Lucen wrote:

hellstomp3r wrote:

I highly doubt that this, Lucen, will be the lone mech waving a white flag when it all goes down.   Talk and hypothesis are irrelavent during wartime.

 

Welcome to the Third Renaissance.

 

 

Capt. Neopill - Zion

If tonight is any indication, we won't be the one's waving the white flag.  And take a look at the first communication from Niobe here.  She flat out admits Zion never had any intention of working toward peace.  Can you blame the machines for not trusting them?  Humanity, throughout our history has done very little besides prove how violent and untrustworthy we are.  Since the invention of AI, we have tried to wipe the machines off the face of the earth for nothing more than having more valuable currency than us, then spent 6 cycles of the Matrix trying to destroy them, and now when given a real chance at peace, we find Zion once again preparing to wage war.

The machines are the innocents here.  Every move they've made has been justified by human treachery.

Niobe thought it was best we be ready should something like this happen again.

If the Machines wanted peace, they wouldn't have let it happen again.

Building a city with defenses isn't a hostile action. Calling off the Truce and sending the Machine army after Zion is.

((The fact that you guys still do not understand how building a bunker full of defensive weapons can be viewed as a threat is disturbing.  I really hope that those arguing this point only believe this as an in character thing.  For those of you who actually pay attention in the world this very issue itself has the possiblity to leading to WWIII.  Turn on the news sometime and take a look at Iran and their nuclear issue and America and the missile defense shield and Russias response.  Russia responded by releasing the nuclear fuel to Iran which they were holding off from doing as a detterent to America))

It is all about detterents and security everyone.  It seems that you all are either naive or just confused with why the machines are upset.  Let me try to explain it for you.  The machines indeed could destroy Zion whenever they wanted to.  In fact Zion should be destroyed if Neo did not interfere.  The truce ended with the machines holding a gun to the head of the Zionites.  The machines were definitely threatened as well by the Program Smith, but Zion did not control that program and Zion was not on the verge of wiping out the machines.

If you go to your Zion archives and look at human history you will find that just 8 years before the current Matrix date of 1999 the Nation of Iraq was defeated by the United Nations mainly America.  Iraq's leaders brokered a truce with the rest of the world.  They were allowed to keep their leader and way of life.  They were not allowed to construct more weapons which would endanger the region.  They had a gun to their head at the time and the trigger was not pulled.  During this time of Peace or truce Iraq secretly built more weapons, buikt more palaces, scammed the oil for food program, and was taking pop shots at American forces in the no fly zones.  Iraq broke many resolutions which automatically causes a resumption of hostilities.  And it did ending with Iraq being totally destroyed.

I wish us humans would learn from history and not repeat our mistakes because this is oddly similar to what is happening today.  The truce ended with a gun pointed to Zions head.  Sentinels halted the attack and stayed on stand by outside the walls of Zion, just like the American forces did to Iraq.  Zion just like Iraq used that period of peace to rebuild its arsenal for "Defensive measures."  Now why would building a defensive city be a threat to the machines you ask?

The fact that redpills now know that they are 100% protected they have the freedom to do whatever they wish.  Whether that be stay with the truce, end the truce, attack the machines, attack the Matrix, attempt to go beyond waking 1% of the bluepills, etc...  There will be no consequences of their actions.  And since we know  Zions past and that they want to be on equal footing with the machines it is only logical that the machines would fear that mostly.  The last time humanity was on an equal footing with the machines they tried to commit genocide to the machines.  If you were a machine you would never and I mean ever allow for that to happen again.  Had Humans won the original war we would never ever allow the machines to be in a position where they can again launch an attack on us.  They cannot risk sitting there and hoping that humanity will go against its nature to be dominant.

Now this is what I don't understand  We have heard from Zionites and fake machinists condone Zion building a secret base for self defense.  If I was a Zionite I would be the loudest voice screaming about Zions right to self defense.  I would be on the front line sticking a middle finger to the machinists.  I would be like Locke and admit that we have been destroyed 6 times by the machines.  There is no way in hell we will let ourselves stay in a position where we can be destroyed again.  I would admit that hell yeah we built up a new city.  We believe that humans are slaves and that it is our duty as humans to free ourselves from bondage from the machine oppressors.  It is our duty to take back what is rightfully and enheritantly ours.  I would say we will no longer cower at the feet of the machines and beg them for our lives.  Our lives our in our hands not the hands of the machines and we will fight to the very last man, woman, and child for freedom.  I would argue that humans are not to be slaves and would rather be dead.  I would then slap all the other Zionites who are coming out here and playing this game of we just wanted to expand our city.  I would tell them not to be afraid to tell the truth just like Niobe and Rylet.  I would tell them to prepare for war and invite all of the humans from all the organizations who believe as we do that Machines are not our masters to come down and stand with us.  I would say that today is a day where we can actually defend ourselves from the machines.  Today we are able to do what we have never done in the past and that is survive.  I would say that humanity is not at threat to be wiped out because as long as machines need humans to survive they will maintain the Matrix.  I would argue that we fight for our survival, our autonomy, and our freedom.  I would be a better leader and Zionite than any of the ones arguing about this case right now.

After all that I would realize that we will no longer be able to enter the Matrix safely.  I would realize that just like in the past when there were men better than me leading a force 100Xs more affective than mine that I would lose.  I would realize that we just caused the deaths of everyone in Zion.  I would acknowledge that therr are only two options of what will occur.  Either we will be wiped out down here because the machines would eventually find away around our defenses, or they will bury us down here and we live out our days in freedom in new Zion never to see the surface, never to see the Matrix, and never to secure freedom for the 99% of humanity.  I would then still be satisfied because at least I am free.

If you are a Zionite at least have the balls to say that.  Stop dancing around the issue and trying to justify this as being the machines fault.  Admit you had an agenda and that agenda is coming to fruition after two years.  And if you don't know that this is a break of the truce then please go ask somebody or shut up.  Even Zion leadership new it would end the truce which is why they kept it a secret.  I guess since they were smart enough to know that, then that is why they are the leadership and left all you poor people out of the loop. 

I have just shown you that I do understand better than most of you the Zion side of things.  I am not one dimensional in thinking, but I am here to tell you that there is an alternative.  There is a way out for all of us.  The first step is to stop thinking about Zion and Zion alone.  Think about all sentient beings.  Think about saving everyone.  Think as Neo thought.  He did not just save Zion he saved everybody.  Join those of us who are and have been trully working for this and not just buying time as Niobe has said.  Join those Zionites, Merovingians, and machinists who believe as the Oracle said, "The only way to get there is together."  I am Captain Sattakan and I fight for humanity.

"I will still plant my apple tree whose shade I know I will never sit under" - MLK Jr.

Khepril wrote:

Niobe is simply informing you that for once they've done something to actively ensure their survival. I sat in on this meeting as I, like many others in E Pluribus Neo, were curious as to what the official Zion view was on all of this.

I'm quite impressed to say that for a lot of it, we're running along the same line of thoughts. By that, they were using the truce to prepare themselves.

Some have been complaining that all this pisses on Neo's memory, yet I disagree. The truce pissed over Neo's memory. Neo died for peace, the truce was a joke from day one. The Machines were content with it for only one reason, they thought that Zion wouldn't dare attempt to attack them. Break the truce and start the War all over again.

The reason the Machines broke the Truce is simple. A loss of control.

Look at them now, all their posturing and where is it getting them? No-where. Heck, they haven't managed to wipe out E Pluribus Neo, who were the "Terrorists of the System". Now they've got more to worry about.

To you Machines I say this; bring it on. You haven't killed us yet and you're not going to be able to now.

To our Zion brothers and sisters, I commend you all for keeping your cool. The important thing for you all now is not to give up, dig deep and stand together. That place you've built is a stroke of brilliance, now you have to defend it.

If you need anything from E Pluribus Neo, you know how to contact us.

Fight together, fight for your freedom.

Fight together blah blah blah, thats all well and good but you've said yourselves already somewhere 'We broke the truce' isn't that right?   So now your saying the machines broke it? Hmm...

spha x

((The fact that you guys still do not understand how building a bunker full of defensive weapons can be viewed as a threat is disturbing.  I really hope that those arguing this point only believe this as an in character thing.  For those of you who actually pay attention in the world this very issue itself has the possiblity to leading to WWIII.  Turn on the news sometime and take a look at Iran and their nuclear issue and America and the missile defense shield and Russias response.  Russia responded by releasing the nuclear fuel to Iran which they were holding off from doing as a detterent to America))

It is all about detterents and security everyone.  It seems that you all are either naive or just confused with why the machines are upset.  Let me try to explain it for you.  The machines indeed could destroy Zion whenever they wanted to.  In fact Zion should be destroyed if Neo did not interfere.  The truce ended with the machines holding a gun to the head of the Zionites.  The machines were definitely threatened as well by the Program Smith, but Zion did not control that program and Zion was not on the verge of wiping out the machines.

If you go to your Zion archives and look at human history you will find that just 8 years before the current Matrix date of 1999 the Nation of Iraq was defeated by the United Nations mainly America.  Iraq's leaders brokered a truce with the rest of the world.  They were allowed to keep their leader and way of life.  They were not allowed to construct more weapons which would endanger the region.  They had a gun to their head at the time and the trigger was not pulled.  During this time of Peace or truce Iraq secretly built more weapons, buikt more palaces, scammed the oil for food program, and was taking pop shots at American forces in the no fly zones.  Iraq broke many resolutions which automatically causes a resumption of hostilities.  And it did ending with Iraq being totally destroyed.

I wish us humans would learn from history and not repeat our mistakes because this is oddly similar to what is happening today.  The truce ended with a gun pointed to Zions head.  Sentinels halted the attack and stayed on stand by outside the walls of Zion, just like the American forces did to Iraq.  Zion just like Iraq used that period of peace to rebuild its arsenal for "Defensive measures."  Now why would building a defensive city be a threat to the machines you ask?

The fact that redpills now know that they are 100% protected they have the freedom to do whatever they wish.  Whether that be stay with the truce, end the truce, attack the machines, attack the Matrix, attempt to go beyond waking 1% of the bluepills, etc...  There will be no consequences of their actions.  And since we know  Zions past and that they want to be on equal footing with the machines it is only logical that the machines would fear that mostly.  The last time humanity was on an equal footing with the machines they tried to commit genocide to the machines.  If you were a machine you would never and I mean ever allow for that to happen again.  Had Humans won the original war we would never ever allow the machines to be in a position where they can again launch an attack on us.  They cannot risk sitting there and hoping that humanity will go against its nature to be dominant.

Yo' cuz. Tell them the whole story. In hindsight, Iraq did a bunch of things that big bad America and the UN didn't like, but when the US said "We think you have WMD's. Give em up now!" and they didn't have them, the US went in anyway, guns blazing on faulty intelligence and assumptions in an attempt to maintain control of an indirect threat and made the situation for both sides worse. Iraq isn't justified in what they did, and their leader was a tyrant and a dictator, but a mis-judged reaction to a problem is as bad, if not worse than the problem itself.

And as far as Zion and EPN is concerned, that 1% garbage just went out the door the moment the Architect said no more extractions. That 1% was valid as long as the blues had a choice. The system we know was based on it. That choice doesn't exist anymore, to the Machine at least. Therefore, Zion will do what it needs to, since the Machine finds it necessary to do so.

We are humans. Our ancestors scorched the skies and destroyed the earth to fight the Machine, but we aren't our ancestors. We want to live, and live in freedom without being threatened.

You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom.
- Malcolm X (1925 - 1965)

- Ezechiel

Niobe, you've made it clear that Zion never wanted peace.  You are the reason we were enslaved in the first place, and you are the reason we cannot live in peace with our machine brothers and sisters.  You and anyone who thinks like you are a cancer and must be cut out if we are ever to heal and stand a chance of living through another generation.

You make me sick, and I am fully prepared to put you and your followers down to protect the billions of humans who still need the Matrix as well as the machines who have just as much right to live on this planet as we do.

You speak of what you do not know. Shut the **** up and go learn what peace is. This has nothing to do with peace.
They were trying to control us with fear and we didn't like it. So we threw the Architect a curve-ball and he didn't like it. End-of-story.

Pyraci wrote:

Yo' cuz. Tell them the whole story. In hindsight, Iraq did a bunch of things that big bad America and the UN didn't like, but when the US said "We think you have WMD's. Give em up now!" and they didn't have them, the US went in anyway, guns blazing on faulty intelligence and assumptions in an attempt to maintain control of an indirect threat and made the situation for both sides worse. Iraq isn't justified in what they did, and their leader was a tyrant and a dictator, but a mis-judged reaction to a problem is as bad, if not worse than the problem itself.

And as far as Zion and EPN is concerned, that 1% garbage just went out the door the moment the Architect said no more extractions. That 1% was valid as long as the blues had a choice. The system we know was based on it. That choice doesn't exist anymore, to the Machine at least. Therefore, Zion will do what it needs to, since the Machine finds it necessary to do so.

We are humans. Our ancestors scorched the skies and destroyed the earth to fight the Machine, but we aren't our ancestors. We want to live, and live in freedom without being threatened.

You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom.
- Malcolm X (1925 - 1965)

- Ezechiel

Just because you can't awaken bluepills that doesn't mean we can't.  Your assumption that extractions will cease is incorrect.

You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom.
- Malcolm X (1925 - 1965)

- Ezechiel

Skill wrote:

You speak of what you do not know. Shut the **** up and go learn what peace is. This has nothing to do with peace.
They were trying to control us with fear and we didn't like it. So we threw the Architect a curve-ball and he didn't like it. End-of-story.

Peace takes cooperation.  Zion never cooperated, so why should the machines have eased up?
Yeah right, we just sat there when the red-eyed agents attacked, when the fly swarms kicked up, when Anome went on a rampage, and when the General, in his infinite wisdom, tried to trick us into attacking. If the Gen. had gone to the machines we'd have had war in 5 minutes, as shown by this.
Us Machinists have cooperated since day one, and we are still trusted.
Why do you only associate yourselves with the machines when it makes them look good?
What have the machines done to cooperate with us? I'll tell you what they've done to make it difficult:
Cypherites? Oh right they weren't affiliated with the machines. I forgot.
Sentinel Army at our doorstep? Oh right, having an army buildup is totally supported under the truce.
Backhanded murder of Zionites and their redpill recruits? Oh no wait, that was the machinists that did that, under orders from gray. My bad.
The only way to achieve peace is to prove to them that we aren't going to try and wipe them out the second we have the capability.  Zion's actions prove the opposite.
I can't believe you bought into that so easily. We just want to live in a place where our family, our children are safe... But apparently the machines put a double-standard.

Pyraci wrote:

You can't separate peace from freedom because no one can be at peace unless he has his freedom.
- Malcolm X (1925 - 1965)

- Ezechiel

You quote Malcolm X and I quote Martin Luther King Jr.  Just which one was for peace again?

((The fact that you guys still do not understand how building a bunker full of defensive weapons can be viewed as a threat is disturbing.  I really hope that those arguing this point only believe this as an in character thing.  For those of you who actually pay attention in the world this very issue itself has the possiblity to leading to WWIII.  Turn on the news sometime and take a look at Iran and their nuclear issue and America and the missile defense shield and Russias response.  Russia responded by releasing the nuclear fuel to Iran which they were holding off from doing as a detterent to America))