Philosopher's Corner

**RemagDiv**

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Since the philosophy of the Matrix can only be told so much, here's a thread for all types of philosophy, that can be about both the Matrix or anything in general for our more thinking inclined community members. Some consider philosophy a waste of time, others believe it's the gateway to understanding the human mind and purpose. It's true, philosophy can be quite daunting and most people do not understand anything that comes out of the mouth of prominant philosopher's of the past. However, what they say, still holds true today and perhaps in the future, so they must be doing something right.

I'll start off with a concept about simulation, reality, and in turn relating to the Matrix paradox. It deals with Nick Bostrom's "Ancestor Simulation" theory. In order for his argument to work, at least one of the following three factors must be true:

The human species will most likely become extinct before reaching a "posthuman" stage.
A posthuman stage would most likely not develop something like an ancestor simulation.
We are most certainly living in some type of simulation.

If option 1 was true, then the argument is irrelevant, because we would become extinct before we reach a posthuman era, be it by biological and nuclear warfare (which is becoming much more of a concern as the years pass) or even a nanotechnological disater in the future.

If option 2 was true, then we are not living in a simulation, however, currently, we always have a fascination of the past. Imagine, if we had the technological power to run a simulation during the age of the Renaissance, we most certainly would just to experience the time, the people, and the way of life. We would know it's a simulation, however the people inside the simulation are just advanced software, however they believe they are biological flesh living in their time period. On the flip side, posthuman civilizations might come up with laws to prevent ancestor simulation on terms of ethical behavior, however, has ethical decisions ever stopped decisions in the past? Unless the ethical and moral value of posthumans far exceeds ours, then we can assume that they will create simulations from the past, either as national studies on human behavior, or even for personal use of a college student studying the life of a 21st century human being in the comfort of his own home.

Thus, if option 1 and 2 can be concluded, then most certainly option 3 might be true. Realize that ancestor simulations would be running on a very broad scale, covering many timelines of our past, and most likely many ancestor simulations will be running at the same time. Scientists, all the way down to a simple student could be running this simulations, and in turn trillions of simulated individuals would be created for this simulations, oblivious that they are only software in a simulation.

Now, here's what will really bake your noodle. It's still possible for an ancestor simulation to progress technogically on their own, unlike the stable year of 1999 in the Matrix. Ancestor simulations could very well develop into posthumans themsevles, and create a simulation that they can study as well, the argument of a simulation simulating their own ancestor simulations, so it can really get messy at this point, and all terms of reality become extinct.

Sound crazy, yes? But if you think about it, it's not really far off. And the scary part is we will never know. Although, it's a much better turnout then being a slave to AI in order to power their civilization. Instead, we have been created out of sotfware as part of a scientist's research project, or perhaps we're living in just a "me-simulation" for a posthuman teenage girl's science project. At least it's better off than the Matrix,

**ManicV**

"To be philosophy's slave is to be free." -Seneca

RemagDiv wrote:

At least it's better off than the Matrix,

Is it really? In the matrix, we are presented with a choice of whether or not we want to be free. We have substance outside of the matrix. We exist outside of the simulation, and we are given the choice between the two.

With the theory of the ancestor simulation, we are just software. We, meaning our flesh and blood selves, do not exist outside of the simulation. In the context of the matrix, there is a "hardware" (using the term loosely here) mind controlling the software. This is not the case with the ancestor simulation. It is only our software-selves.

It's been said that when given the choice of existing or not existing, the majority, if not the entirety, of people will choose to exist. In the context of the matrix, we exist both in the real and in the simulation. The ancestor simulation does not offer this. This means that we are not truly ourselves in the ancestor simulation. We are only the result of what a programmer thinks we might have been like. The creator of the simulation cannot truly and accurately recreate a dead civilization unless the creator had experienced the civilization first-hand.

I think in this regard, the matrix is preferable to the ancestor simulation. I, meaning flesh and blood and mind, would rather exist than not.

Although, I suppose if I didn't exist, I wouldn't possess the capacity to care about not existing. Even so, that's not to say that I'm curious about it. SMILEY

My thoughts are building up too quickly to keep up with my typing so I'll have to come back to this later. But I want to thank you for starting this thread, Remag. I'm writing an essay that I plan to post some time in the coming months and this thread has helped break down a bit of my writer's block.

/dap

**RemagDiv**

Those are some very good points, and to an extent I wholeheartedly agree with you. I believe that it's a better outcome for humanity as a whole if the ancestor simulation was true, instead if the Matrix scenario was true.

Like you said, in the Matrix, we're given a choice to exist, which is better then never existing at all in the ancestor simulation, but as a whole, if the ancestor simulation is true, then there is 1 reality that began it, and thus they survived to a posthuman era, and the human species is still the inhabitants of the Earth, unlike the Matrix where the entire human civilization has been bonded into a jail.

As for this thread, I look forward to asking more questions and gaining more insight. I look forward to reading your essay.

**RemagDiv**

Please, anyone can comment on their thoughts or even ask their own questions and theories, this wasn't meant for me to state a theory, but moreso an interactive thread.

**ManicV**

Bumping this in the hope that others will reply with their own interpretations.

Hint hint. SMILEY

**RemagDiv**

Where's that essay? SMILEY