New coding and a hidden change

KernelPanic

Hello all, I wanted to discus the changes to coding and illuminate an issue that has been brought into this latest patch. Now this was only mentioned in the patch notes...

"There is a change to the charge ammount in crafted items."

This change bring the ammount of charges on items from 15 down to 3 for some, 2 for tools, and 1 for some. Now let me go into a little bit of detail into the crafting system of MxO.

Crafters need bits to create fragments. Each fragment has 2-4 bits per compiled fragment. Items take multiple fragments to create. When you decompile an item, it gives you the number of bits that the item had in fragments. So if a shirt takes 5 fragments to create, when you decompile said shirt, it will give you 5 bits, each bit randomly from one of the fragments (i.e. fragment z takes bits 1, 2, and 3, you'll randomly get a bit 1, 2, or 3).

Now why is this an issue you ask? How are crafters supposed to get bits? Bits are needed to make EVERYTHING in this game, and your average item takes 15-20 bits (an average of 5 fragments per item, an average of 3 bits per frag).

You can get bits 2 ways in this game, by decompiling, and by looting (nowhere near efficient). Since fragments have an average of 3 bits per fragment, if you as a crafter create source code, then compile it, then decompile it, with 3 charges, you get back EXACTLY what you put into creating the item in the first place. There is no gain of bits whatso ever.

This means that the ONLY way to get bits, is by looting PERIOD. You can no longer craft items, then decompile them to get bits. No more bits, the economy crumbles. You'll have crafters that cannot craft ANYTHING. Relying on looting will bring crafting time from hours to DAYS. This is completely unacceptable.

Now I have in the past been optimistic about this change, and I have stated that myself and everyone should give Sony a chance. This issue however, has brought what is IMO the most balanced, and easy crafting system of ANY MMO I have played, to absolutely worthless. This I cannot and will not abide.

I have never been one to brag, I have never once advertised my wares, either in game, out of game be it message boards, etc. yet in this system, I was able to gain over 140 MILLION information selling abilities on marketplace in the first month of go live. On Regression, (and some on recursion), if you have ever bought an operative or awakened ability I thank you for your patronage SMILEY

As someone who has helped the economy of my server, this issue saddens me, but I refuse to allow some oversight to take my work from hours to days and weeks. If this situation is not resolved, expect my (and more than likely other crafters once they get fed up) departure from this game.

Sincerely,

Kernel Panic

**Walrus**

I began looking into this earlier when someone else mentioned the change--this should've been in the patch notes and I'm sorry it was overlooked.

However, I also understand the logic of the change. What you just described is essentially an unbalanced gain of bits--you shouldn't be able to create an item then gain more out of it than you put in. To look at it from another angle, what if we were talking about $Info here? Does it make sense that you could go buy an item for i$200 then go and sell it for i$400?

So how do players get bits? By Decompiling what you loot. Does this slow down coding? Yes, and I understand the gripe about that. But was the old system--where you could code an item for a number of bits then Decompile it and gain more bits from it--balanced? No.

ma3lstrom

This issue however, has brought what is IMO the most balanced, and easy crafting system of ANY MMO I have played, to absolutely worthless.

The previous crafting system was easy because it was unbalanced.

KernelPanic

No, how I've been getting bits is by crafting items then decompiling them. There's an inherint balance in this in that it takes time to decompile every item. So if you craft and compile an item, you spend info per craft, per compile, then you have to spend the timer time (10 secs I believe), per item you decompile. This allows you to "farm" bits, but still requires effort and time (it is NOT free).

The key difference here is that in this game, there is no resource gathering. You cannot "mine" bits. This is the reason why you are allowed to create items then decompile them for bits. Running missions, killing mobs, and decompiling/getting bits would take 100 times longer than simply creating them decompiling.

KernelPanic

ma3lstrom wrote:

This issue however, has brought what is IMO the most balanced, and easy crafting system of ANY MMO I have played, to absolutely worthless.

The previous crafting system was easy because it was unbalanced.

How many hours have you spent crafting, then decompiling items? I averaged 4-5 hours per session of crafting. It was not unbalanced, and required effort. Timers balance the equation as well as info cost per bit and per frag.

Also if this system was so easy and unbalanced, why is marketplace filled with nothing but overpriced or default priced items and complete garbage?

Message Edited by KernelPanic on 09-01-2005 05:42 PM
Message edited by KernelPanic on 09/01/2005 16:42:30.

Eclipses%60

Walrus wrote:
I began looking into this
earlier when someone else mentioned the change--this should've been in
the patch notes and I'm sorry it was overlooked.

However, I also understand the logic of the change. What you just
described is essentially an unbalanced gain of bits--you shouldn't be
able to create an item then gain more out of it than you put in. To
look at it from another angle, what if we were talking about $Info
here? Does it make sense that you could go buy an item for i$200 then
go and sell it for i$400?

- Absolutely makes sense Walrus. That's called economy, buy low sell high.

So how do players get bits? By Decompiling what you loot. Does
this slow down coding? Yes, and I understand the gripe about that. But
was the old system--where you could code an item for a number of bits
then Decompile it and gain more bits from it--balanced? No.

This
slows down coding TOO much. WAY WAY WAY TOO MUCH. I read a thread
somewhere when someone said this patch contained no nerfs. Well, that's
not true because this is one blatant nerf. You guys give love to the
coder tree, then snatch it right back. When you're getting 1 bit
from things that is unbelieveable.

And this just isn't about the bits. It's about how I spend HOURS
farming mobs to get 1 red frag to be able to make just 3 of that item?
Heck no. I can understand bringing it down from 15, but it should have
been brought down to about 7 or 8 or so, not down to 3 and possibly
less. I spend hours farming mobs to get frags and get blessed with 3
items? That's insane. This needs to be changed, and patch notes should
start being italicized for nerfs. or put " marks around them. "Changes
have been made to the coder tree" and you go in-game and find out you
have to decompile an item twic ejust to leanr its full code.

This is insane. it needs to be fixed.

Message Edited by Eclipses%60 on 09-01-2005 05:48 PM
Message edited by Eclipses%60 on 09/01/2005 16:48:32.

Fozy

I think you're blowing it a little out of proportion. Killing low
level mobs for items is pretty quick - often one shot. Just
running around doing various missions I tend to accumulate a lot of
useless items in my inventory. Now instead of selling them for
50$i I can decompile them because they now have more value in the
limitation of bits.

Now, reducing the charges on compiled items seems like a bit of a
pain. But since you don't have to code up each frag to make an
item it's probably not that bad. I personally haven't had a
chance to try it out yet.

TheMainTest

Misread.

Message Edited by CruxCrucible on 09-01-2005 05:53 PM
Message edited by TheMainTest on 09/01/2005 16:53:05.

**DarkRevenantW**

I do not know about you guys but I get codew bits all the time, it is fairly easy I would say. I don't know but I guess it is more difficult for Coders to get code bits.

Eclipses%60

Of course not Crux. Who would ever have thought
about running out of bits with the old system? Now however, when you
decompile items and get only 1 bit, and that's a 1/8th chance it's the
one you need, I'm sure you'll begin to get a little frustrated aswell.

Message Edited by Eclipses%60 on 09-01-2005 05:58 PM
Message edited by Eclipses%60 on 09/01/2005 16:58:09.

Fozy

I don't think you decompile an item and get 1 bit. I usually get at least 3, if not more.

TheMainTest

I'm getting normal bits for items I decompile.

WyPhy

As long as you get enough charges to get back the exact same number of
bits if you decomped each charge, at least you don't loose anything.

Some items take 6 frags, and the frags take 4-5 bits each, so if I make
a 6 frag/4 bit per frag item, I better get enough charges to get 24
bits back out of it, which would mean the number of charges should
equal the number of frags that went into creating it.

As long as all the items are this way, then it's not too bad.

It was a bit unbalanced before, but for some reason, it seems when
things get changed (in any MMO), they get changed too far, making them
unfair the opposite way.

Take the stakes/silver bullets/holy water change. 3k was too
much $i for selling them, but changing it to 1 $i was too far also,
should be 100-500 $i each. I understand you wanted us to use or decomp
them but you went too far.

As I said, if you get as many charges as frags required to make it,
then it's even and though hard to take, it will probably be accepted.

One option could be to give 1 extra bit per decomp when standing next to a signal booster as a bonus.

Not unbalancing enough to be the same as before but since the boosters
work now (unlike when CSR_Twitch told us they did) it could be a nice
little bonus.

The only other option for coding would be to make everything one charge
and give back all the bits that went into making it, which probably
wouldn't work with how the code was originally written.

Peer

I don't mind this as much, since I farm Tabor Park every week and have filled my entire code archive with bits. (all 8 in even distribution).

My big complaint is that since this patch, I have only been able to get Awakened Interfaces. The Crushers are not dropping Oper Ints anymore. I spent an hour and a half and only got a single Awakened Int.

The sisters were also dropping Awakened Ints and... Hacker Ints.

Were the Red Frag loot tables changed?

Eclipses%60

It's not just that guys, but it's the compiling
nerf too. I farm for hours for one red frag to make clothes or whatever
and I'm only allowed to make 3?