[10.2.4] "...with the Matrix and the people in it" - Recursion - 6/11/08

**Shimada**

Our assembled individual beliefs can be difficult to categorize, but I think it wouldn't be too inaccurate to say that many of us are skeptical optimists: knowing that something is deeply wrong with the world in which we live, but at the same time believing that change for the better is possible, and fighting for that change--and even for the belief itself--with all of our strength.

privaronT

Now that's what I call an EPN who knows what their talking about as a person.

Reposco

"--with all of our strength." -Shimada

Captain Dislodge shows what I believe is a clear indication of the question every rational machinist must at one point ask themselves in this war; Is ignorance really bliss?

Neo Bless You, Crusaders
Reposco

**Tranque101**

Reposco, you of all people should know, that people have different perspectives on matters.

While you see it as enslavement, they may see it as a protective measure, while you see it as leeching, they may see it as utilizing their resources.

So infact they do have a belief system as well, but it is more Machine-Centric rather then Neocentric.

Interesting, non?

Also, even though she is a filthy traitre I appreciate this pictoral image...

-Dr. Bourdeaux

**Shinryu**

I must admit I find it odd that with such supposed belief in their ways and their cause, when someone appears who has interest in possibly joining them, they immediately begin questioning not how they can assist him but what worth he has to them.

While it is true that most Machinists have at times questioned the good of working with the Machines, I know I have, it certainly doesn't seem by this report that you are offering anything "better."

**GamiSB** · 06/14/2008 16:01:00

Shinryu wrote:

I must admit I find it odd that with such supposed belief in their ways and their cause, when someone appears who has interest in possibly joining them, they immediately begin questioning not how they can assist him but what worth he has to them.

While it is true that most Machinists have at times questioned the good of working with the Machines, I know I have, it certainly doesn't seem by this report that you are offering anything "better."

Agreed, it is sad that this organizations has forgotten that we once were open to anyone willing to hear us out. Machine, Merv, Zion, or even Cyph.

Croesis

Shinryu wrote:

While it is true that most Machinists have at times questioned the good of working with the Machines, I know I have, it certainly doesn't seem by this report that you are offering anything "better."

I too have asked myself this question as many Machinists have, the question itself is not one of confusion but of confirming what your fighting for. My answers have always been answered by the actions of EPN and Zion, which is why I remain committed to the Machinist cause.

**Ballak**

I guess apparently you guys have forgotten that we are still in a War. When someone wants to join your force, they are considered an asset. You see from them what they have to offer as value. You do not want liabilities, you want soldiers.

Akeela · 06/14/2008 23:09:51

There are many old axioms we could apply here while we sling the proverbial mud at each other, but I will keep it to one I prefer ...

"No wise man ever thought that a traitor should be trusted." ~Cicero

We will see in the coming days if taking the gamble to help this Machinist is worth its value or not.

You machinists certainly think he is worth something, otherwise why all the trouble of attempting to capturing him?

Phrack

You leave your doors open to recruit anyone off of the street, and you will have an army filled with idiots who don't know which way to point their guns, or spies.

We've gotten along quite well before now without help. And we'll continue to.

If he's supposedly seen the err of his ways and has chosen to work with us, kudos to him. If not, then he's a liability. Regardless, as was said, this is a war, and we're not on the streets begging for just anyone to join us.

**GamiSB**

War or not this organization was founded by defectors to their original causes. Denying operatives just because of their apparent lack of purpose or worth to the organization reminds me to much of the Machine and its way of dealing with programs. Something I believe many of you have pointed out to them as one of their flaws. I am not saying start handing out new recruits our book of secrets and filling them in on everything. Of course that takes time and trust, but not allowing them even the chance to prove themselves or to gain our trust is just as bad.

Phrack

GamiSB wrote:

War or not this organization was founded by defectors to their original causes. Denying operatives just because of their apparent lack of purpose or worth to the organization reminds me to much of the Machine and its way of dealing with programs. Something I believe many of you have pointed out to them as one of their flaws. I am not saying start handing out new recruits our book of secrets and filling them in on everything. Of course that takes time and trust, but not allowing them even the chance to prove themselves or to gain our trust is just as bad.

Well, maybe when you run across him, you can initiate a group hug.

privaronT

Reposco wrote:

"--with all of our strength." -Shimada

Captain Dislodge shows what I believe is a clear indication of the question every rational machinist must at one point ask themselves in this war; Is ignorance really bliss?

Neo Bless You, Crusaders
Reposco

Is bitterness really reprieve?

Reposco

Not if you believe.

Neo Bless You
Reposco

privaronT

The only thing I believe.. is when they come back they are going to feel sorely disenfranchised by the war you waged in their name.

Crusaders indeed...