CR2.0. and Patches.

**Synapse777**

Yes, recently I've sucked at PvP I don't know why, I really don't... I never was a uberleet high roller but I had my time in 2007 heh, but considering the state of the game, I don't care much either about past glory or whatever in the videogame... but... each patch nerfs rolls or changes things a little here and there and I was wondering if the 9mmfu would be so nice as to let people know about these changes to their builds and how to still make their class an enjoyable one to play (hence compensating for the nerfs) - because a thing that slipped by me is that Accuracy actually messes up rolls = more accuracy higher chance to roll higher and higher chance to roll lower.. I mean W T F who made that brilliant idea??? -.-
- I guess this is not a new thing for the leet pvp'ers out there or the guys remembering the initial CR 2.0 post.. but.. maybe it was time to make the nerfs and tweaks public in a game that got so flawed Combat System as MXO for the "casual" players to have some fun in... and then I have a suggestion to kill off all hypers - yes, completely wipe them, they don't do any good, messes up rolls (half the time my attacks works better without the hypers on) and would kill the stacking issue that's pretty well known by now how to do... that was all. Discuss or flame either way it's all good.

**GoDGiVeR**

Killing hypers pretty much kills the need for defense rolls and would make combat pretty much suck balls due to MASSIVE SPAMMAGE, just look at Thrown Defense. Due to lack of Throw Def %, the only thing you can do against their accuracy is spam abilities against them in IL or have powerless/confuse/stun abs OoIL. Do not want.

**The_Bruceter**

Syn as i said the other day there, they haven't tweaked anything (that i know of.) Everything they do is in the patch notes.

Didn't know about the high acc means you can roll lower aswell but i only wear about 3 acc items anyways.

As for the hypers, defo no to that. Would prefer to see 2 hypers than none.

**Gerik**

I thought they lowered accuracy or something in all the operative trees in one patch?

**Bayamos**

If your base accuracy, µ, is the mean/median/mode of the Guassian distribution, I believe changing your accuracy would shift the bell curve left or right, so that "higher accuracy can make you roll lower" bit isn't exactly true.

**Denary**

Bayamos wrote:

If your base accuracy, µ, is the mean/median/mode of the Guassian distribution, I believe changing your accuracy would shift the bell curve left or right, so that "higher accuracy can make you roll lower" bit isn't exactly true.

I'd have thought so similarly.

Generally on a graph you would have Accuracy against %Chance.

There would be a curve that allowed for a +ve % chance to roll an accuracy plus or minus 50 pts of your base accuracy for example If you therefore had a base accuracy of 127 for example then at 127 the percentage chance would be at it's highest while at 77 and 177 there would be 0% chance of obtaining that accuracy meaning you can roll an accuracy between the range 77 - 177.

If you were then to increase your base accuracy by 10 pts the shape of that curve wouldn't change, what would change is where the curve is on the graph. So you would have the highest chance of rolling a 137 but the possible range is between 87 - 187

(Numbers all made up SMILEY

)

**NeoExcidious** · 10/21/2008 09:24:49

Higher accuracy = roll lower? Who gave you that ideea? And if you were a good pvper in 2007 and now you suck, as you say, that implies you havent been playing since 2007, which would explain why you suck. If though that is not true, you forgot the new content factor and maybe the people's inventive trait. There are sleepwalker clothes, ninja GIs, Valkyr shades, etc. and people can always come up with new builds(loads) so you can expect that your overall pvp success rate will drop.Getting rid of hypers is your worst ideea yet. I mean really, how can you pvp if you don't have some defense against each load? Without those, the rate of deaths in pvp would increase, and we all know what happens when people die in pvp. (i.e. ...cursion).

**9mmfu**

So a couple of things, we haven't changed the gaussian curve algorithm that drives your rolls for either Accuracy or Defense in a very long time (since CR2.0 went into effect if I remember correctly). We have only adjusted the bonuses you can obtain and fixed some coding that caused an ability or two to never miss under some specific circumstances.

Your Accuracy and Defense final values are your maximum possible roll on the gaussian curve.

**Pylat**

If I remember right, apparently your roll will range from 1 to your accuracy on either end of the bell curve. With 1 and your accuracy on the extreme ends and the number in the middle being the most likely to be rolled. I have no idea how you worked the maths out that increasing your accuracy (And thus shifting the leading end of the bell curve to the right) will make lower rolls more likely.

**GoDGiVeR**

Pylat wrote:

If I remember right, apparently your roll will range from 1 to your accuracy on either end of the bell curve. With 1 and your accuracy on the extreme ends and the number in the middle being the most likely to be rolled. I have no idea how you worked the maths out that increasing your accuracy (And thus shifting the leading end of the bell curve to the right) will make lower rolls more likely.

If you have an accuracy of 150pts, the minimum is (always) 1 and 150pts is your maximum on your roll, 75pt being the most propable roll (median). Because the only way to influence the gaussian curve is by increasing the right maxima, I've always wanted to ask: Can we get a chance to influence the curve more? ( minimum shifts, median shifts, etc.)

**NeoExcidious** · 10/21/2008 13:49:07

GoDGiVeR wrote:

Pylat wrote:
If I remember right, apparently your roll will range from 1 to your accuracy on either end of the bell curve. With 1 and your accuracy on the extreme ends and the number in the middle being the most likely to be rolled. I have no idea how you worked the maths out that increasing your accuracy (And thus shifting the leading end of the bell curve to the right) will make lower rolls more likely.

If you have an accuracy of 150pts, the minimum is (always) 1 and 150pts is your maximum on your roll, 75pt being the most propable roll (median). Because the only way to influence the gaussian curve is by increasing the right maxima, I've always wanted to ask: Can we get a chance to influence the curve more? ( minimum shifts, median shifts, etc.)

How exactly do you imagine the description for the bonuses you're talking about be? Also, if it's under a gaussian curve form it is so that it applies a random effect thus making the gameplay being affected by "luck" (you could get high rolls or low rolls).This is why you can sometime win a duel and then lose the duel with unchanged attributes on either side, just because you had a different roll, or bad luck if you want. Besides the fact that i can't imagine an apparel item have a i.e. Minimum Accuracy Roll Bonus (2%) - not to mention the complications that might occur from making new bonuses, i don't think they'd wanna change the gameplay to give you control over hazard , if you understand what i mean.

**GoDGiVeR**

NeoExcidious wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:
Pylat wrote:
If I remember right, apparently your roll will range from 1 to your accuracy on either end of the bell curve. With 1 and your accuracy on the extreme ends and the number in the middle being the most likely to be rolled. I have no idea how you worked the maths out that increasing your accuracy (And thus shifting the leading end of the bell curve to the right) will make lower rolls more likely.

If you have an accuracy of 150pts, the minimum is (always) 1 and 150pts is your maximum on your roll, 75pt being the most propable roll (median). Because the only way to influence the gaussian curve is by increasing the right maxima, I've always wanted to ask: Can we get a chance to influence the curve more? ( minimum shifts, median shifts, etc.)

How exactly do you imagine the description for the bonuses you're talking about be? Also, if it's under a gaussian curve form it is so that it applies a random effect thus making the gameplay being affected by "luck" (you could get high rolls or low rolls).This is why you can sometime win a duel and then lose the duel with unchanged attributes on either side, just because you had a different roll, or bad luck if you want. Besides the fact that i can't imagine an apparel item have a i.e. Minimum Accuracy Roll Bonus (2%) - not to mention the complications that might occur from making new bonuses, i don't think they'd wanna change the gameplay to give you control over hazard , if you understand what i mean.

CR1 was complete control over your rolls, CR2 is the opposite. You can only affect the maximum roll, anything else is "random", "luck". The only thing that lets you win more often is knowledge about the abilities, tactics, clothing and behaviour of opponents (the "real" skill).

Also: Bonuses do not effect the roll directly, they affect the Maximum (possible roll). If I wanted to influence my minimum possible rolls, it would be with pts and boni ("Minimum Accuracy", "Minimum Accuracy Bonus", not "Minimum Accuracy Roll Bonus", because as 9mm told me recently, rolls are absolute, the unchangeable end result). Adding those pts and boni into the roll calculation isn't much of a work, adding all the boni and pts correctly to all the trees and styles (and hopefully balanced at that) is the real work (which is probably why -still- nobody has added thrown def %). To change the median is a tad more difficult to implement I guess, though.

Giving control to e.g. the minimum is IMO a large improvement in gameplay by adding another dimension to consider by the players (higher chance for high rolls (but with higher chance to fail since it expands the curve) or higher chance for average rolls (more secure)). Right now the system is too random (exceptions *cough thrown def* confirm the rule).

AnXieTy

CR2 = Complete crap, thats all anyone needs to know.

The Leo

GoDGiVeR wrote:

NeoExcidious wrote:
GoDGiVeR wrote:
Pylat wrote:
If I remember right, apparently your roll will range from 1 to your accuracy on either end of the bell curve. With 1 and your accuracy on the extreme ends and the number in the middle being the most likely to be rolled. I have no idea how you worked the maths out that increasing your accuracy (And thus shifting the leading end of the bell curve to the right) will make lower rolls more likely.

If you have an accuracy of 150pts, the minimum is (always) 1 and 150pts is your maximum on your roll, 75pt being the most propable roll (median). Because the only way to influence the gaussian curve is by increasing the right maxima, I've always wanted to ask: Can we get a chance to influence the curve more? ( minimum shifts, median shifts, etc.)

How exactly do you imagine the description for the bonuses you're talking about be? Also, if it's under a gaussian curve form it is so that it applies a random effect thus making the gameplay being affected by "luck" (you could get high rolls or low rolls).This is why you can sometime win a duel and then lose the duel with unchanged attributes on either side, just because you had a different roll, or bad luck if you want. Besides the fact that i can't imagine an apparel item have a i.e. Minimum Accuracy Roll Bonus (2%) - not to mention the complications that might occur from making new bonuses, i don't think they'd wanna change the gameplay to give you control over hazard , if you understand what i mean.

CR1 was complete control over your rolls, CR2 is the opposite. You can only affect the maximum roll, anything else is "random", "luck". The only thing that lets you win more often is knowledge about the abilities, tactics, clothing and behaviour of opponents (the "real" skill).

Also: Bonuses do not effect the roll directly, they affect the Maximum (possible roll). If I wanted to influence my minimum possible rolls, it would be with pts and boni ("Minimum Accuracy", "Minimum Accuracy Bonus", not "Minimum Accuracy Roll Bonus", because as 9mm told me recently, rolls are absolute, the unchangeable end result). Adding those pts and boni into the roll calculation isn't much of a work, adding all the boni and pts correctly to all the trees and styles (and hopefully balanced at that) is the real work (which is probably why -still- nobody has added thrown def %). To change the median is a tad more difficult to implement I guess, though.

Giving control to e.g. the minimum is IMO a large improvement in gameplay by adding another dimension to consider by the players (higher chance for high rolls (but with higher chance to fail since it expands the curve) or higher chance for average rolls (more secure)). Right now the system is too random (exceptions *cough thrown def* confirm the rule).

This.

**monkeymanx8**

GoDGiVeR wrote:

just look at Thrown Defense. Due to lack of Throw Def %, the only thing you can do against their accuracy is spam abilities against them in IL or have powerless/confuse/stun abs OoIL.

Is Thrown Defense (still) broken?