[8.1.2] This war is their doing - Recursion - 7/25/07

**NightTrace**

GypsyJuggler wrote:

Neoteny wrote:
Hmm. Anyhow, if I were a Machinist, I would be most concerned about this little statement:
I'm thinking the same thing. This little statement reminded me of how the Merv took control of the General's forces. Seems like the Machines have something hidden with which to eliminate any possible rogue Machinists.

Also; did NightTrace get fed up and leave after no new information/instructions were forthcoming?

When nothing I was saying was getting responded to, I acted on a hunch and emoted at the Agents. I had been put on ignore. Whats the point at attending a Q&A event, if you can't get an A for your Q?

**MetaLogic**

NightTrace wrote:

GypsyJuggler wrote:
Neoteny wrote:
Hmm. Anyhow, if I were a Machinist, I would be most concerned about this little statement:
I'm thinking the same thing. This little statement reminded me of how the Merv took control of the General's forces. Seems like the Machines have something hidden with which to eliminate any possible rogue Machinists.

Also; did NightTrace get fed up and leave after no new information/instructions were forthcoming?

When nothing I was saying was getting responded to, I acted on a hunch and emoted at the Agents. I had been put on ignore. Whats the point at attending a Q&A event, if you can't get an A for your Q?

Yea, but as we seen here, you weren't put on ignored, we can read your typings on the LE post, and yes there was a Q&A session, but apparently it was part one of a two part event. I'm sorry I didn't stick around for the second part, I didn't realize there was going to be a second part.

I still wish I'd ask Gray if reinsertion was a lie, eh I'll have another chance.

**NightTrace**

MetaLogic wrote:

NightTrace wrote:
GypsyJuggler wrote:
Neoteny wrote:
Hmm. Anyhow, if I were a Machinist, I would be most concerned about this little statement:
I'm thinking the same thing. This little statement reminded me of how the Merv took control of the General's forces. Seems like the Machines have something hidden with which to eliminate any possible rogue Machinists.

Also; did NightTrace get fed up and leave after no new information/instructions were forthcoming?

When nothing I was saying was getting responded to, I acted on a hunch and emoted at the Agents. I had been put on ignore. Whats the point at attending a Q&A event, if you can't get an A for your Q?

Yea, but as we seen here, you weren't put on ignored, we can read your typings on the LE post, and yes there was a Q&A session, but apparently it was part one of a two part event. I'm sorry I didn't stick around for the second part, I didn't realize there was going to be a second part.

I still wish I'd ask Gray if reinsertion was a lie, eh I'll have another chance.

http://thematrixonline.station.sony.com/images/en/forum_posts/070725_pace_recursion/006.jpg

From that point on, I was on ignore.

**ZaneZavin**

odj wrote:

ZaneZavin wrote:
The One may be dead, the anomaly eliminated. However she does not say that the one known as Neo is dead. I am surprised to see this break in their complete silence over the issue.

Neo = The One.
The One = Dead.
Logic follows.
Neo = Dead.

Neo was the One. There is a longstanding theory that Neo could still be alive but no longer the anomaly after his confrontation in the heart of the machine city.

**MetaLogic**

NightTrace wrote:

http://thematrixonline.station.sony.com/images/en/forum_posts/070725_pace_recursion/006.jpg

From that point on, I was on ignore.

Eh fair enough.

**Pyraci**

Fatmop wrote:

Pyraci wrote:
Just needed to be patient, that's all. I'm saying something about it now.

What she didn't tell you that the Colonel himself said is that the "anomaly" is systemic. Because it doesn't exist as Neo at this time doesn't mean it won't emerge again. It is a flaw in the system. If the system was flawless, people wouldn't reject it on their own.

Another thing that I see most Machinists haven't realized is that many of us already considered "The One" to be dead anyway. But that's even more reason for us to take action and do things for ourselves. This doesn't demoralize us, it strengthens us. The saviors in many religions and systems of belief are dead, yet people still live, think, and do for themselves without being plugged into and dependent on the Machine. We have done so and will continue to do so.

Rebuttal: No, you won't. Sentinels have this interesting habit of ending life.

Yes we will. We have our interesting habit of surviving and creating life, and they aren't omnipotent. Just because you need the Machine, doesn't mean we all do.

**Procurator**

What's all this about us needing 'the Machine', as you so creatively put it? If Zion doesn't need them, neither do we - we're not less resourceful than you.

We left to work with (or for, depending on your point of view and the facts at your disposal) the Machnes due to:
a) ideological differences with Zion;
b) the desire to not live in a cave.

Explain how we need the Machines on a personal level.

**Crowlos**

Machines are such fools, we are no longer under their control or in their crosshairs and this is how they react. Thank you Agent Gray for openly admitting the it was the machines who terminated the truce.Aggressive base? Are you kidding me? We will defend ourselves like we have before and you Machinists just love believing everything you are told, how about demanding to see proof, not once has your superiors shown you any evidence the this new base is capable of attacking.This is about control and now that they no longer have it are so quickly trying to regain it and using you to do it.

**Croesis**

Crowlos wrote:

Machines are such fools, we are no longer under their control or in their crosshairs and this is how they react. Thank you Agent Gray for openly admitting the it was the machines who terminated the truce.Aggressive base? Are you kidding me? We will defend ourselves like we have before and you Machinists just love believing everything you are told, how about demanding to see proof, not once has your superiors shown you any evidence the this new base is capable of attacking.This is about control and now that they no longer have it are so quickly trying to regain it and using you to do it.

The truce, terminated by the Architect, was due to the violation of Zion building a defensive base. We have never said aggressive. However, building such a fortified city indicates that you expect an attack from the Machines. Zion had existed for 2 years with no such attack. Other than a fortified base, what else have you been doing that, if found out, would cause the Machines to attack?

There were sentinels hanging around above ground that is true, but most were used against Stalingrad, others are used for security, against rogue elements. That still leaves a fair few though, I understand that, but remember these are intelligent minds so the Machines won't just deactivate them because they are not needed. It's better to have them on standby around the only area that they may be needed then around the world.

We don't believe the base can attack the Machines, what we are arguing for is the case that Hovercraft can leave, commit violence and damage within the system and outside the system and then quickly retreat back to the base where, for a while, the Machine won't be able to get to them without huge losses.

We have seen the proof of the fortifications to the new Zion and we understand the viewpoint that the Machines are taking, why do we need even more proof?

**Crowlos** · 07/29/2007 07:34:07

Why would you even assume that Zion has any intentions of harming the system, this is the part I don't get. You assume too much and it is your superiors that have engaged in hostilities against us, like I said before this is about control and they will not stop until they get us back in a position of control.The Architect is a program that I or Neo was never to fond of because he never believed in the truce anyway.It is the machines who need to lay down their arms and just let us be.You also have some very valid points as well, I just don't believe your superiors see things the way you do.

**Croesis**

Crowlos wrote:

Why would you even assume that Zion has any intentions of harming the system, this is the part I don't get. You assume too much and it is your superiors that have engaged in hostilities against us, like I said before this is about control and they will not stop until they get us back in a position of control.The Architect is a program that I or Neo was never to fond of because he never believed in the truce anyway.It is the machines who need to lay down their arms and just let us be.

Zion has a history, even before the truce, that shows violence and damage to the system in an attempt to free Human minds from it. The Machines are acting upon centuries of knowledge of Mankind, a species who are inherently violent when it comes to what they don't understand. There are a few of us who try to convince the Machines otherwise, that Humans have evolved from the distrust and petty hatred, but actions done by Zion undoes what we try to do.

The Architect may not have preferred the truce but he kept to his word in the agreement between Zion and Machines. Zion didn't have any intention of letting the truce work for peace as Niobe herself admitted that the plans for New Zion had been worked on during the formation of the truce, something that Zion knew was prohibited by it.

If you want to be left alone, lay down your arms, dismantle your fortifications then negotiations can be made.

ReProgrammed

Agent_Pace wrote:

A few shots of Pace...and myself, ReProgrammed......Not to mention a good shot of us taking down some zionite....And the shot of her checking me out. XD

**Croesis** · 07/29/2007 09:24:46

MetaDisc wrote:

A few shots of Pace...and myself, ReProgrammed......Not to mention a good shot of us taking down some zionite....And the shot of her checking me out. XD

((I can understand if you post some of your own screenshots, or just a single shot if your argument requires it, but why re-post multiple screenshots from the initial post? If you really feel the need to, why don't you just post direct links the the images you are posting about?))

Dark_Rider

Croesus wrote:

MetaDisc wrote:
A few shots of Pace...and myself, ReProgrammed......Not to mention a good shot of us taking down some zionite....And the shot of her checking me out. XD

I can understand if you post some of your own screenshots, or just a single shot if your argument requires it, but why re-post multiple screenshots from the initial post? If you really feel the need to, why don't you just post direct links the the images you are posting about?

Guess it requires more movement of the hand and fingers, which might strain people reading these treads, and besides, it would take a while to link the pictures one by one.

**Illyria22**

Crowlos wrote:

Thank you Agent Gray for openly admitting the it was the machines who terminated the truce.

Saying the Machines restarted the war on Zion by 'terminating' the truce was over is kind of like saying that the US started the war against Japan in 1941!

Just because they were the first to say it officially doesn't mean they were the first to commit hostilities. There is a big difference between going to war against a country that's an innocent bystander (for example, Germany vs. Belgium in WW2) and going to war due to the increased hostilities of that country (Japan bombing Pearl Harbor). But the Machines stating that the truce with Zion was over -- like the USA declaring war on Japan in 1941 -- was a response to a hostile action by what is basically a foreign power.

Illyria