Phrack wrote:

How the the first awakened redpill survive, without hovercraft to save him from the sewers?

There will be at least one hovercraft piloted by at least one of the survivors from the previous iteration.

Personally, I've always been finicky about the concept that code bombs "kill" bluepills at all.

I've never seen a shred of evidence to suggest that this would happen, other than the RP of other players who assume that code bombs do kill bluepills. 

According to Popper, a while back Taecross used some code bombs which killed several bluepills, perhaps more. This wasn't propaganda by the Machines or Machinists, it came from EPN's own leader who banned their use beforehand. What more evidence can you ask for?

Didn't he put you on probation for that?

How?  If the Machines wipe out all of humanity and all of Zion, then how is one hovercraft left to be piloted?

Who teaches this newly awakened (and alone) bluepill to pilot it?  Or furthermore, how to jack in/out of the Matrix all by his little old lonesome?

Phrack wrote:

Personally, I've always been finicky about the concept that code bombs "kill" bluepills at all.

I've never seen a shred of evidence to suggest that this would happen, other than the RP of other players who assume that code bombs do kill bluepills. 

According to Popper, a while back Taecross used some code bombs which killed several bluepills, perhaps more. This wasn't propaganda by the Machines or Machinists, it came from EPN's own leader who banned their use beforehand. What more evidence can you ask for?

Didn't he put you on probation for that?

Phrack wrote:

How?  If the Machines wipe out all of humanity and all of Zion, then how is one hovercraft left to be piloted?

Who teaches this newly awakened (and alone) bluepill to pilot it?  Or furthermore, how to jack in/out of the Matrix all by his little old lonesome?

I'm sorry. I was lead to believe, through video archives, that The One aids the Machines in resetting the simulation and then s/he chooses a certain disproportionate amount of males and females to survive and remain in the real to help rebuild and populate Zion thus enabling the cycle again. Surely one of these will be able to remember how to pilot a hovercraft and use it's systems...

Popper's witness of "dead bluepills" were a pile of bodies outside the Camon Heights Church, within the simulation...  which does not prove anything.

And yes.  I was put on probation for that, along with a couple of others.  What's your point?

Phrack wrote:

Popper's witness of "dead bluepills" were a pile of bodies outside the Camon Heights Church, within the simulation...  which does not prove anything.

And yes.  I was put on probation for that, along with a couple of others.  What's your point?

Tell me then, how did he know they drowned specifically? Why did he ban them beforehand? There must have been a reason for him to do that.

But if you'll scroll up, I also mentioned "the first awakened redpill."

At that time, there was no Zion.  There were no hovercrafts.  However, Zero One most certainly did exist, and so did the pod fields and the sewers they flushed into.

In regard to the first question...  no clue, go fig.  There's no proof to suggest that they did.

As far as the second question...  code bombs are a bad PR move?

Phrack wrote:

But if you'll scroll up, I also mentioned "the first awakened redpill."

At that time, there was no Zion.  There were no hovercrafts.  However, Zero One most certainly did exist, and so did the pod fields and the sewers they flushed into.

The story of the first could well have been made up. The Machines knew from the Oracle that the system of the One was needed and a place for awakened to stay was required. Isn't it likely they released the first few and gave them some knowledge for the technical side? It was most certainly not the 'well oiled machine' that Zion has today, or at least had during the war before the truce but everything has to start somewhere.

Phrack wrote:

In regard to the first question...  no clue, go fig.  There's no proof to suggest that they did.

As far as the second question...  code bombs are a bad PR move?

I don't think Popper was concerned with PR at that point.

But it does lend question into Machine "efficiency."  The concept that the Machines allow people to leave from the simulation to avoid a system-wide catastrophe makes sense.  But allowing them to create their own city, breed, build defenses against the Machines, then actively seek out and wake up others doesn't make sense.  Especially when you consider that the Machines already intend to kill them anyway.

If they have to allow them to wake up, seems to me like it would make more sense to kill them immediately upon awakening.  No muss, no fuss.

The awakened Humans aren't going to realise they are part of a cycle, they're just going to think that they were lucky and 'saved' from the Matrix, thus helping to build a society which after several generations coming and going the prophecy, fed to them by the oracle, will become embedded into their society for when the anomaly does emerge. It has to seem like they are fluorishing, and I don't think the Machine will want to stop them from creating defences, especially when they are easily circumvented.

As I said its a system, the Human element is predicted obviously, but it's still a system.

I wouldn't have thought so either.  But I guess I was proven wrong following the incident when he actually took time to address the 300 angry redpills from all organizations who were screaming at him about what had happened, blaming EPN for one of their liaisons who'd gone rogue as opposed to blaming themselves for not being able to stop him sooner.

Phrack wrote:

I wouldn't have thought so either.  But I guess I was proven wrong following the incident when he actually took time to address the 300 angry redpills from all organizations who were screaming at him about what had happened, blaming EPN for one of their liaisons who'd gone rogue as opposed to blaming themselves for not being able to stop him sooner.

I was under the impression that Popper had banned their use before that incident, hence the reason why an EPN went rogue.

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

Popper was different. He knew something was wrong, his mind was prepared to accept the shock of waking up in a pod of goo. Plus, Neo & company may have been watching him the whole time (very likely, they were the ones to call him) and quickly jacked his pod to make sure he could get out.

The other blues didn't have that luxury and were forced to flail about until they choked on their own goo.

Certainly possible.

But it does not mean that every bluepill body seen following a code bomb detonation is a bluepill that has died in the real.

Even the excuse of there not being enough hovercraft around to save them kind of falls apart when you look into the "cycle" of how all freeborn humans are killed by the Machines, until one wakes up and frees the first few.  How the the first awakened redpill survive, without hovercraft to save him from the sewers?

I'll say it again.  Death in the Matrix does not always necessarily mean death in the real, to assume it does is ignorant.

This idea is dependent on whether or not there would ever be another Michael Popper. Up until him, there had only been those who were awakened by other awakened, going all the back to the first One.

Also, how do you know a body is left behind? All you see is him falling and then a funeral. There is enough room there to speculate that they buried an empty coffin.

But it was my understanding that Morpheus had the idea that code bombs would shock people awake for just a few moments. Just long enough to look around at their prison's walls. Just long enough to see what the Matrix was. Then, the Machines would put them back to sleep. Of course, when they woke up, they would have these visions of a nightmarish scenario that would haunt them for the rest of their lives. . .however long that turned out to be. So when their RSI's 'died', it was only because they were conscious in the Real for a time.

I could be wrong about it, though. But I remember Morpheus running around trying to get people to believe in him, trying to get us to join him. And I think that was his explanation to more than a few of us.