PvP in MxO and it's downfalls?

HackViral

Warlocks in WoW are probably the most over powered class and the only
reason it hasn't been nerfed is cause Warlock, isn't easy by far to PvP
with if you can get your strats together you are a force in PvP as a
Warlock. In MxO Hacker is the over powered class and the only reason it
hasn't been nerfed is because everybody loves how easy it is to walk in
to a battle and do 3 clicks and kill about 5 people. Point of the
argument is you can't truly have bragging rights or claim to have much
skill at all in MxO because its far too random and mixed up to do so.
The day when you can see a level 50 Data Miner, run in to mara c and
get atleast 2 CQ is the day you know the game has taken a serious leap
forward! By that I mean that I think every class in the game should be
capable of doing PvP and being good at it with the correct strategy and
timing..as of right now it's far from it. I like interlock but at the
same time I don't like it. If interlock was tweaked more to let you
click on other players and attack them and do it quickly and easily
without becoming stuck and having rolls that are now about 95% random
interlock would be a more popular way to go. In the combat revamp if
they dont do something similar to that to "encourage" more interlock
friendly PvP then I don't see the revamp as being so huge. I also think
all exile hideouts should be made to require atleast a 3 person group
and make it where there are quests that make you going in them have a
point rather than loot...also making the loot better and mix it up
where you don't know EXACTLY what 1 of 3 items you will get on what
person making rare items..seem rare. I can't explain the system WoW has
the way it is in my mind but the best way I can put it is Epic items
are better then Blue "Rare" Items they are meant to be faster and
stronger..but at the same time it doesn't make the holder exceptionally
hard to kill because the Blue items are awesome enough to allow you to
hang in there..that probably makes little to no sense but the best way
I can sum it up is you aren't required to wear certain clothes at
certain levels to look like everybody else because of the way the armor
is in that game it's not too often you see 2 level 60's side by side
wearing the EXACT same clothing.

Also if you look on the leader boards of WoW the top 10 arent all for
example Warlocks. It's a mix the way the classes work in WoW is each is
designed for a certain purpose BUT each class with the right skill is
capable of defeating any other class with ease..it's just all in what
you know and how you do it and thats what id love to see in MxO is a
combat system where the guy with 10K CQ earns those points by knowing
*CENSORED* he is doing and not simply by loading up one class and getting in a
group and just laying in with hacks on a Purple to Red click scale.

Message Edited by HackViral on 10-27-2005 02:10 PM

Message Edited by HackViral on 10-27-2005 02:12 PM
Message edited by HackViral on 10/27/2005 13:12:57.

Arther

HackViral wrote:

The day when you can see a level 50 Data Miner, run in to mara c and get atleast 2 CQ is the day you know the game has taken a serious leap forward! By that I mean that I think every class in the game should be capable of doing PvP and being good at it with the correct strategy and timing..as of right now it's far from it.

:smileyindifferent: You want a character that is in no way designed for combat to be combative....

"Hey, I'm gonna pwn you."

"Oh yeah, I'm an Aikido Master what are you?"

"I'm an Ability Maker!"

"AAAAAah!" run and scream...

Dude, things like Data Miner and Code Crafter aren't meant for the combat field. So they aren't used there. Are you telling me that this exists in WoW? That the Ability Makers in WoW (I don't know what you call them in WoW) can pwn in the battlefield? If so, jeez, how unrealistic is that...

HackViral

It doesn't exist in WoW because you can be a Warrior and still make
clothes your Profession is different from your Class which is what this
game also needs..do away with the Coder tree and leave like Proxy tech.
and make Coder and what not something seperate. If a Hacker can be
combat ready why can't a data miner? Whats a Hacker really do? they
break in computer system and write virii ect..why can't a data miner
extract data from RSIs and do damage that way?

Arther

It doesn't exist in WoW because you can be a Warrior and still make clothes your Profession is different from your Class which is what this game also needs..

I don't think so. I really don't see what the big deal is of players switching between different disciplines. But that's just me.

It might be your preferrence to have all disciplines capable for combat, but I just don't get the big deal. The complaint here seems a bit superficial, in my opinion.

do away with the Coder tree and leave like Proxy tech. and make Coder and what not something seperate. If a Hacker can be combat ready why can't a data miner? Whats a Hacker really do? they break in computer system and write virii ect..why can't a data miner extract data from RSIs and do damage that way?

So basically the Data Miner will be another... hacker. Great another hacker. More reason for people to complain. Good, this is good.

Midori-Megami

Oh all things said so far, this I agree with the below the most. The biggest
thing missing is "purpose". (Sorry had to quote Smith). With
purpose comes the need to fix all the other things that might be broke
with it.

As much as I hate to say it, the archives are primarily about farming
items and a secondary side-effect of PvP. There are many things about
the archives that prevent really well balanced PvP.

Right now, I hear calls from my Sirens about PvP in Mara and Stamos.
Who's being over run by whom. So, we go and we either get over
run or we over run the others (Zionists or Machines) The problem is
that, jack out and jack in later and you would have never known like
any of that happened. There is no ownership or effect. There is
no "purpose" besides bragging rights.

PvP Contests and Live Events are different. There are prizes and items involved and there is a title to be hard at times.

While the Sirens are about to re-enter this field of activity, I find
it hard to consider PvP at Mara and Stamos as very critical to our
success. At best, it's a training ground for Live Events. It needs more.

-MM

[CoZ]LostProphet wrote:
I rarely PvP unless I have to because there is absolutely no point to it.

Message Edited by Midori-Megami on 10-27-2005 02:50 PM
Message edited by Midori-Megami on 10/27/2005 13:50:27.

HackViral

Who says it would have to be a Hacker? You know Hybrid classes can work
to. Data Miner could be something like a Hacker/Fighter..the
possibilities go on. There would be no need to complain about it if the
devs would keep things balanced and fine tuned instead of throwing
something in the game to make people happy to take their minds off of
the problem at hand. Why give us a stun pill when you can just fix stun
all together? It doesn't take a combat revamp to fix something that
small. I think that the Pro. Tree as it is also needs to be revamped
greatly diving things in to Professions and Classes..wouldn't you like
to be able to be a Apparrel Maker and still keep your MA build without
having to spend about 100mil info to level all that crap up when all
you simply have to do is just use the skill to gain more experience and
simply buy or loot new abilities for that pro? This can tie in with the
economy just as simple less money being spent on actual abilities and
more people getting that means a more productive community which means
more money goes to other players and a cycle starts instead of it just
going in to thin air when you level your crap up. All this is getting a
bit off topic from the original its going from PvP disadvantages to
game improvement..but I suppose thats ok. All in all I think like I
said the tree should be split in 3 Hybrid,Melee,Ranged and then on the
side have your individual Professions. Im not saying make it where you
choose Hacker, and you're Hacker for life...let people change their
class but if each class was tuned right...it could be change your class
but you can't mix one with the other.

theconstant

I personally, would like to see cq's being alloted to how
many kills per
org you have. This would say, give factions, or individuals some
sort of base for any alliance with factions of other orgs that wish to
strictly focus on a particular org to /pvp with. Of course, many
people would not follow, or even regard the ranking system.
But I'd think it could be valuable to those of us that would
prefer
something like this.

So you can click on a player, and lets say he's machine, and see how many Zion: or Merv: kills they have.

Just a thought.

Sweeet

The problem with PVP in MxO lies in the game mechanics. As
the whole
world is designed around interlock along with applying attributes with
a random dice system, introducing hackers throws balance right out the
window. Yes hackers add a little more depth to the game but at the same
time greatly sacrificing game balance. All this with a weak mission
system that is highly repetative and you have a very average MMO.
*edit* Being able to apply your own attributes adds to imbalance bacuse
if you don't know how to apply them correctly, you compromise your
abbilty to PVP effectively.

WoW gets around this problem by giving every race along with class a
specific attribute layout that is well balanced. You can then only
apply talent points which buff certain areas of your class to your
style of play in turn optimizing your PVP performance. All this with a
very indepth quest system that never keeps you in the same area for too
long (forgoing the repetivness) and you have a high end MMO.

That is why WoW is doing so well. They streamline gameplay with an
excellent game engine. I would love nothing more than to be able to say
the same about MxO. But untill SOE pull there finger out, its not going
to happen.

Message Edited by Sweeet on 10-28-2005 12:08 AM
Message edited by Sweeet on 10/27/2005 15:08:32.

**Enon_**

Sweeet wrote:

That is why WoW is doing so well.

Acutally, a lot of Diablo II and Wc3 players went to WoW. It's the same genre and both games have lot of players.

Besides that, I hate the whole free attack in WoW (I played/saw it once from a friend so might be wrong). It's just like every other game, except WoW has several updates a month and you have to pay for it. You might as well buy Diablo II.....

MxO however, has a great interlock system, which unfortunatly has his problems. I just hope they fix it soon and then everything should be allright, besides the lack of interaction from the le characters...

Charlenna

Heh... Personally I kind of like free-melee over IL, because IL is nice
and flashy to watch, but it's a major burden when PvPing, because well
you're inter-locked so anyone with outside IL attacks you're
vulnerable, if an assassin creeps up on you and you're rooted, stunned,
or enraged in IL, you're screwed, you can't defend. But with free-melee
you can, because for example, an assassin's attacks are positional,
more often than not, they have to attack from behind, in IL it's very
easy for an assassin to move to right spot, but with free-melee, you're
target has complete freedom to move about, so if they see you they can
pop your stealth completely depriving you from your high dmg attack,
forcing you to have to retreat to try again as they continue fighting
their initial enemy unless they decide to chase you down upon popping
your stealth, as the defender you have that option, and as the attacker
you have to be wary of that, forcing both players to have a bit more
strategy in what they're doing.

**Aquatium.**

thinking about it how can we compare those 2 games? they are different games, not to mention this game was the first in concept design frm a company that never did MMO's before. Im sure through time as we are seeing improvements are being made....and Midori-Megami i totally get what your saying about purpose, ive even made a few suggestions to devs on things they could add, but ultimately it also comes down to representing your org, its something maius said and i totally agree with the more i think about it..... how many times do we hear ppl complain about zion? too many SMILEY

, why cause either too many fight or not enough, well i for one will fight for zion when called for, i dont even think about the enemies numbers, if theres too many it simply means i have to employ a different tactics than one where i might have some backup....and with that im trying to bring something back to zion which does have some realyl good pvp players who can work solo or in teams, and at least i hope earn the respect of the enemy if not anything else.... and as i awlays say, once the numbers are unbalanced with zion having to many, i drop out of pvp and try to get others to to balance things out...then if needed help again......

so real purpose i hope is something that will come, it will give more meaning to pvp, though at teh same time , something is coming to add to this SMILEY

, but to represent your org also has purpose... you just need to see it clearly, in what im saying SMILEY

**Enon_**

Euhm Charlenna....

Enon_ wrote:
MxO however, has a great interlock system, which unfortunatly has his problems

.....

**Tytanya_MxO**

The rpg & mmo market has been saturated with fantasy/sword/sorcery games for the last 10 years...tbh I'm sick of them so comparing WoW (which has childishly plain characters & garish cartoon like environments) and a comtemporary game such as MxO is kinda redundant. I am aware and dissapointed that MxO pvp is so devoid of purpose and would welcome some comments related to a game which actually competes with it on the same level...pvp is just a part (and a very small part at the outset) as to why I chose this game what about story, what about community, what about style and substance....... is there anyone who has some contemporary or futuristic style mmorpg's that could be considered (SWG is one but imo compares badly to MxO and actively spoils its source material in a destructive manner).

Sweeet

I'm not trying to compare genres here, i'm trying to compare simple game mechanics in which yes, they can indeed be compared. WoW success on the whole has nothing to do with diablo 2 players. If the game mechanics sucked poeple wouldn't play it. WoW has the superior game engine and it's as simple as that.

inflagranti

@Tytanya:

Anarchy Online is a futuristic MMORPG and I would rate it over an
infirior kiddygame like WoW anyday... it's more like SWG than like MxO
though, not really comparable... MxO is pretty unique and while it
still has it's flaws, the developers have put some thought into it, not
blantantly copied all features from other MMOs like Blizzard has done
in WoW...