Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

**Rogue**

WGAnubis wrote:
I think you missed boon, source and Zions ability. The ones from the death of morpheus event, or do those not work anymore?

Yea, they still add to toughness. (And dont you dare deactivate like Neo's Insight. I think alot of people see them as a sort of Veteran Reward... sorta)

**Warboy**

RogueA wrote:

WGAnubis wrote:
I think you missed boon, source and Zions ability. The ones from the death of morpheus event, or do those not work anymore?

Yea, they still add to toughness. (And dont you dare deactivate like Neo's Insight. I think alot of people see them as a sort of Veteran Reward... sorta)

Neo's Insight is deactive.
But the Org ones are active Like Zion hardware req. Glimer of the Source and the other one....

LiquidZ

HCFrog wrote:

It takes 10 seconds to use it, so it would be tough in PvP, but possible.

That's not so tough... well maybe for those who are'nt hackers and are'nt used to the cast time on LC2 and Dev field....

A seperate item for "Self Buffs" and of course buffs applied to you from someone else.

This lets you see if someone else buffed them (Who is it?!!@? Let's kill him!), or if they buffed themselfs.

**r3spon5e**

Awakened buffs no. Then it becomes a tactical analyses tool and I don't think that's what you are shooting for.

However, it would be very helpful to include style stacking info since there doesn't appear to be any effort to stop this from being used in PvP, duels or otherwise.

I still don't think this should be useable in PvP, ever. Can someone explain to me why they should be entitled to know if someone has TB, patcher buffs or org abilites on in PvP?

There is no doubt that if this is useable in PvP, it will be employed to find weaknesses to attack. That is counter to the intent of maintaining integrity in duels and tournaments.

PvP is free for all, no restrictions, so I fail to see any benefit for having this available in PvP.

Even with a 10 second timer, it will be used in PvP regulary to analyze the opponents if it is available. Perfectly good assignment for a level 15....

**EnterTheFenix**

hmm the TB and HB thing is GREAT YUS, no more BSERS saying i dont have any, pshh, lawl..

**Super_Jenius**

r3spon5e wrote:

There is no doubt that if this is useable in PvP, it will be employed to find weaknesses to attack. That is counter to the intent of maintaining integrity in duels and tournaments.
PvP is free for all, no restrictions, so I fail to see any benefit for having this available in PvP.
Even with a 10 second timer, it will be used in PvP regulary to analyze the opponents if it is available. Perfectly good assignment for a level 15....

So what you're saying is that players could use this info strategically, and that a level 15 could actually participate in PvP. I think you're arguing for it in PvP, not against. :smileytongue: If everyone has it, I don't see an issue.

**r3spon5e**

What I said was what I said. Read it again if you don't quite get it. The tool is intended to be used for duels and tournaments. This is Frog's intention and specifically why he put a ten second timer on it, "to make it difficult to use in PvP". My point is that a ten second timer is not a practical obstacle to using it in PvP and if it has any tactical use in PvP (intended or not) it will be used excessively for that purpose.

It should not be useable in PvP at all unless the intent is to design a tool for analyzing opponents weaknesses in PvP. That was never stated to be the intented use of this tool. Maybe you'd like that and that's fine for you to say so.

I don't see any justification for creating a tool to analyze opponents' weaknesses in PvP. I thoroughly support the design of a tool for determining whether people are violating the rules of tournament or lying about buffs and what not in a duel.

Since PvP has no rules, there is no ethical need for such a tool unless it can be used for determining whether peeps are using sploitz.

If you want a tool so you can sit there waiting to flag up on someone who isn't tbing or doesn't have buffs in PvP or better yet so you can chicken out because everyone is buffed, then just say so. Don't try to twist my words because you don't agree with me and don't have the guts to just say what you want.

Your opinion is just as valuable as mine. Your manipulation of my opinion is worthless.

**Super_Jenius**

I wasn't manipulating your opinion. I think it is pretty clear. I was just pointing out that the problems you listed for having the tool in PvP could also be seen as good things by others. Plus, I included a friendly smiley, because I'm... er... friendly. :smileytongue:

Peer

People on Vector don't "wait to flag up".

If you make it unusable while flagged... it makes it worthless to an entire server.

cantido

Hey Froggie,

Will this be useable in Stealth or concealment? What would the range be for this? (20m+ PLZPLZPLZ) Also, will it tell us what kind of buffs are on Proxies? Like fortify sim?

What about some operative abilities like Force combat? Beserker? Iron Body? (just some examples, I've been offline for 2 weeks now, so I'm surprized I can remember that much)

IMHO, I don't think abilities with a 20 second or less duration timer should be included and anything that last for 1 minute or more should be included into the Diagnostic tool.

When getting a reading from the diagnostic tool, can we get a message stating the tree the buff is from, and how many?

Example: I diagnose -=Dude=- and he has Bolster Health 1.0, Personal Firewall 1.0, and Enhansed Dodge running on him. The Message that I would recieve is: -=Dude=- has 2 Patcher buffs running, and 1 Upgrade Artist buff running.

This way, it allows the savvy MxO player to try and figure out what those abilities are, without invading on that person's exact combat stategy.

Dv01D

[quote]Will this be useable in Stealth or concealment? What would the range be for this? (20m+ PLZPLZPLZ) [/quote]

NOTHING, again, NOTHING should have a longer range than the rifles.

Not hacks, not tools, NOTHING.

HCFrog

r3spon5e has a really good point: it is not within the design of this tool to use it for PvP.

The tricky part really is how do you see if someone wants to be scanned
by the tool, without using a dialog confirmation box (which as I said
earlier is open to abuse). You can't check the player's PvP status
because of Vector; the tool wouldn't work there and would clearly not
meet the design intended.

So, what I'm trying to get now are use conditions that make it harder
to use in PvP. And the range issue seems like a fantastic idea.

10 second use time, range of 1 meter, user must be visible... those
three things would combine to make it really hard to use in PvP, I
would imagine, because even if you're in interlock you'd typically be
moving more than 1 meter away within 10 seconds. It will have some sort
of little animation on using the tool as well, so if someone walked up
really close to you and played the little animation, you'd know what
they were up to... that might be an ideal solution.

bonobi

another thing that would help keep it out of pvp was (like you said) a range you had to be from the target. But how about if the target moves then it stops which would make it really hard cause in pvp they're people are always moving.

Kivo

Why don't you just make it so the target has to accept being scanned, like an emote? Make a pop up box that says Player1 would like to scan your for org based abilities, do you accept? Yes No.

He can then accept it if it is a duel, thereby making it useful only for dueling and not for PvP because no one would accept during PvP.

**r3spon5e**

put it in the awakened tree (like desperation) and give it a high memory cost to load. If it costs 80 memory to load, takes 10 seconds to use within a 1m range and can't be used while stealthed, then I doubt you will see anyone but the foolhardy trying to use it it PvP

The only drawback with this is lower level players wouldn't be able to use it. Not a problem for tournament use but maybe a bit of a drawback for lower levels who want to duel, so....

can you make it's memory cost adjust with a player's level? (like the buffs on the security t-shirt)

can you make it so the person using the tool conns as a "Diagnostic"?

I also like bonopi's suggestion since it is simple but effective if possible.

Message Edited by r3spon5e on 05-05-2006 02:03 PM

I edit everything

Message Edited by r3spon5e on 05-05-2006 02:05 PM

Message Edited by r3spon5e on 05-05-2006 02:08 PM
Message edited by r3spon5e on 05/05/2006 13:08:50.