[9.2.3] Now he's mad - Syntax - 1/24/08

**Neoteny**

I'm afraid that just doesn't work for me anymore. The Machines think that the Matrix is only their domain? Let this be their problem. I'm not going to let it come to the point where Niobe's telling us to collaborate with them to take him down somehow. It's not practical for us when after we succeed, they'll just be at our door ripping our our throats again.

Escaped

What happened to the whole event? The meeting afterwards was interrupted by agents and the zionites were brought outside and I combated Niobe. Fist time to fully participate in an event and I get shorted on the credits lol.

Escaped

What happened to the whole event? The meeting afterwards was interrupted by agents and the zionites were brought outside and I combated Niobe. Fist time to fully participate in an event and I get shorted on the credits lol.

[IMG]http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/baseballcrwf755/screenshot_214.jpg[/IMG]

Escaped

Oh finally figure out how to put an image on. Here goes,

**Procurator**

Zionites aren't even supposed to be in the Matrix, remember? But while they're here, they may as well do the best they can to shut the Intruder up. So I appreciate Harkee's statement.

However, protecting the Bluepills does not involve annoying the living hell out of him, Colt. *Sighs.*

**Coro**

((Coroebus: I'm a little teapot, short and stout... ))

Isn't it rather hypocrytical to tolerate New Zion's assistance, but disapprove of their presence in the first place? It's like a country relying on immigrant workers but refusing to give them legitimate residency.

We are all here to further the interests of the Human Race, we simply differ in our views as to how the future of our kind is best served. What is most frustrating is that we all continue to focus on our differences, rather than concentrate on our similarities: a little tolerence might go a long way...

Croesis · 01/26/2008 16:37:16

Neoteny wrote:

I'm afraid that just doesn't work for me anymore. The Machines think that the Matrix is only their domain? Let this be their problem. I'm not going to let it come to the point where Niobe's telling us to collaborate with them to take him down somehow. It's not practical for us when after we succeed, they'll just be at our door ripping our our throats again.

I see... instead of doing something to prevent the destabilisation of the thing that keeps millions of bluepills alive, you want to concentrate on fighting and hurting the Machines adding more to the risk to the bluepills, you know... the Human race? I'm please that Harkee has some sense about this.
If Niobe came to the decision that collaboration with the Machines to combat the risk is necessary... don't you think that that may be a step toward ending the war? It's been done before by one man. Now noone has his powers but if all of Zion work toward it, I'm certain that another truce can be formed.
Surely you don't think you can defeat the problem with the Intruder and defeat the Machines and keep all of the innocent bluepills alive? The only way this war is going to end is either another truce, the eventual decimation of Zionite operatives or the defeat of the Machines with massive bluepill casualties. I see that you are leaning toward the last option.

**Mindsweep**

Procurator wrote:

Zionites aren't even supposed to be in the Matrix, remember? But while they're here, they may as well do the best they can to shut the Intruder up. So I appreciate Harkee's statement.

However, protecting the Bluepills does not involve annoying the living hell out of him, Colt. *Sighs.*

You seem to forget who put us there in the Matrix in the first place.....

**MxO_Neopill** · 01/26/2008 20:42:23

This War will not be won by Violence and Vengeance alone, Niobe has a point in wanting to further communications between New Zion and the Intruder, as his distractions seem to be worsening this conflict between Man, machine and Exile. And the fact that we do not yet fully understand his intentions should hasten our efforts.

But this statment alone is what strikes me with concern.

"Niobe : Let's hope he *doesn't* know about her." Referring to the Oracle.

It's a shame we didn't find him. But hopefully that Disk that Distephano found can help us out.

Zion fought hard and with passion this day. It was an honor to participate.

Pill

**Neoteny**

Vinia wrote:

Neoteny wrote:
I'm afraid that just doesn't work for me anymore. The Machines think that the Matrix is only their domain? Let this be their problem. I'm not going to let it come to the point where Niobe's telling us to collaborate with them to take him down somehow. It's not practical for us when after we succeed, they'll just be at our door ripping our our throats again.
I see... instead of doing something to prevent the destabilisation of the thing that keeps millions of bluepills alive, you want to concentrate on fighting and hurting the Machines adding more to the risk to the bluepills, you know... the Human race? I'm please that Harkee has some sense about this.
If Niobe came to the decision that collaboration with the Machines to combat the risk is necessary... don't you think that that may be a step toward ending the war? It's been done before by one man. Now noone has his powers but if all of Zion work toward it, I'm certain that another truce can be formed.
Surely you don't think you can defeat the problem with the Intruder and defeat the Machines and keep all of the innocent bluepills alive? The only way this war is going to end is either another truce, the eventual decimation of Zionite operatives or the defeat of the Machines with massive bluepill casualties. I see that you are leaning toward the last option.

Now you've got me all confused. I was under the impression that Command, along with Niobe, Ghost, and the rest of our leaders, were the great satan and that in order to achieve peace we had to rebel at any corner? I thought the Machines said that we were at war; that they didn't want us here. You're telling me that I should follow my chain of command and violate yours? My God, it's almost as if you've got common sense!

But in all honesty and seriousness, I realized a long time ago that the war will end in either one of two ways: with peace, or with a victory. I haven't seen the opportunity for a Truce (well, I suppose I shouldn't even say Truce, I don't want a goddamn Truce - the last one only lead to war, mistrust, and deceit, and I'll have no further false peaces in my time) and so I've been pushing for victory, unlikely though it is.

As it stands, there is no agreement that we'd be granted peace upon termination of the so-called "Intruder," so why should I have any illusions that it might be restored at such a point? The Machines want our help? They can promise us peace and make an agreement that both sides have a part in deciding. Until then, I see no reason to protect the System that fuels their war-machine.

It's not that I want to see bluepills die - I'd love to save them all, I'd love it if they'd all see the truth, I'd love it if they could all even continue to live their lives as they do without powering the Machine, but they cannot. If it's a decision between us and them, I choose us. But I'll be damned if I won't try to save as many as I can before and when the System goes down. They're just victims of circumstance, after all.

**Asa**

Unsurprisingly, Neoteny's the only one I see talking any sense.

Let the Intruder tear this place apart. Works for me.

**Procurator**

Mindsweep wrote:

You seem to forget who put us there in the Matrix in the first place.....

H'mm? What's that got to do with anything? The Machines dictate who is and who isn't allowed in the Matrix. You have no inherent right to enter it just because you were born into it. It's not your domain anymore now that you've left.

Again, I'm arguing about something that's been covered a thousand times before. Gargh!

Croesis

Neoteny wrote:

Now you've got me all confused. I was under the impression that Command, along with Niobe, Ghost, and the rest of our leaders, were the great satan and that in order to achieve peace we had to rebel at any corner? I thought the Machines said that we were at war; that they didn't want us here. You're telling me that I should follow my chain of command and violate yours? My God, it's almost as if you've got common sense!
But in all honesty and seriousness, I realized a long time ago that the war will end in either one of two ways: with peace, or with a victory. I haven't seen the opportunity for a Truce (well, I suppose I shouldn't even say Truce, I don't want a goddamn Truce - the last one only lead to war, mistrust, and deceit, and I'll have no further false peaces in my time) and so I've been pushing for victory, unlikely though it is.
As it stands, there is no agreement that we'd be granted peace upon termination of the so-called "Intruder," so why should I have any illusions that it might be restored at such a point? The Machines want our help? They can promise us peace and make an agreement that both sides have a part in deciding. Until then, I see no reason to protect the System that fuels their war-machine.
It's not that I want to see bluepills die - I'd love to save them all, I'd love it if they'd all see the truth, I'd love it if they could all even continue to live their lives as they do without powering the Machine, but they cannot. If it's a decision between us and them, I choose us. But I'll be damned if I won't try to save as many as I can before and when the System goes down. They're just victims of circumstance, after all.

How is a decision, made by the Zion leadership, to approach the Machines in order to offer help in return for a new treaty a violation of my chain of command? Any new treaty would have to be agreed by both sides. At first I thought it would have to be a number of Zion operatives who would need to violate their chain of command in order to broker a new truce or treaty. Now I see it might have to be the Zion leadership who will have to violate their operatives wishes to do it.
No, at this moment there is no agreement. That is what approach and negotiation is for, but if you can't see an opportunity to not only gain a truce leading to peace but to save the bluepills as well then you are blind. If the Machines were to approach Zion and offer a truce upon termination of the Intruder would you take it? I see not because although you said that will be the only time where you'd consider protecting the system, you still wish to disrupt the symbiotic relationship that the Human race has with the Machines.

**Mindsweep**

Procurator wrote:

Mindsweep wrote:
You seem to forget who put us there in the Matrix in the first place.....
H'mm? What's that got to do with anything? The Machines dictate who is and who isn't allowed in the Matrix. You have no inherent right to enter it just because you were born into it. It's not your domain anymore now that you've left.

Again, I'm arguing about something that's been covered a thousand times before. Gargh!

Yes it has been arguing a thousand times before Proc, but that does still not mean you are right! So as long as the matrix excist and you machines keep this war going on, we will have this argument. Not our domain??? We never claim it to be ours, we were forced against our own will to be a part of this system you claim to be yours. If you still believe, that we will follow the machines orders...then you are very wrong.

**Procurator**

Mindsweep wrote:

Yes it has been arguing a thousand times before Proc, but that does still not mean you are right! So as long as the matrix excist and you machines keep this war going on, we will have this argument. Not our domain??? We never claim it to be ours, we were forced against our own will to be a part of this system you claim to be yours. If you still believe, that we will follow the machines orders...then you are very wrong.

I'm not saying I'm right here. Nor am I saying you're right. My point is that the arguments reached unsatisfactory conclusions all times they've been had before, so there's no point starting it up again. We'll just cover the same points, make the same claims, and end up with nothing except a large gap where 'spare time' used to be.