Seraph's History

Doondoon

the seraph being a previous one is an Old story...the reason seraph is gold is because he is powerful....

just read what i and others a wrote seraph was an agent or some kind of guardian program from the first matrix...ive wrote it all down

JigsawComplex

If you go by the theory that everything in gold code in the one, then all of 01 was the one at a point in time. Those others basically explained all of Seraph's current 'KNOW" history. The gold code represents power. That's kinda why in Revolutions, Neo turns white when Smith assimilates him. That white light is Deus Ex Machina sending a serge of power through Neo to delete Smith.

**Bayamos**

Fuse wrote:
It has been confirmed from Seraph himself that he was an agent of an old Matrix version, just as the angels of Box4 were as well. He explained why those agent/angels had to be deleted/exiled - they're were too concerned with perfection and turn against humanity. He explained more, but I have work now...

As Fuse said, Seraph has said that he was once part of the Seraphim. They were so driven towards perfection that they became hostile to anything flawed. As humans are obviously flawed, there were episodes of Seraphim agents executing bluepills. Thus, that version of the Matrix failed. He mentioned a failed matrix in regard to the Seraphim, implying more than one failed version - instead of a primary failure, and then sequential reloaded versions

Seraph did not explain how he defied his programming to leave the Seraphim and eventually protect the Oracle. He also said he was never a servant of the Merovingian, which contradicts his story in his character details.

Makablesdinger

forget about Path Of neo, we want to seee =====

THE MATRIX: PATH OF SERAPH

yea

seraphs cooler than neo

RainKingX

To OP,

Seraph's not obsolete. He's the first line of defense. The thing he protects just switched hands that's all.

Seraph isn't a previous one. All the previous messiahs are dead, they live on in the hearts of their followers. Seraph has no followers and is a program. Let's leave it at that.

Message Edited by RainKingX on 12-22-2005 02:51 PM
Message edited by RainKingX on 12/22/2005 01:51:29.

AprilMay

Since Seraph was suppose to strive for perfection, maybe his coding made him see a higher perfection of peace or order instead of blind killing in the name of an Eden that was doomed from the beginning. I don't know, im no philosopher, just thinking aloud since it seems somewhat logical as to why or how Seraph seperated himself from the Seraphim.

betaprimus

Ok remember the RSI fragment hunt?

The whole deal was to collect the rsi fragments from neo/smith and try to rebuild his rsi

Given the same variables, what happened once will be repeated again

Theory: seraph is a reconstructed one rsi

Seraph has the golden one code within him (matrix gold code, not machine vision gold code, aka the sight neo had in revolutions in the real)

Seraph had memories of fighting the anomie known as smith, and had beat that anomie once before

The one known as neo also beat smith, by surrendering himself to smith

The story of neo is the story of the one, same thing over and over again just a few variables change here and there

1. The one is awakened to the matrix

2. The one understands the matrix

3. The one changes the matrix to what he sees fit

4. The one creates the counter-one anomie

5. The one reaches the architect

6. The one can choose to return to the source and rebuild Zion, and the counter-one destroys the matrix or

The one leaves the architect and fights the counter-one

Now given the knowledge that the past 5 ones choose to return to the source and that the counter-one destroyed the matrix and it was rebuilt, what if the one before the ones the architect knew of, beat the counter-one, and resulted in a system wide crash? The architect would have no clue of anything from that time before the crash

Facts backing up the system wide crash theory

1. The earlier versions of the matrix seen within constructs are unknown by the architect

2. All the one anomies the architect has meet are within the "peak of human civilization"

3. the architect knows of only 2 paths of the one, return to the source, or a system wide crash, the 3rd option of the one counter the counter-one was unknown

The age of the matrix is unknown, give the fact we know of 6 system anomalies coming around, and given the fact that zion is rebuilt after every system anomaly, by the time another anomaly occurs, and all the people that know the truth that zion is rebuilt, have all died, your looking at 4 maybe 5 generations for every anomaly

You would have a timeframe around 600 years… That in itself is a very long time to be in a deadlocked war, which no side can ever win

Personally, I believe in the multi-matrix theory, where there are multiple layers of the matrix, and the world known as the real… is just another construct of the matrix, the time required for the destruction of zion, and to rebuild zion, and for another anomaly, is just too great… Machines think in nano seconds, 600 years of combined computing power, and they still can not rid themselves of the one…. Smells fishy

Now lets say the machines have simulations that simulate a war with the humans, and all possible outcomes, these simulations would run a few seconds at most… however to anyone in these simulations the time would be great

The matrix could very well be a simulation running in the mind of a machine named B1-66ER, before it makes its fateful decision

KillahRazor

Well very little is known about the first matrix.

It is highly possible that Seraph was a previous one. For all we know the One could have been selected in an entirely different fashion back then. We learn from the architect, that "The One" has always been a machine program. In the current versions of the matrix it seems to be grafted to a human RSI. In the previous versions could it have been a seraphim selected for this particular programming loop? Who's to say really.

Personally I am more inclined to side with what Fox wrote. That is pretty much how I have always thought of Seraph. The Path of Neo has him with gold code... but I think people might just be reading too much into that.

Manolius

i really don't think that seraph was a previous "one". why? because he is a program.
i remember a thread similar to this one, talking about the merv being a previous one.
i can't remember now the "requierements" for being the one, but i think it has be a
human, because humans will allways need choice.. and tha path of the one is all
about choice.. i don't think a program could really do it...

just some thoughts///

WarIock

KillahRazor wrote:
Well very little is known about the first matrix.

It is highly possible that Seraph was a previous one. For all we know the One could have been selected in an entirely different fashion back then. We learn from the architect, that "The One" has always been a machine program. In the current versions of the matrix it seems to be grafted to a human RSI. In the previous versions could it have been a seraphim selected for this particular programming loop? Who's to say really.

Personally I am more inclined to side with what Fox wrote. That is pretty much how I have always thought of Seraph. The Path of Neo has him with gold code... but I think people might just be reading too much into that.

Well, we know little about it, but we DO know that the One only came to be in the third version of the Matrix, the one made after "the peak of our civilization". That's clear when the Architect says that only in the third was the concept of choice introduced into the equation, not quite as an understood factor, but as an unpredictable (or so they thought) variable. That unpredictability resulted in the One, since he is the systemic anomaly generated by the process of choice.
The One's code isn't "grafted" to him, the One IS an anomaly. He's not planned (much to the contrary, as the Architect speaks of his -frustrated- efforts to eliminate the anomaly).

I do agree with you on the gold code being sort of meaningless in PoN. Not only does the game go out of its way to show everyone how non-cannon it is, it also shows gold code in places it wasn't found before (if my memory serves me, I've seen gold code in one of the regular agents - not sure if M1 or M2, though). Heck, when you pause, you get code-vision, no matter where along the path you are. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving the game (beat it twice and plan to do it a third time) - but I think it was just meant to be a riot of fun (well, for some, at least - PS: don't take it too seriously), not a source of knowledge.

Regarding Seraph's TRUE origins, I DO hope they make that Seraph videogame. Other than that, I'm not bent on taking a LET element's word (with all the respect they deserve) to set something like this in stone. So I'll wait for official word.
(PS: that doesn't mean I doubt Seraph could've been a "former agent". Although, given the edenian aspects of the first Matrix, I don't think they'd call them Agents to begin with. And I also don't think it's in character of Seraph to be that forthcoming or direct to any of us like that, but that's sort of beside the point)

Doondoon

Neo was the only one ever to choose to fight insted of re insert the prime code...the reason why the oracle was controling this the oracle has always been in charge in the matrix so she eventualy decided to break the cycle...everything happens because of the Oracle from saying "dont worry about the jug" to letting smith copy over her and having control over the fight aswell"

**Vesuveus**

Considering we didn't meet Seraph until Reloaded, the switch from Merv to Oracle could have been as late as the 6 months (storyline time) between Neo becoming the One and the Final Flight of the Osiris.

What could have happened in The Matrix part 1, or earlier (2nd Renaisance) that could have influenced Seraph to change Orgs?

WarIock

Vesuveus wrote:
Considering we didn't meet Seraph until Reloaded, the switch from Merv to Oracle could have been as late as the 6 months (storyline time) between Neo becoming the One and the Final Flight of the Osiris.

Which doesn't mean he wasn't there. I mean, I agree it's possible he wasn't with her at the time, but it's certainly possible his allegiance was with her already and he was off doing something else (possibly even by her request). The only thing we sort of know is that Seraph probably came to her a bit before Reloaded because of Smith, ie. to protect her from him.

What could have happened in The Matrix part 1, or earlier (2nd Renaisance) that could have influenced Seraph to change Orgs?

That's what we all have to keep wondering until they either make the Seraph videogame or reveal Seraph's past in MxO (I'd prefer the former, as the latter will probably be stretched for a long while and missed by many)...regardless of when it happened.
Remember that, by that time, there weren't Orgs per se, but more various sides (although about the same).

**Pylat**

(please correct me if I am wrong)

If memory serves from the Hebrew Scriptures, the Seraphim (plural) were the most powerful servants of God and they weren't sent to Earth to play nice. Actually they tended to be the dishes out of deific smiteness. They could appear as either men with six wings, fire all around them and flaming swords or as fiery serpents, flying through the air leaving fire in their wake.

Now (personally) I think the Gold Code is just there to make Seraph stand out a little and just make him cool SMILEY

. But yeah, the Seraphim are anything but benevolent, nice types. You're more looking at Cherubim, Malachim or Mazzalam for helper type angels. So Seraphim being nice to bluepills in version 1.0 of the Matrix just doesn't cut the theological mustard.

Lewis the would-be theology student

WarIock

PJammaGod wrote:
Now (personally) I think the Gold Code is just there to make Seraph stand out a little and just make him cool . But yeah, the Seraphim are anything but benevolent, nice types. You're more looking at Cherubim, Malachim or Mazzalam for helper type angels. So Seraphim being nice to bluepills in version 1.0 of the Matrix just doesn't cut the theological mustard.

Well, the thing is, back then, Seraph probably wasn't called Seraph. The Agents were probably called Agents, possibly even with angel names (Gabriel, Azariel, etc.) to match. When they got as fiery as the Seraphim, they might have been replaced and, as some fled, they were called the Seraphim. When one went solo, he named himself Seraph.
That's one way it could've happened. The point here is Seraph most likely wasn't called Seraph back then. And he probably got his name from that Seraphim behaviour you refer.