who was merv

**Zeac**

This was a popular forum from before but i was reading the Odyssey and in like book 10 this goddess says Odysseus has to go to the underworld and some other stuff well it says Persephone is Hades wife another words the devils wife

Shadow Griever

that's a misconception many people make. You see Hades was the God of the Underworld, he ruled all dead, Tartarus(Hell) and The Elysian Fields (Heaven). The Merovingian is named after a French Royal house whose Bloodlines refutedly go back to Jesus Christ. The Exile Merv is, in a way, like Hades in that he rules the "underground" of the Matrix. The depiction of Persephone, in that she became the cold queen of the Lord of the Underworld. That's why she was given the name.

**Zeac**

wow thats a gppd exlatiation

Shadow Griever

heh, I'm not an expert on Mythology, but I know my way around.

Note: I didn't even realize this someone else did, but in the chapter 2 cinematic Persephone complains that Niobe Ruined it, and makes a comment about "A new Spring". I originally took that as a bed spring. But in the Mythology, Persephone was the daughter of the Goddess Demeter, who controlled the Harvest (technically mother nature). Persephone was abducted by Hades to be his Queen. Through one form or another Persephone was allowed back to the Living world for half a year and then had to come back to the Underworld and spend eternity switching. During the time She was gone, Demeter Grieved, creating icy winds and loss of crops. When she came back the ground flourished and the sun shined. THis is the Greek Explanation for the Winter and the Spring. Someone mentioned that it was it was a possible reference to the Myth.

**Zeac**

well u sure sound like an expert to me. well it sounds like thats where the brothers got the names of the merovingian and persaphone

Acies

I discovered this little tidbit that might shine some light on the Merv.

http://www.21stcenturyradio.com/merovingian-twyman.htm

ThePigeonKing

Thank you for that Mythology stuff, I'll definitely be linking back to this thread every time someone asks about the Merovingian and Persephone.

Also, if you want a less symbolic and more literal "who is" of the Merv... The Ashencourte and Widow's Moor constructs, like the others, are older archived versions of The Matrix. In theory and as hinted, The Merovingian was originally one of the more powerful programs in this "Gothic Matrix" (source: one of the Matrix Online official guides, also a thread all about it on the old forums quoted the guide "The Merovingian may have come from this version of The Matrix" or something to that effect). Once this version was scrapped and a new one was made, The Merovingian escaped and hid, his power acting as a safe haven for exile programs ever since.

**EndlessVoid**

Did anyone else notice that the MXO Guide states that Persephone spends half of the year with her husband in their Chateau?

I thought that was a nice, subtle reference to the story of Persephone and Demeter.

- Void

Message Edited by EndlessVoid on 09-03-2005 06:38 AM
Message edited by EndlessVoid on 09/03/2005 05:38:40.

**GamiSB**

We covered thy mylogical view of who the merv is but story wise. Him and Pherseph (killed her name) were both programmers I guess is what you would call it. They created and deleted old programs (examples being they created programs like birds and stuff like that) the reason he is so powerful and feared is that he can still do this. My belief is he created the assassin and how he looks. He's the one that came up with the hole fly thing. Also he can delete programs still. Back during Nightfall he got rid of all or Ookami and Malpheus followers. Hop[e this helps ^^

Angellice

the Merv is from a previous version of the matrix (and assuming that the brothers were using the past as a basis for the prev versions) was probably the father of the merovingien bloodline and was the cause of all the "miracles" either that or he went from shell to shell posing as a son/cousin etc, in addition he kind of plays the "devil" (or satan/lucifer) in a philisophical role in the movies.

**Tefnut**

Also, to add some more information to the excellent explaination that Shadow Griever gave, Persephone was the daughter of both the Goddess Demeter (Oracle) and the God Zeus (Architect). Persephone was allowed to be abducted by the God of the underworld, Hades (Merovingian), in order for Zues to keep tabs on him, or... in other words... as a system of control.

The Merovingian himself is granted by the machines the ability to operate as he does, because he, in his actions is a system of control for the exhiled programs who do not return to the source for deletion, but stay in his "employment". And as the above paragraph pointed out, he is in turn controlled (or lead) by his Love, Persephone, who we know helped the One find the Keymaker.

WarIock

I think the name Merovingian is supposed not to be about the actual lineage but to stand for his power and meaning while in the Matrix. Also, him being protected by those loyal to him (the Exiles), who seemed to be ready to die for him (and did), also points out that meaning, by extending the metaphor by considering the Exiles similar to the Templars (although not as good-willing).

Regarding his part, I think he was an information collector or used to watch over streams of information of some sort, which is how I guess he learned about the value of information. He could even be something like Mr. Black (since Dame White was like Persephone) His skills as a programmer could come out of that, specially if he was a program high on the Machine hierarchy (he'd have programming skills, to be able to create and manage the ones below him).
Regarding Persephone, she seems to be an intuitive program of some sorts. Obviously not as good as the Oracle, but she might be older than the Oracle (as the Merovingian comes from way back, so does she). If that's so, I'd think she was used to understand human emotion up to a point where a program such as the Oracle could be devised (not to forget that the Oracle was probably not as powerful before, being just a program designed to understand humans).
Also, we know they're both from the Machine World and not the Matrix, due to the Dame White being Persephone's predecessor and the former having to enter the Matrix with Mr. Black (we know nothing about the Merovingian, but it's relatively safe to assume that, same as Dame White couldn't enter the Matrix without Mr. Black, Persephone couldn't enter on her own either).

Shadow Griever

I always figured the Merovingian to be an Information gatherer.

"Of course I know, it is my business to know", give it away.

The theory on Persephone is interesting, although I do think that the Oracle came first. The Oracle was the cornerstone of the matrix, without her there wouldn't be a fully functional matrix. Persephone could be a sub routine, or a analyst of human emotion, she has an understanding of how people feel.

She uses kisses to "read" people, alot can be told by a kiss.

Her reaction to Trinity at Club Hell. "She'll do it, She'll kill us all if she has to. She's in Love."

And her subtle reaction to Niobe in Cinematic 2.1 "You are not the same as before" (referring to Niobe after Morpheus' death.)

Side note: if the Bros. went that far into it. Demeter was the Goddess of nature. Apollo (whose town of Delphi was famous for it's Oracle) or Athena, goddess of Wisdom, would be a better match. I can't really comment on The Architect as Zeus because of the minimal contact we have with him.

Message Edited by Shadow Griever on 09-12-2005 12:51 AM
Message edited by Shadow Griever on 09/11/2005 20:51:36.

WarIock

Shadow Griever wrote:
The theory on Persephone is interesting, although I do think that the Oracle came first. The Oracle was the cornerstone of the matrix, without her there wouldn't be a fully functional matrix. Persephone could be a sub routine, or a analyst of human emotion, she has an understanding of how people feel.

She uses kisses to "read" people, alot can be told by a kiss.

Her reaction to Trinity at Club Hell. "She'll do it, She'll kill us all if she has to. She's in Love."

And her subtle reaction to Niobe in Cinematic 2.1 "You are not the same as before" (referring to Niobe after Morpheus' death.)

Well, we know the Oracle (which most of us already accept as being the one the Architect refered to as 'the mother of the Matrix', although we're not sure) existed before the Matrix. But I also believe that Persephone and the Merovingian did too. Persephone herself is from outside the Matrix (it's hinted by Dame White being her predecessor and being from outside the Matrix), so there's no timeframe she's bound to. Specially since this is the only Matrix we know the Oracle to be involved with. The Merovingian or others might very well be from the previous two Matrixes.

Yet, it's just a theory. For all we know, Dame White could've been the replacement of the Oracle when she entered the Matrix (she shifted roles, but her previous purpose would probably still need filling) and Persephone the one after Dame White...I just don't think Persephone's that young.

Shadow Griever

The Merovingian is definitely from at least 2 or 3 matrices passed, he makes referrences to Neo's "predecessors" meaning more than one, so he's been around a while.

And the Black-White relationship is suppose to mirror Mero-Persephone. If I remember correctly White was a communications program, whether this be for the Matrix or not is anyones guess. it could be possible that Persephone was created as a means of understanding Human Communication, using my above statement as examples