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Nvidia Geforce 8xxx series card issues on WinXP (Indoor performace issue)
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Code Breaker

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Other other thread was locked as stated by the Mod so I am starting a new one

Dont post here unless you have something constructive to add to the discussion or it will simply be moved out of the topic.

The up shot here is Since the release of the Nvidia Geforce 8xxx series of video cards Matrix has experienced the persistant problem with Indoor performace in the extreme.

After testing by Rarebit and myself we came to the conclusion that when an object (door, npc, ect) comes into view while indoors the 8xxx series cards have issues rendering it and create a severe drop in performance while moving indoors.

This issue is only slightly offset if you use Vista with the 8xxx card. And as another thread states Vista has its own bag of issues with Matrix Online.

Rumor: It was reported the forum user, Marias, that some relief for Vista users may be in the works.

Status of issue: The remaining devs assigned to the project lack the necessary familiarity with the rendering engine to simply fix the problem. And it should be noted that no one outside of the current devs at SOE even knows anything about the code or engine design for MxO.

We have contacted Nvidia and Asked them to look into the problem as it does not occur with any later generations hardware. They have stated that the issue is on their list to investigate. Where on this list and how many issues are ahead of us is not known.

ATI Cards: There is some conflicting reports that the new HD series ATI cards are experiencing this problem also. This is being looked into at this time.

If there is anything to Update the community with we will.


Message edited by 9mmfu on 02/14/2008 15:39:38.



Vindicator

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Yeah, I have this problem. It's near impossible to do missions so levelling is out of the question. The majority of the live events have occurances indoors, which again, is nearly impossible to stand with about 3 fps. The only things you're able to do are the White Hallways (which for being indoors, surprising don't have any problems) constructs, and simply just standing outdoors. All I can say is I hope this is fixed as soon as possible, because it's ridiculous trying to play a game with 3 fps whenever I try to go indoors.



Code Breaker

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Ballak wrote:
Yeah, I have this problem. It's near impossible to do missions so levelling is out of the question. The majority of the live events have occurances indoors, which again, is nearly impossible to stand with about 3 fps. The only things you're able to do are the White Hallways (which for being indoors, surprising don't have any problems) constructs, and simply just standing outdoors. All I can say is I hope this is fixed as soon as possible, because it's ridiculous trying to play a game with 3 fps whenever I try to go indoors.
When you say White Hallways are you refering to the Elite Commando areas or the actual Org Areas?



Development

Joined: Dec 2, 2005
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The white hallways don't have any visible game objects in them, so the problem (which crops up with these cards under Windows XP when they try to render game objects in interiors) wouldn't come up there. All the doors and things you see in the halls are static props or world geometry, not game objects.

EDIT: Oh, that mainly applies to the new ones in International, with the commandos. The ones you use to get to the org areas do have some actual Door objects in them, which may have the slowdown issue (hitching as they enter the field of view).



Message edited by Rarebit on 02/14/2008 19:17:45.



Vindicator

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9mmfu wrote:
Ballak wrote:
Yeah, I have this problem. It's near impossible to do missions so levelling is out of the question. The majority of the live events have occurances indoors, which again, is nearly impossible to stand with about 3 fps. The only things you're able to do are the White Hallways (which for being indoors, surprising don't have any problems) constructs, and simply just standing outdoors. All I can say is I hope this is fixed as soon as possible, because it's ridiculous trying to play a game with 3 fps whenever I try to go indoors.
When you say White Hallways are you refering to the Elite Commando areas or the actual Org Areas?
Both, and yeah probably because what Rarebit said.



Transcendent

Joined: Dec 4, 2005
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9mmfu, you mention that an object coming into view may be the most likely cause.  And it reminded me of something...

Unlike textures, doors, NPCs & etc. perform actions.  In other words, they move and animate in some way.  Given what I've been reading lately, GPUs generally handle things like this, correct?

I'm thinking about how customers online who have PhysX processors have indicated that they are surprised to see increases in performance and framerate in games that are not specifically written for PhysX hardware--that it's almost as if the software knows what can be offloaded from the GPU to the PPU.

Example testimonials here

Any possibility the problem revolves around asking these objects to perform actions...which in turn gets poorly handled by the nVidia GPU?  I'm not even pointing the finger at nVidia on this one--maybe the rendering engine (is that Monolith's creation?) just asks nVidia to do something in a weird way (example of such behavior with HL2)

Do we have anybody here with a PhysX card and an 8X00 video card who can test it?

One possibly-irrelevant question:  do we have any idea if SLi makes a difference?  For instance, if someone has an 8800GT and gets 4fps indoors....does it go up to 6 or 8 with two 8800GTs in SLi?




Jacked Out

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I'm afraid the SLi idea doesn't work, I know a player who has this kind of rig and it doesn't work for him either.

I have a PhysX 8600 and would be glad to try anything, but currently I am running Vista because I'd rather have minor gfx issues than eye-bleedingly low frame rates.

I've also had a look and fiddled with the NVidia control panel graphics game profile things, and can't seem to find anything to improve the lag in there either.

9mmfu wrote:

Status of issue: The remaining devs assigned to the project lack the necessary familiarity with the rendering engine to simply fix the problem. And it should be noted that no one outside of the current devs at SOE even knows anything about the code or engine design for MxO.



I'm not having a go at 9mmfu or Rarebit or anyone on the MxO team, but for a multi-billion pound/dollar company that's pretty f****** pathetic. I mean, we pay for a reason, to keep the fat pigs on the board rich, the least they could do is actually invest a little bit so we have someone who knows the d*mn game. It's almost like they went "Ooohh we can get even MORE money if we buy up MxO off Monolith, they really need it!" then signed the deal, took 2 steps out of the building and went "D*mn, we forgot to ask them how to work this thing...Oh well, we still have suckers subscribing so let's just roll with it and not tell anyone we know sod all about the game."

I'm sorry it just infuriates me that stupid stuff like this happens because the MxO team hasn't got enough resources and staff to work on it all. Why are we getting such little treatment over the rest? EQ et al. is a horrible game, so is SWG (from what I've heard) yet they still get the cash. /endrant

Message edited by AlphaCoder on 02/14/2008 18:08:58.


Transcendent

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The problem there is that MxO is the only game ever made on this specific engine. There are only a very very select few games that have a similar one from Monolith. So, you could probably have almost any of the other SOE employees that work on graphical engines and they probably couldn't fix it. They might be able to find the problem, but only after a huge chunk of time that would take away from their own game. And even then, they probably couldn't find a solution to it. The only way to fix this from SOE's side now, unless I'm mistaken, would be to hire on whoever made the original graphic engine. And that/those person/people is probably on another game now.



Femme Fatale

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Question. Can devs spawn specific objects, if so, would a dev be willing to take an hour or so to spawn specific objects with players indoors in a testing area to see what could cause it? I personally think it's those chairs, or possibly bluepills, but then the outside bluepills would affect us too, unless they're coded different, as we all can see them.



Ascendent Logic

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Just to cover all bases, has anyone from SOE contacted Monolith? I know MXO has a unique game engine but it could be possible some of those engineers might still be with Monolith and could possibly provide some much needed insight into fixing this problem.



Vindicator

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My notes:

*Lag issue affects the entire XP line. By this I mean this also affects 64-bit versions of XP. Have not tried with 2000 or 2003. 2003 will be as soon as I find my spare HDD

*No lag experienced with my HIS ATI 3850 (256mb) DX10.1 Series cards.  I am willing to temporarily part with this and send to the devs if it would help.

*Not all indoor areas are affected. Office or "clean" buildings have the highest lag. Rundown buildings like Zion outpost or Moriah Projects may lag for a moment while items are loading, but then the lag is gone. I've seen rundown buildings with more random prop stuff than the office, and there was no lag to be found. So if you can grind in Moriah, I recommend it.  The really really *CENSORED* buildings with holes in the walls are the exception.  They lag bad.  This does make me lean toward lighting, where the office buildings and the really *CENSORED* buildings with holes in the walls are bright, and they both lag, where the Moriah projects housing is a bit dimmer, yet doesn't really lag.

*Green codeview mode. On my machine with it running I have no indoor lag in any area that I know to experience it in. I have even grinded with it set to an infinite time setting and even though it was annoying, it worked great.

**Regarding the office building, the rooms with windows have the least lag. (duh)

Those are my notes on the issue as updated on Feb 14, 10:07pm Pacific.

Message edited by LtCmdr_Tsusai on 02/14/2008 22:05:51.


Vindicator

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Are you sure about  ATI...Cause i'm about to get ATI 3870x2 and i don't want to have the same problems!!!


TonyJaa



Code Breaker

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Roukan wrote:
Question. Can devs spawn specific objects, if so, would a dev be willing to take an hour or so to spawn specific objects with players indoors in a testing area to see what could cause it? I personally think it's those chairs, or possibly bluepills, but then the outside bluepills would affect us too, unless they're coded different, as we all can see them.

Rarebit and I did extensive testing by turning off various aspects of the game rending components and found that If a game object came into view or needed to be loaded for whatever reason (coming into view would be one of these) the client's performance was seriously effected.

However outside these same objects have no significant effect on the game client's performance.




Femme Fatale

Joined: Aug 22, 2005
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The buildings around Mara District use to give me tons of lag but now I get next to none, but any other district is lag fest.

EDIT: What it seems to me is if I get a mission in an Office building type I get lots of lag, but if its in like an apartment I seem to do fine.

Message edited by Kybutra on 02/15/2008 08:06:16.



Vindicator

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Kybutra wrote:
The buildings around Mara District use to give me tons of lag but now I get next to none, but any other district is lag fest.

EDIT: What it seems to me is if I get a mission in an Office building type I get lots of lag, but if its in like an apartment I seem to do fine.
Confirmed on my end.

 
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