suplex and leg sweep should be on the same timer

nobodynoone

I was pvping against a group of people today, and one person had a mkt primary/assassin secondary hybrid load i believe (i think assassin is the one which allows leg sweep). Anyway, I was standing there in between skirmishes and blammo, in what appears to be 1 combat round, i got hit with a suplex and leg sweep by the same person. I wasn't completely asleep, so I managed to survive the sneak attack, but, looking at the system window, it occurred to me that perhaps these 2 abilities should be on one timer perhaps?

Message Edited by nobodynoone on 04-23-2006 06:17 PM
Message edited by nobodynoone on 04/23/2006 15:17:09.

Cal

Leg Sweep is really high up the tree, any Spy loadout can get it easily, same with Harrying Attack.

Zacharias

Get more thrown resistance and more thrown defense..... should solve this.....

It is hard enough as an spy to hit some one with an sneak attack, you must disable his shild and at this moment you are for some seconds in full sight for everyone..... and if the other one moves away, or jump at this moment the sneak attack fails.....

The Leg Sweep is under Shadow, and it needs only a few seconds until you can use it, after you had use it or the reuse timer is running.

I think the best thing is, stop whining and get more defense and resistance.....

nobodynoone

wow, didn't really think i'd get accused of "whining" regarding this...I really was just suggesting that perhaps these 2 high-damage dealing attacks which can be used almost instantly one after the other might be needed to look at since it may very well be an imbalance issue. I don't have any attacks or combinations of attacks that i can use in succession like that in the hacker tree with instant casts that can deal anywhere near that kind of damage. To come close, I'd need to upgrade attacks, overclock, and launch one of the logic cannons or dev field (which would take maybe 16 seconds of the person standing still, or me coming up behind them when they didn't notice). Granted, spies need to be able to sneak in, do some damage, and whatever...I think this may be a disproportionate amount of damage. Please limit your response to your constructive criticism of what I'm saying, and maybe think twice before sticking a flame in the middle there. Cheers!

Message Edited by nobodynoone on 04-23-2006 08:08 PM
Message edited by nobodynoone on 04/23/2006 17:08:18.

Cal

Well one thing... Operative as a whole specializes in ineffecient burst DPS. Combos like Leg Sweep + Suplex, or WDD + Dim Mak, or Ki-charged Foot Sweep + Punch are really what make the Operative tree even work.

The Viro trees specialize in being extremely IS effecient and doing consistant damage, they don't really have a burst option. They're only real option is Overclock, which is a lot better then the other short-term damage buffs in that Viro specials have such low DPS in comparison to Operative's.

(The rule of thumb is for specials below 100 DPS, one point of +Damage is better then +1% Damage Bonus.)

nobodynoone

oh and regarding the suggestion to get more thrown defense/resistance...maybe i just havn't studied the combat system quite enough. These are not actually knife or "thrown" attacks, though they are coming from the spy class. I figured it might need melee defense/resistance, since these are truly melee attacks, but I can see how it would be calculated with "thrown," coming from the spy tree. Its true that I probably had my awakened ability set at "hyper-dodge" and not the "thrown" resist, but my enhanced clothing gives me a decent "thrown" defense score by itself.

Cal

If the ability states "Thrown DPS" you need Thrown stuff to protect against it. Probably would have been better named Spy or Sneak Defense/Resistance, but alas...

nobodynoone

right, thanks cal, for clarifying regarding "thrown dps." I also see your point that hackers have better IS regen (well, to some extent, anyhow--because in reality i need to have at least 1 or 2 rare items with IS regen to keep up with my usage in pvp). And the diference between burst damage and sustained damage dealing, I see your point but still think that perhaps being able to deal 1500+ damage in 2 moves without any cast time might need looking at in terms of balancing things a bit better. Theres another thread I was reading up on where NoRepro mentions that theres some issues with the spy tree being able to deal too much damage, so i hope that using these 2 abilities in succession might be one of the things they're looking at. As well as neuro dart being rediculously overpowered for its postition on the tree. I really don't mind taking a licking once in a while in pvp if i get outplayed, but only assuming theres a relatively balanced playing field. And someone not being flagged, being in disguise, sneaking up behind you while you're flagged, suplexing then leg sweeping you while you hardly have time to blink might be kinda outa wack.

In a lot of ways, the attack hacker sub-trees and the spy part of the operative tree are similar. Well, MKT anyhow, and hacker are both distance attacks, with a lot of reliance on debuffing (movement speed and rooting come to mind specifically), so you have a chance to deal some damage before the enemy can run away.

**Wendigo**

Three things come to mind when I see this. The first is
resistance. The importance of managing your resistance against
the damage types that you are facing cannot be overstated. It is
the heart of CR 2.0. Your resistance against Thrown would have to
be very low to allow that kind of damage, so I think you will see a big
difference when you address that issue.

The second thing is the Evade Shield. It is simply a reality of
PvP these days, that if you leave your shield down, you are asking for
someone to sneak attack you. Pay attention to your shield, and
save yourself the grief.

The third thing is the damage on Suplex has already been toned down.

Taken together, I think these three things adequately balance the
abilities in question, all that's needed is awareness of all of the
factors involved.

The_Commissioner

Well I'm pretty sure I was the person who No was fighting, seeing as its something I would do load wise, and we had a discussion about it.

Now I can tell you right now, Leg Sweep isn't that strong alone. Before I interlocked you I used my Weakness Analyzer and then put on Power Tactic. I ran in, Suplex then Leg Sweeped.

No special kinda tactics, or sploit, I was using what I had to take you down. Experiment with a few things, I'm sure you can find something to take me down...although you do already :smileysad: Stupid Hackers... :smileywink:

nobodynoone

yeah i really wasn't trying to accuse you of exploiting, UM...errr, Luc....but yeah, i didn't notice having the weakness analyzer brought against me....but that would go to explaining why i took as much damage as I did. No worries, mate.

Cal

Well Weakness Analyzer isn't on the target anymore, it acts like one of the other self-buffs (Upgrade Attacks, Overclock, or Firearms Skills).

**darkhaze**

assassin is overpowered as far as 1v1 duel types of situations. and it should be really. the assassin must go thru alot more work to get a kill than say an ma who only needs to interlock. the assassin has to be patient...wait for the right time..pick the right opponent..and suffer a huge is drain with attacking. so if the results didnt have a good chance of being very good nobody would bother with the spy tree. its too much trouble.

i hate getting killed by a spy. and i knew it would become popular just because of sideroll escape since rollouts were nerfed. so i spent alot of time coming up with a loadout and strategy to fight them along with some uber clothes i have. i still havent been beaten by a spy 1 on 1. the average suplex does about 700 damage and leg sweep about 2 to 300. not a big deal. but if your not prepared to fight a spy you will get rocked and its completly fair. they dont need to be nerfed. its hard to be an assassin now. leave em alone:smileyhappy:

The_Commissioner

darkhaze wrote:

assassin is overpowered as far as 1v1 duel types of situations. and it should be really. the assassin must go thru alot more work to get a kill than say an ma who only needs to interlock. the assassin has to be patient...wait for the right time..pick the right opponent..and suffer a huge is drain with attacking. so if the results didnt have a good chance of being very good nobody would bother with the spy tree. its too much trouble.

i hate getting killed by a spy. and i knew it would become popular just because of sideroll escape since rollouts were nerfed. so i spent alot of time coming up with a loadout and strategy to fight them along with some uber clothes i have. i still havent been beaten by a spy 1 on 1. the average suplex does about 700 damage and leg sweep about 2 to 300. not a big deal. but if your not prepared to fight a spy you will get rocked and its completly fair. they dont need to be nerfed. its hard to be an assassin now. leave em alone:smileyhappy:

/manhug

Amen!

Zacharias

Thats exactly what i had sayed..... sry for my whining comment, but before CR2.0 I was upset about the hackers and I had written many things in the forum and I had get many times the answer "Get your VD to max and stop whining!".... so sry for my little revenge

The first thing, get your Shild up, everytime and especialy in pvp.
Then get enhanced clothes, for you as Hacker with Melee Res. Thrown Res. and Ballistic Res.
And the last thing, get an full deflection. With a Hyper loaded I can get on one thing a 192pts defense on melee, ballistic or Viral..... sometimes I forget to change the hyper and thats sometimes bad SMILEY

There is one class in the spy tree, called assassin...... my english isnt the best, but as I can remember it means that an assassin is a word for a fast killing person

So, get tactics, get some skills in CR2.0 and you can fight against spys too