What was taken from Merv....the keymaker? or Sati?

**Tygrius**

Having been watching matrix revolutions the last few days....over and over......Something has popped in my head during the seen in Club Hel. the Merovingan states that "If you take something from me, you will pay the price."....along with "Of course I know. It is my business to know."

So, what if Merv had plans for Sati as well. However, he knew that the oracle planned to take her under her own care and therefore demanded the kill-code from Rama-kamdra in exchange for Sati being granted exile in the matrix?

Up until now, I had merely presumed he had meant that what was "taken from him" was the keymaker. However, it was Neo, Trinity, and the Oracle who took the keymaker.

So what do you think? Any chance that what the merovingan was upset about losing was Sati?

zeroone506

Don't forget that it was the Oracle who sent Neo to get the Keymaker, and the Merv knew that.

Other than that, nice theory. Could be both, actually.

**Tygrius**

yes i had thought about that. My reasoning for him not using the kill code due to that is that he is obsessed with "cause and effect". He has lived though other versions of the matrix and knows the process of the one, including having to return to the source. So, while he had captured the keymaker for his own personal use, I believe he knew, deep down, that the One was destined to retrieve the keymaker in order to return to the source.

Sati, on the other hand, had no purpose. For that, her potential could be unlimited. I know I'd be upset if I lost that.

**Vesuveus**

So he knew the One would be coming after the Keymaker in order to get to the source. So he put his pieces in place in order to benefit from the cycle. Kidnapping the Keymaker means the One comes to him. Rama-Kandra and Sati seem to be a chance happening. Sati is the link from the Merovingian to Oracle.

It seems to me that the arrangement was for the Merovingian to get the Trainman to bring Sati to the Matrix from Mobil Ave. In return he gets the Oracle kill code. Once Sati is in the Matrix, Oracle takes care of her, not Merovingian. So Merovingian was mad at Morpheus, Neo, Trin for taking the Keymaker.

That still does not explain to me how he would use the killcode on Oracle or why he never got the chance to use the killcode on her. He made a deal for the Oracle to be "given" to him. What happened to the attempt on her with the killcode? Was it the fact that she got another "shell"? Now the killcode is worthless? There goes his deal with Rama-Kandra. Killcode is obsolete.

**ShiXinFeng**

Okay, I think this may give some insight into why Sati was originally created.

The Oracle was seperated from her old shell because of her choice to help Neo and humankind.

Trinity:
What happened?

Oracle:
I made a choice and that choice cost me more than I wanted it to.

Morpheus:
What choice?

Oracle:
To help you, to guide Neo. Now, since the real test for any choice is how we make the same choice again, knowing full well what it might cost, I guess I feel pretty good about that choice, 'cause here I am, at it again.

Sati, Rama-Kandra, Kamala; all were a means to this end. The Oracle tells Rama-Kandra and Kamala to create Sati out of love for each other. She does so knowing that they will want to bring the child to her for safe-keeping. But she doesn't yet know what the price will be, even though she does know that they will have to go through the Merovingian to do it.

I think her purpose for all this was because she knew Neo would eventually end up in the Merv's power (either via the Keymaker problem or something else). She couldn't risk this, so she put into motion the sequence of events that would keep the Merv busy.

**Villemar_MxO**

I think basically Sati is not relevant to the One Cycle. My simplified view is that the Merovingian has been through this several times before, and he kidnapped the Keymaker to insert himself into this One Cycle by making this newest One come to him, to size him up, to show off his relevance. His little rant in Reloaded is merely a fit of pique, a general rant. He is very old and filled with terrible ennui. I don't think Sati means anything special to him other than another Exile processed through the Mobil Ave method.

The grudge with the Oracle goes back a long ways, I think on wiki or something it was speculated that Oracle represents foresight and the Merovingian represents hindsight; that's why he wants the Oracle's eyes, so he can have both.

Of course, it is no accident that the W Bros used the term Merovingian, it is basically a parody of Holy Blood Holy Grail (I don't think DaVinci Code was out before they made the sequels).

**GamiSB**

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Okay, I think this may give some insight into why Sati was originally created.
The Oracle was seperated from her old shell because of her choice to help Neo and humankind.
Trinity:
What happened?
Oracle:
I made a choice and that choice cost me more than I wanted it to.
Morpheus:
What choice?
Oracle:
To help you, to guide Neo. Now, since the real test for any choice is how we make the same choice again, knowing full well what it might cost, I guess I feel pretty good about that choice, 'cause here I am, at it again.
Sati, Rama-Kandra, Kamala; all were a means to this end. The Oracle tells Rama-Kandra and Kamala to create Sati out of love for each other. She does so knowing that they will want to bring the child to her for safe-keeping. But she doesn't yet know what the price will be, even though she does know that they will have to go through the Merovingian to do it.
I think her purpose for all this was because she knew Neo would eventually end up in the Merv's power (either via the Keymaker problem or something else). She couldn't risk this, so she put into motion the sequence of events that would keep the Merv busy.

To further this idea it could also have been to given Neo and Ramma Kandra a chance to speak. Ramma Kandra opens Neo's eyes that even programs are able to love and experience feelings and emotions which would have had an effect on him to push him to barter for peace over anything else.

zeroone506

Vesuveus wrote:

So he knew the One would be coming after the Keymaker in order to get to the source. So he put his pieces in place in order to benefit from the cycle. Kidnapping the Keymaker means the One comes to him. Rama-Kandra and Sati seem to be a chance happening. Sati is the link from the Merovingian to Oracle.
It seems to me that the arrangement was for the Merovingian to get the Trainman to bring Sati to the Matrix from Mobil Ave. In return he gets the Oracle kill code. Once Sati is in the Matrix, Oracle takes care of her, not Merovingian. So Merovingian was mad at Morpheus, Neo, Trin for taking the Keymaker.
That still does not explain to me how he would use the killcode on Oracle or why he never got the chance to use the killcode on her. He made a deal for the Oracle to be "given" to him. What happened to the attempt on her with the killcode? Was it the fact that she got another "shell"? Now the killcode is worthless? There goes his deal with Rama-Kandra. Killcode is obsolete.

Uh.... he killed her, and then she got another shell?

zeroone506

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Okay, I think this may give some insight into why Sati was originally created.
The Oracle was seperated from her old shell because of her choice to help Neo and humankind.
Trinity:
What happened?
Oracle:
I made a choice and that choice cost me more than I wanted it to.
Morpheus:
What choice?
Oracle:
To help you, to guide Neo. Now, since the real test for any choice is how we make the same choice again, knowing full well what it might cost, I guess I feel pretty good about that choice, 'cause here I am, at it again.
Sati, Rama-Kandra, Kamala; all were a means to this end. The Oracle tells Rama-Kandra and Kamala to create Sati out of love for each other. She does so knowing that they will want to bring the child to her for safe-keeping. But she doesn't yet know what the price will be, even though she does know that they will have to go through the Merovingian to do it.
I think her purpose for all this was because she knew Neo would eventually end up in the Merv's power (either via the Keymaker problem or something else). She couldn't risk this, so she put into motion the sequence of events that would keep the Merv busy.

How could I have forgotten that??

Sure, Oracle helped to get the Keymaker, and Merv got pissed. Pretty clear, now, to me.

kanharn

The Oracle got killed because she gave Neo the information to take Keymaker.
Sati was the last Exile,
After her father Rama-Kandra made the deal to get her into the Matrix.
She would have had no where to go once she got there. As Rama-Kandra said to Neo "Everyone Knows the Oracle"
He probley just asked the Oracle to watch over Sati.

Yes the Merovingian was expecting Neo but as you can tell by his arrogance, He did not Expect Neo to be that strong or for his wife to help them out..

The Quote you mention from the Oracle "I made a choice and that cost me more etc.."
She got killed for helping them get the Keymaker, She probley didn't expect the Merovingian to get to her or her kill code with Seraph about.

**Villemar_MxO**

Plus of course the original actress who played the Oracle (don't recall her name offhand) passed away after Reloaded so they had to give an explanation as to why the new Oracle looked different. So I wouldn't read too much into the Oracle getting her shell destroyed between Reloaded and Rev. It's not like the W Bros planned that explanation when the wrote the sequels originally.

**ShiXinFeng**

Actually, as was stated in this other thread, the Bros W intended for the Oracle to change form during their original writes of the sequels. They had abandoned the idea though because Gloria did such a great job as was well-received by the fans. Then, when she died, they went back to their original plan.

Hmm, I wonder if, when they changed it, they decided that the Oracle would keep her shell but Sati would die. After all, she had no purpose and that would have really demonized the Merv in the eyes of the viewer.