Switching tactics is an exploit

**Sphairo** · 09/17/2007 12:37:02

Post by 9mmfu here;

It some times amazes me that simply because a dev doesn't put their stamp of disapproval on something before a player will go hrmm "that doesn't seem right perhaps I shouldn't do it"...

Anyways switching tactics in the same round to gain the benefit of both in the given round is indeed a bug and an exploit.

So you have been warned.

My concern is: if it in fact deemed an exploit, how are we supposed to tell if they are or aren't doing so? We can't see what tactics the player is using. There'll be an uproar of people making CCR tickets if they get beat in PVP, and devs will be taking action off of hearsay evidance.

Thoughts??

Delicho

My thoughts are included in the linked thread.

**exsuscito**

Short of the dev's providing a comprehensive list of all possible damage outputs on speed and power, and for all abilities, there's absolutely no way to know who's using what tactic at any given moment.

Because of this, switching tactics will remain an issue for as long as CR2 lives. The only way to counter it is to make sure your opponent doesn't win many rounds.

Switching to 'Power' with every won round still doesn't guarantee a win, so this ranks way behind stacking for now.

The Leo

I am just gonna copy what I said from another thread:

Just to throw in my $info... as far as I remember in CR1 no matter what tactic you used an ability would do the same damage. Can't it be made so Abilities do a kind of base damage of the style used... like let's say an universal tactic that all abilities use but that you can't manually use? An idea.

I also have a bit of info how the states problem can be fixed. You know how when using misdirect punch, or sky high (or someone else on you) the downgrade starts before the damage and the animtion or in worst cases simultaneously. Can't this be done with normal tactics so they work in the same way? Maybe even make them blinking like abilities, and every ability for itself (with a base damage unexploitable)?

However atm I don't think any1 deserves to be banned over this or suspended. This almost CANNOT be avoided as this is the way the IL system works now. If you want to prove me wrong make a video of how u switch tactics without making the "wrong" state and using abs on the tactics you started them on.

**Sphairo**

The Leo wrote:

I am just gonna copy what I said from another thread:

Just to throw in my $info... as far as I remember in CR1 no matter what tactic you used an ability would do the same damage. Can't it be made so Abilities do a kind of base damage of the style used... like let's say an universal tactic that all abilities use but that you can't manually use? An idea.

I also have a bit of info how the states problem can be fixed. You know how when using misdirect punch, or sky high (or someone else on you) the downgrade starts before the damage and the animtion or in worst cases simultaneously. Can't this be done with normal tactics so they work in the same way? Maybe even make them blinking like abilities, and every ability for itself (with a base damage unexploitable)?

However atm I don't think any1 deserves to be banned over this or suspended. This almost CANNOT be avoided as this is the way the IL system works now. If you want to prove me wrong make a video of how u switch tactics without making the "wrong" state and using abs on the tactics you started them on.

The tactics challenge each other anyway, that's what makes them tactics swim and the abs use acc + dev vs acc + def = wouldnt make sense with the tactics o.O
Does that make any sense?
tictacs
:P

The Leo · 09/17/2007 13:32:25

Sphairo wrote:

The Leo wrote:
I am just gonna copy what I said from another thread:

Just to throw in my $info... as far as I remember in CR1 no matter what tactic you used an ability would do the same damage. Can't it be made so Abilities do a kind of base damage of the style used... like let's say an universal tactic that all abilities use but that you can't manually use? An idea.

I also have a bit of info how the states problem can be fixed. You know how when using misdirect punch, or sky high (or someone else on you) the downgrade starts before the damage and the animtion or in worst cases simultaneously. Can't this be done with normal tactics so they work in the same way? Maybe even make them blinking like abilities, and every ability for itself (with a base damage unexploitable)?

However atm I don't think any1 deserves to be banned over this or suspended. This almost CANNOT be avoided as this is the way the IL system works now. If you want to prove me wrong make a video of how u switch tactics without making the "wrong" state and using abs on the tactics you started them on.
The tactics challenge each other anyway, that's what makes them tactics swim and the abs use acc + dev vs acc + def = wouldnt make sense with the tactics o.O
Does that make any sense?
tictacs
" />

Yes but they can be made work in the way they do now, with parts the code (developer stuff) of the abilities. Besides tactics didn't play a role while using abilities in CR1. No matter which tactic you previously used the ability had a base accuracy (or a higher one depending on which ability). What I mean is simple: Lets say I use speed. My speed tactic blinks like the abilities and is qued for the next round (or maybe we just leave it as it is). It has X chance (30% if I am not misstaken) of daze which will apply in the middle of the animation as debuffs do for abilities (removes states exploit). When it goes trough that doesn't necessarily mean I don't get hit by the opponents tactic (we still have hit- hit or miss -miss). After that I que an ability which will work in the same way as uptil not except that it automatically changes you to an universal tactic OR it doesn't take in account the bonuses/negatives of the tactic you use (fixes damage exploit and tactic switching).

If this is doable make me a dev NOW!!!!

**Weskie**

9mm! Okay, this is going to sound really dumb. Because i don't have a flying clue about how they code the combat system.

But, however. Is there any way to "lock" the tactics? As in power, speed, grab, ect.
So, just say I'm on grab tactic, and about to use Extreme Falling Kick. Is there any way grab could "lock" it's self? When i hit
to use that Ability? So, I'd be on grab tactic as soon as i hit Extreme Falling Kick, my tactics lock them selfs, so i can't changed.
Then they un-lock when that Ability has gone through.

**9mmfu**

SniperWolf101 wrote:

9mm! Okay, this is going to sound really dumb. Because i don't have a flying clue about how they code the combat system.

But, however. Is there any way to "lock" the tactics? As in power, speed, grab, ect.
So, just say I'm on grab tactic, and about to use Extreme Falling Kick. Is there any way grab could "lock" it's self? When i hit
to use that Ability? So, I'd be on grab tactic as soon as i hit Extreme Falling Kick, my tactics lock them selfs, so i can't changed.
Then they un-lock when that Ability has gone through.

The short answer is probably but that isn't desired because of the speed with which the server runs through your combat a player would almost never click in the small window of opportunity between the end of one round and the beginning of the next to change tactics which would mean in effect you would be stuck in a tactic you started interlock with.

In effect only the tactic you have at the start of an interlock round should apply to that round. This isn't happening which is why its a bug.

**Yasamuu**

It's kinda sad to say, but, since it's become so "widely accepted" accross the game. Leaving it how it is seems like an equally viable option aswell.

**Kemy**

Yasamuu1 wrote:

It's kinda sad to say, but, since it's become so "widely accepted" accross the game. Leaving it how it is seems like an equally viable option aswell.

Leave it. I never knew it was an exploit and I've been telling everyone how to do it, new and old players alike.

**PS10N**

How about this: fix the bug, close the exploit hole, make it so all tactics go dark for the rest of the round after you've hit the first one, then they all light up again at the start of the next round. The whole philosophy of "it's a bug and we're not going to fix it so please don't exploit it" isn't realistic and flies in the face of the whole idea of debugging the game to improve it.

**Bayamos**

If I did /logstart when I pvp'ed I'd be hard-pressed to find someone whose attacks didn't seem like they were all on power.

No-one wants to come on these forums and appear to be supporting exploiting, as that's what it's been labeled now, but if it's there, people will use it. And pretty much everyone does.

**Ballak**

It's sort of how I feel about calling Switching Combat Tactics an exploit now.

**GypsyJuggler**

It should be possible to fix this by making your active ability selection only update at the beginning of a round. So you are free to hit tactics buttons as often as you like during a round but once a new round starts the only tactic that affects that round is the one you had selected at the beginning. The problem occurs because the active ability is referred to at different points during a round and it can be changed between those points.
At the moment, while technically an exploit, this bug is almost unavoidable. Some people do it on purpose, some by accident unknowingly. The appropriate stance is to classify it as a bug but not enforce any punishments on those who use it.

**Paige6**

GypsyJuggler wrote:

It should be possible to fix this by making your active ability selection only update at the beginning of a round. So you are free to hit tactics buttons as often as you like during a round but once a new round starts the only tactic that affects that round is the one you had selected at the beginning.

I guess I still don't understand why tactics switching can't be queued up like firing off abilities is. I mean if I pick Speed, and the round is played out, but right in the middle I pick Power...then Power should be "on deck" and be applied right before the next round begins (after damage is calculated out from the previous round of course).