well be people can suggest better.

1) Then it's already starting to sound messy. Would be better in a construct like Sati's then.

3) It does if it means it won't be "a challange"

4) I already made a suggestion on what I think might be good.

Like I said, the idea is ok, but has flaws (which the OP is asking people to post about). Unless we can challange some fundamental settings on how NPC/game mechanics currently work, the challanges we face will all be the same person in a different mask.

**Cadsuane**

Fair enough points. Don't forget though there's a difference between 'challenging' and 'impossible'.
It's true that in some ways an archive construct would be better but it's pretty important (to this idea) that people be able to attempt it without having to worry about outside interference.

**TonyJaa**

This sounds like a good idea but the item reward is a really bad choice.Why would i go all this trouble(and let's face it,this quest looks hard enough) just to have a reward that i can get easier?Overdrive Bandana gives me the exact same buffs(without the IS regen) and it's easier to get!!
Anyway,well done.

**Shinryu**

I'm not going to concentrate on the specifics because, quite frankly, I have limited experience with the most "challenging" tasks MxO already has to offer.

I do, however, think it's important to note that a task of this nature needs to always remain difficult. However it would be designed, it would need to be done in such a way that you couldn't simply learn the right trick/loadout(s)/team make up/etc. and be able to roll it easily. That is one of the failings of the current "challenges." From what I gather, many of them seemed hard at first but once you learn the trick they may take time but are ultimately not that tough.

Tenshi

TonyJaa wrote:

This sounds like a good idea but the item reward is a really bad choice.Why would i go all this trouble(and let's face it,this quest looks hard enough) just to have a reward that i can get easier?Overdrive Bandana gives me the exact same buffs(without the IS regen) and it's easier to get!!
Anyway,well done.

Exactly, the IS regen is quite the significant advantage the Overdrive bandana doesn't have. Not to mention that it would be in the tool slot making it so you could wear the Overdrive Bandana as well....oh the damage stacking possibilities.

SaintDaniel

I like where it's going though..

atomicus

I like this idea... would like to see a "spy" version of the same with a new disguise as a drop.

**eval** · 09/26/2008 10:12:14

Aquatium. wrote:

I'm going to start off with the negatives,

While the intention of the idea is ok, the idea itself, is not.

Mission Ticket:
Immediately you limit the challange to a maximum 6 person group. Due to many limitations in the game mechanic, they can only make a 6 team mission so hard, a real challange is something that needs more than 6 people imo.

Enrage the boss:
Eh? Just because it's enraged, doesn't mean it will keep attacking, it will still attempt to roll out if it tries to attack the healer (for example), enraged just means it can't. The idea would be to keep it attacking the target it's interlocked with? You just made the fight easier!

Spawn adds:
boss that won't roll out + spawn adds, I'll bring my AoE hacker, thanks. That will also help with having the hackers take turns with various powerless moves on a special spamming lupine.

Item suggestion:
Eh, who you been talking to? that item wouldn't be worth the time at all.

The idea is good, but it's not great and that's not your fault, its the limits the game has for such content.

What can be a challange based on the current system?
Honestly, hard to really think of something thats challanging beyond getting yourself a good few numbers of players to help. I have loads of ideas that would be great, but I always try to think of what the game limits, and I always hit a brick wall on that. One idea that might be possible, is making a 4 boss attack, all that can ONLY be damaged by 1 type of attack each, so you are forced to take all attacks, and when I say 4 bosses, all spawn at the same time, so you would need to consider the team make up. But I also can think of many flaws in that.

If we have to consider something with your idea, it would really make things interesting if the NPC's had a AoE hacker boss.

A new item?
I'd like to see an item that gives a high % sweep clear (like the pandora clothes currently do) and have it so it gives a special ability to use with it equipped (kinda like halloween attacks you got).

If you have people enter the mission area, then they leave the team, they can still attack the boss. I've noticed this is possible when org areas first came out, and our entire faction was brought in.

I have fiddeled around with enraged NPCs for a very long time. Whenever the Smith Virus comes out, I would kite around NPCs, fight them, etc. Because an NPC is enraged, it doesn't get the roll out option. So, it will just constantly attack. A level 100 would I think deal around...500 damage or so speed attacks to a person in interlock? It would make the fight harder, not easier.

Yes, bring your AOE hacker, that would be very effective crowd control. This is meant to try and diversify teams and have people take different roles rather than just have a healer and a big zerg of people. But, an enraged NPC will try to interlock the nearest enemy in range, so even if an NPC didn't spawn coming after you, if you're within 6 meters of it, i'ts going to try and interlock you. So when you have 6+ people, chances are you're going to get caught in interlock at some point and won't be able to hack most of the NPCs. You'll get knocked around, people will get seperated.

As for the item, if you make it really, really overpowered it's going to unbalance things, especially if it takes up a slot that usually doesn't have buffed items in it. I was thinking about an item that when equipped also granted you Lupine attacks to do, that'd be kinda neat. As for an item with sweeps eh, it's a good idea but I'd like things that aren't done yet, so you can get a variety of benefits.

When I was discussing with people about the spawn, I had a couple of people suggest breaking it up into other boss battles. Hey, that's great and all, but I for one don't have another thouroughly thought out boss battle. Ideas on one would be appreciated. I like the idea of an AOE boss too, but it's AOE would have to be pretty huge to be of any effect because it's going to constantly be in interlock. Chances are if it were the AOEs of what players currently have that only go out to 6 meters or so from their target, the players are smart enough to simply move out of range. It'd need to be something like 30 meters to really be effective.

**eval**

Shinryu wrote:

I'm not going to concentrate on the specifics because, quite frankly, I have limited experience with the most "challenging" tasks MxO already has to offer.

I do, however, think it's important to note that a task of this nature needs to always remain difficult. However it would be designed, it would need to be done in such a way that you couldn't simply learn the right trick/loadout(s)/team make up/etc. and be able to roll it easily. That is one of the failings of the current "challenges." From what I gather, many of them seemed hard at first but once you learn the trick they may take time but are ultimately not that tough.

I've uh, got the right mindset to think up how to exploit NPCs. I know what they can do and why they do it, simply put.

As for tricks, the only ones I can really think of is a big group of AOE hackers/healers which is still prone to problems. I might want their viral defense bumped up more than normal, to take into account that they don't have a hyper loaded, I'd probably give only the level 50s a passive ability that the Sati's playground spawns have and bump up their viral defense to, say,50-75 pts. That way it'd be about the same defense as a level 50 with Hyper-Deflect running.

Or, a few MKTs getting spawns, moving backwards rapidly all in one direction. Then, the MKTs throw on a disguise, go around the NPC spawns, attempt sneak attacks on the boss then attempt to roll out. The way I'd try to balance that out is put a permenant +60% speed buff on the NPCs, and give them a constantly running detection ability with a wider range than the normal detection ability, and probably not annoyingly visible. That way an MKT can still use their disguise to use things like sneak attacks (because it's still technically on them when they get hit with detection) but will still be attacked and chased by NPCs.