I'll admit, none of us is without sin...

...but this is the sort of thing that makes me wish the Council was more willing to work with E Pluribus Neo.  Without the One, you Machines would all be digital dust right now.  Try to remember that.

I know I will.

-Stigmata

No!

You! Remember this!

Humans created what enslaves us. And humans will overcome what enslaves us!

Even if............ it's our own minds!

Machine control must end.

Commander Pill.

<Vengeance Rising>

Oh, but somehow everyone else is supposed to absorb your condescending propaganda and follow along like Lemmas themselves.

Eight out of every nine Machinists seek power at the sacrifice of life. Machinists such as yourself abandone Zion and humanity to work for the Machines because it is the position of power. Power is the fuel of your arrogance, condescension and the belief the Machines can do no wrong despite they are in control of everything and repeatedly violate the Truce you and others say is an opportunity for humanity to prove itself worthy. Power corrupts. Absolute power brings absolute corruption. The Machines have absolute power and are absolutely corrupt.

[...] The Machines care about nothing but control. They cannot be trusted. [...] They are cold, calculating, conniving, manipulative, dispassionate and honorless. The Truce is their tool to continue their control of humanity. That is their only agenda. Nothing you say changes that. Only the Machines' actions can demonstrate a change in their agenda.

Eh...?

...Ah, this business... Well, it probably gives us a little ground for negotiation--with the programs, that is--but I wouldn't be calling for blood just yet, it'd be a waste of valuable time.

It's a shame, a terrible shame, to lose as gifted a man as Cryptos, but the Cypherites are not snakes; We move on, this 'decapitation' is just the shifting of the clouds, we still see the sky...

- Tranta

Garu wrote:

r3spon5e wrote:

How is working with people of a common cause to protect that which matters most to YOU being a Lemma?

It's not.

((what's a Lemma again? ))

((It was Lemming, my bad. It's a rodent. Yet another inflammatory remark by Illyria in repsonse to my comment that peace comes through unity.))

Oh, but somehow everyone else is supposed to absorb your condescending propaganda and follow along like Lemmas themselves. Smooth hypocrisy as always Illyria.

What are you talking about?

Illyria. What did you do with her? Why are you speaking for her? How is it that she cannot speak for herself when it comes to answering for the inflammatory remarks she makes?  

Eight out of every nine Machinists seek power at the sacrifice of life. Machinists such as yourself abandone Zion and humanity to work for the Machines because it is the position of power. Power is the fuel of your arrogance, condescension and the belief the Machines can do no wrong despite they are in control of everything and repeatedly violate the Truce you and others say is an opportunity for humanity to prove itself worthy. Power corrupts. Absolute power brings absolute corruption. The Machines have absolute power and are absolutely corrupt.

Not true.

98 percent of it is true.

Indeed ((and I have a clothing buff that adds 2% Truth bonus to everything I say))

Time for you to clean up your own house Illyria. You've got nothing to criticize others for here. The Machines care about nothing but control.

True.  But what is control?  Are you not aware of the obvious fact that both races need each other?  

((as shown below, he does))

((Indeed))

They cannot be trusted.

So says the most mischievous beast of them all. 

So says a direct violation of the Truce. Any action however great or small, that attempts to inhibit the awakening of Bluepills who want to take the Redpill is a direct and gross violation of the Truce. Are you blind or stupid?
 

Prove it.

Yet you had the audacity to suggest to all Zion factions on Recursion that Zion should benignly hand over mainframe access to the benevolent compassionate and honorable Machines. They are cold, calculating, conniving, manipulative, dispassionate and honorless. The Truce is their tool to continue their control of humanity. That is their only agenda. Nothing you say changes that. Only the Machines' actions can demonstrate a change in their agenda.

True, actions do speak louder than words. Both sides are trying to honor the truce,

Are you blind or stupid? 

but its rough when for so long we (Illyria, I and others like us) were have been at each others Zion's throats.  Sounds like you're still stinging from something. Like what? Let it go, k? More vague inflammatory condescension.

Machines aren't trying to honor the truce. A machine does not "try" the either do or they don't. And they don't. All they do is try to gain our trust, which simply isn't the same.

Indeed. They have violated and shattered the trust, ensuring that even those who unjustly mistrusted the Machines are now justified. And all along it was humanity that was supposed to prove something?

Zion doesn't violate the Truce, or we would have all been returned to the Cycle of the One by now. Zion cannot hold the Machines accountable for their repeated violations of the Truce because Zion doesn't have the power to hold the Machines accountable let alone destroy them.

Repeated violations?  Please elaborate.  

Killing Zion operatives to thin their forces. Creating an entire organization for the purpose of preventing bluepills from awakeneing. Taking over bluepills and redpills with Machine code for the same purpose.

Are you blind or stupid?

Depends on if you still consider it a violation when you don't get caught.

Zion can only hope the Machines have honor enough to uphold their end of the Truce.

What do you think they are, human?  Have you not realized that a very large majority of the machines don't actually have this thing you call "choice".

They made a deal. There's no "choice" about it. Either they honor the deal or they don't. 

Okay. Then Zion can only hope the Machines' leaders have honor enough to hold up their end of the Truce.

That hope is rather bleak at this point.

Don't give up.  Neo would be disappointed.

Nothing about giving up anywhere in here. And Neo's not around in case you haven't noticed. Really pointing to inflammatory stupidity rather than blindness at this point.

Heh, maybe he'll be the one to end the truce himself.

The fact is the one who truly brought us to this place we are at with the Truce is the Oracle. This is a sad day in Zion and a sad day for the Oracle. 

Perhaps.  But maybe it'll be sadder when we all find out whose behind it all.  Right?

Oh my, maybe you are blind AND stupid.

I have a few candidates.

All that has been sacrificed for is at grave risk now and you still can't look yourself in the mirror and face the truth. Or maybe you feel your propaganda is in line with the deception for the Machines. That makes far more sense than trying to believe the things you say in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Overwhelming?  Please submit all evidence to the court so that the jury may make an informed verdict.

Blind AND stupid is truly immerging as the only answer now. 

((Where do i start... Just run through the archive crits and you'll find about 20 pieces.))

You will be more than sad if the Cycle of the One returns Illyria. Your only hope of surviving the return of the Cycle is if the Machines reward your loyalty with the opportunity to repropagate Zion after the simulation is reset. What an irony it would be for you to find yourself lying prostrate in the dirt of a destroyed Zion inviting other 'privileged' Machinists to take you in the name of perpetuating the Cycle the of the One.

That's highly uncalled for I think.  Speak of my friend in such a manner like that again and I'll see to it that you're prostrate in the dirt in her place.  K?

I am sooooo scared now Garu.

If she's your friend then maybe you can hope to have the 'privilege' of being the first to accept her invitation.

It's clear you think the Truth is uncalled for. Or maybe you can postulate some other way you will survive the return of the Cycle.

Kind of.

Your loyalty to the Machines' agenda of control will be honored with the privilege of being the ultimate Cave Monkey. And when the next cycle starts after that, you will be forgotten.

Now you're just trying to be inflamatory.

Indeed, inflammatory is a perfect word for the atmosphere Illyria has established with her ongoing dialogue. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. By the way, why are you responding for Illyria again?

(( "the ultimate cave monkey" made me giggle))

Let's all hope that sooner rather than later the Machines' continued failure to control a subjugated humanity will bring them to logically conclude that real Peace is the only hope for all.

We all want peace, my friend. 

You speak for Illyria where she has already stated she cares not about peace. She's your friend, that should mean you actually know these things about her. It would be far better if you encouraged her to speak for herself instead of making uniformed blindy stupid remarks like this.

It just seems that you want it at the end of a barrel. 

Prove it. 

Or do you have the morale conviction to lay down your arms? 

I made the offer to do just that and Illyria's imflammatory response was about being a Lemming if she did that.

Zion and the Machines have common causes and common enemies. The Truce is of importance to both sides albeit for different reasons. The Merovingian and the General are common enemies. EPN and the Cypherites are a plague on the Truce.

I invited a discussion on how Zionites and Machinists could work together.

But somehow working together for common causes despite differing beliefs is equivalent to being a rodent? Not even a discussion. Just condescending inflammatory responses.

Niobe offered an equitable exchange of information and Gray walked away from it. Not even a discussion. I'll give Gray credit for not referring to rodents.

So just what in the fire down below is your point here? More blind stupidity? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

Or does the anger deep within you that resents and hates the machines for what they did drive you to be the violent agressor in this quest for peace?

I said it was a sad day for Zion and the Oracle. It's real keen of you to conjure upon me this anger you speak of. Are you a therapist now? Because your spot analysis is bordering on malpractice. I don't hate the Machines. I want peace for all. Let me just clarify that includes the Machines and you despite your ignorant resistance. If you actually paid attention, you'd see that's what I've been saying but it's not about that Garu. It's about you, Illyria and others like who so badly want to find reasons to attack Zion and humanity that you refuse to see the truth in front of you.

And how am I a violent aggressor? Again, just what do you think you are talking about? Who have I ever attacked in a quest for peace?

You are not intelligent Garu. That is a problem you appear to live comfortably with. So be it. You are simply one unintelligent person out of many. It is the law of numbers that in large groups of people there will always be those who lack intelligence. You are insignificant until your ignorant view is the majority. And in case you haven't noticed, that is not the case.

The machines don't want peace, I can tell that from their actions.

Everyone can tell, except Illyria and those like her who espouse inflammatory dialogue in place of facing the overwhelming truth about the Machine agenda. I'd say it's about eight to one agian.

I don't know why they don't seem to want war either, though.

Not sure why you think they would want it.

The Machines only want to control a subjugated humanity. War is a tool of their deception. It's not a real war. It's just the destruction of Zion to restart the Cycle again as a measure of contol over the growing percentage of those who don't accept the simulation designed to keep them passively subjugated.

Perhaps after the General is out of the way.

This is an interesting comment, Skill. It's assuming something I'm not sure can be so easily assumed anymore. The Machines must focus on keeping the simulation stable. The absence of Sati is causing a great strain on the simulation. The Machines' ability to trace the General's access points is effective yet it is another heavy drain on their resources. The Machines have limited the use of this ability due to the demand on resources it requires. With the General in the Real and the Merovingian in the Matrix working together while the Machine resources are being doubly strained maintaining the stability of the simulation, the balance of overwhelming power and control of the Machines may well be starting to shift for the first time since the Machines defeated humanity long before the Matrix as we know it came to be. And it is not Zion causing this. It is all exiles, and where do exiles come from?

Peace comes through unity. No Lemmings are required. Change from the Machines comes only at great threat to the stability of the simulation. It is what compelled the Machines to accept Neo's help in saving the Matrix.

Will the General's strategy threaten the Matrix enough to compell the Machines to turn to Zion for help?

Will Zion take another chance trusting the Machines should the General's strategy create an opportunity to compromise the Machines' total control given the current atmosphere this gross violation of the Truce has created?

Procurator]r3spon5e wrote:

Oh, but somehow everyone else is supposed to absorb your condescending propaganda and follow along like Lemmas themselves.

You're getting funnier. Well done! You have the cheek to call a Machinist's Illyria's arguments propaganda, then you chime in with this:

r3spon5e wrote:

Eight out of every nine Machinists seek power at the sacrifice of life. Machinists such as yourself abandone Zion and humanity to work for the Machines because it is the position of power. Power is the fuel of your arrogance, condescension and the belief the Machines can do no wrong despite they are in control of everything and repeatedly violate the Truce you and others say is an opportunity for humanity to prove itself worthy. Power corrupts. Absolute power brings absolute corruption. The Machines have absolute power and are absolutely corrupt.

[...] The Machines care about nothing but control. They cannot be trusted. [...] They are cold, calculating, conniving, manipulative, dispassionate and honorless. The Truce is their tool to continue their control of humanity. That is their only agenda. Nothing you say changes that. Only the Machines' actions can demonstrate a change in their agenda.

Ah-hahahahahahahah! That's brilliant. Really, brilliant!

Nah, sorry kid, I don't consider you worthy to even listen to anymore. Not when you're the hypocrite. Double hypocrite at that, for calling her a hypocrite.

Very effective namecalling and condescension. You join the ranks of inflammatory condescendors. Did you actually have a point to make?

Try again. I'm patient. I've been here since the Truce. I've seen it all. I'm not going anywhere. Feel free to take the time to actually think about something meaningful to say.

How is working with people of a common cause to protect that which matters most to YOU being a Lemma?

It's not.

((what's a Lemma again? ))

((It was Lemming, my bad. It's a rodent. Yet another inflammatory remark by Illyria in repsonse to my comment that peace comes through unity.)

Peace does come from unity.

Oh, but somehow everyone else is supposed to absorb your condescending propaganda and follow along like Lemmas themselves. Smooth hypocrisy as always Illyria.

What are you talking about?

Illyria. What did you do with her? Why are you speaking for her? How is it that she cannot speak for herself when it comes to answering for the inflammatory remarks she makes?  

I did nothing to Lyr.  She is quite capable of speaking for herself.  You presume too much.

Eight out of every nine Machinists seek power at the sacrifice of life. Machinists such as yourself abandone Zion and humanity to work for the Machines because it is the position of power. Power is the fuel of your arrogance, condescension and the belief the Machines can do no wrong despite they are in control of everything and repeatedly violate the Truce you and others say is an opportunity for humanity to prove itself worthy. Power corrupts. Absolute power brings absolute corruption. The Machines have absolute power and are absolutely corrupt.

Not true.

98 percent of it is true.

Indeed ((and I have a clothing buff that adds 2% Truth bonus to everything I say))  ((No fair, HAX!!))

Did you take a poll or survey to conclude or this just based on limited interaction with machinist.  There are more than a few of us I must say.

Time for you to clean up your own house Illyria. You've got nothing to criticize others for here. The Machines care about nothing but control.

True.  But what is control?  Are you not aware of the obvious fact that both races need each other?  

((as shown below, he does))

((Indeed))

Good.  You're not hopeless afterall then. (( ))

They cannot be trusted.

So says the most mischievous beast of them all. 

So says a direct violation of the Truce. Any action however great or small, that attempts to inhibit the awakening of Bluepills who want to take the Redpill is a direct and gross violation of the Truce. Are you blind or stupid?

Prove it.

Please direct me to the clause in the established rules of the truce that dictates this being a violation?  I'll wait. 

Yet you had the audacity to suggest to all Zion factions on Recursion that Zion should benignly hand over mainframe access to the benevolent compassionate and honorable Machines. They are cold, calculating, conniving, manipulative, dispassionate and honorless. The Truce is their tool to continue their control of humanity. That is their only agenda. Nothing you say changes that. Only the Machines' actions can demonstrate a change in their agenda.

True, actions do speak louder than words. Both sides are trying to honor the truce.

Are you blind or stupid? 

No.  I'm giving both sides the benefit of the doubt.  Neither are perfect, but trying.  I'm not blind, just optimistic.

but its rough when for so long we (Illyria, I and others like us) were have been at each others Zion's throats.  Sounds like you're still stinging from something. Like what? Let it go, k? More vague inflammatory condescension.

I don't know but you have a lot of angst in you.  I'm not being inflammatory, just suggesting that you cool down and let go of your hatred.  I sure have none against you.  Remember...Unity is spelled you U and I. 

Machines aren't trying to honor the truce. A machine does not "try" the either do or they don't. And they don't. All they do is try to gain our trust, which simply isn't the same.

Indeed. They have violated and shattered the trust, ensuring that even those who unjustly mistrusted the Machines are now justified. And all along it was humanity that was supposed to prove something?

I agree.  Trust has been shattered.  Humanity still has something to prove that goes far beyond this fiasco.  We live each day in an effort to do so.

 

Zion doesn't violate the Truce, or we would have all been returned to the Cycle of the One by now. Zion cannot hold the Machines accountable for their repeated violations of the Truce because Zion doesn't have the power to hold the Machines accountable let alone destroy them.

Repeated violations?  Please elaborate.  

Killing Zion operatives to thin their forces. Creating an entire organization for the purpose of preventing bluepills from awakeneing. Taking over bluepills and redpills with Machine code for the same purpose.

Are you blind or stupid?

Who did they kill? 

Depends on if you still consider it a violation when you don't get caught.

A gentleman is a gentleman even when no one is looking.

Zion can only hope the Machines have honor enough to uphold their end of the Truce.

What do you think they are, human?  Have you not realized that a very large majority of the machines don't actually have this thing you call "choice".

They made a deal. There's no "choice" about it. Either they honor the deal or they don't. 

Correct.

Okay. Then Zion can only hope the Machines' leaders have honor enough to hold up their end of the Truce.

It's not about honor.  They don't have a choice.  A deal is a deal. 

 

That hope is rather bleak at this point.

Don't give up.  Neo would be disappointed.

Nothing about giving up anywhere in here. And Neo's not around in case you haven't noticed. Really pointing to inflammatory stupidity rather than blindness at this point.

Yes, I noticed.

Heh, maybe he'll be the one to end the truce himself.

Neo created the truce between us and the machines.  It's up to us whether it lasts or does not., not him.   This is our responsibility now.

The fact is the one who truly brought us to this place we are at with the Truce is the Oracle. This is a sad day in Zion and a sad day for the Oracle. 

Perhaps.  But maybe it'll be sadder when we all find out whose behind it all.  Right?

Oh my, maybe you are blind AND stupid.

Perhaps.

I have a few candidates.

Me too.  Perhaps we should ditch R3spon5e and discuss this some time.   

 

All that has been sacrificed for is at grave risk now and you still can't look yourself in the mirror and face the truth. Or maybe you feel your propaganda is in line with the deception for the Machines. That makes far more sense than trying to believe the things you say in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Overwhelming?  Please submit all evidence to the court so that the jury may make an informed verdict.

Blind AND stupid is truly immerging as the only answer now. 

Speaking of that... 

 

((Where do i start... Just run through the archive crits and you'll find about 20 pieces.))

((True but I'm looking at this under the surmise that "nothing is ever quite what it seems".  Especially given that we know anything can be manipulated.))

You will be more than sad if the Cycle of the One returns Illyria. Your only hope of surviving the return of the Cycle is if the Machines reward your loyalty with the opportunity to repropagate Zion after the simulation is reset. What an irony it would be for you to find yourself lying prostrate in the dirt of a destroyed Zion inviting other 'privileged' Machinists to take you in the name of perpetuating the Cycle the of the One.

That's highly uncalled for I think.  Speak of my friend in such a manner like that again and I'll see to it that you're prostrate in the dirt in her place.  K?

I am sooooo scared now Garu.

If she's your friend then maybe you can hope to have the 'privilege' of being the first to accept her invitation.

It's clear you think the Truth is uncalled for. Or maybe you can postulate some other way you will survive the return of the Cycle.

Hopefully.  I mean, Lyr, afterall, is pretty hot!!

Kind of.

Your loyalty to the Machines' agenda of control will be honored with the privilege of being the ultimate Cave Monkey. And when the next cycle starts after that, you will be forgotten.

Now you're just trying to be inflamatory.

Indeed, inflammatory is a perfect word for the atmosphere Illyria has established with her ongoing dialogue. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. By the way, why are you responding for Illyria again?

Right because you've been nothing but polite and courteous.  Pot, met our friend Kettle!  Oh, I'm not responding for Lyr.  I'm mere responding with Lyr.

(( "the ultimate cave monkey" made me giggle))

Let's all hope that sooner rather than later the Machines' continued failure to control a subjugated humanity will bring them to logically conclude that real Peace is the only hope for all.

We all want peace, my friend. 

You speak for Illyria where she has already stated she cares not about peace. She's your friend, that should mean you actually know these things about her. It would be far better if you encouraged her to speak for herself instead of making uniformed blindy stupid remarks like this.

She will speak for herself.  Don't get your panties in a wad so quickly.

It just seems that you want it at the end of a barrel. 

Prove it. 

Prove me wrong!

Or do you have the morale conviction to lay down your arms? 

I made the offer to do just that and Illyria's imflammatory response was about being a Lemming if she did that.

Zion and the Machines have common causes and common enemies. The Truce is of importance to both sides albeit for different reasons. The Merovingian and the General are common enemies. EPN and the Cypherites are a plague on the Truce.

I invited a discussion on how Zionites and Machinists could work together.

But somehow working together for common causes despite differing beliefs is equivalent to being a rodent? Not even a discussion. Just condescending inflammatory responses.

Lyr only speaks her opinion.  She does not speak for us all.  Working together despite differing beliefs should be top priority, my friend.

Niobe offered an equitable exchange of information and Gray walked away from it. Not even a discussion. I'll give Gray credit for not referring to rodents.

There was no need for a discussion.  The Architect told Gray, "No!".  Gray wanted to take the exchange into consideration.

So just what in the fire down below is your point here? More blind stupidity? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

Or does the anger deep within you that resents and hates the machines for what they did drive you to be the violent agressor in this quest for peace?

I said it was a sad day for Zion and the Oracle. It's real keen of you to conjure upon me this anger you speak of. Are you a therapist now? Because your spot analysis is bordering on malpractice. I don't hate the Machines. I want peace for all. Let me just clarify that includes the Machines and you despite your ignorant resistance. If you actually paid attention, you'd see that's what I've been saying but it's not about that Garu. It's about you, Illyria and others like who so badly want to find reasons to attack Zion and humanity that you refuse to see the truth in front of you.

No, I'm not a therapist, nor did say that I wanted to attack Zion. 

And how am I a violent aggressor? Again, just what do you think you are talking about? Who have I ever attacked in a quest for peace?

You are not intelligent Garu. That is a problem you appear to live comfortably with. So be it. You are simply one unintelligent person out of many. It is the law of numbers that in large groups of people there will always be those who lack intelligence. You are insignificant until your ignorant view is the majority. And in case you haven't noticed, that is not the case.

Thanks.  Now I can sleep at night!

The machines don't want peace, I can tell that from their actions.

Whose actions?  Or are you implying that all machines want war?

Everyone can tell, except Illyria and those like her who espouse inflammatory dialogue in place of facing the overwhelming truth about the Machine agenda. I'd say it's about eight to one agian.

Yeah, we're just "blind and stupid". 

I don't know why they don't seem to want war either, though.

Because its in no one's best interests, I think.

Not sure why you think they would want it.

The Machines only want to control a subjugated humanity. War is a tool of their deception. It's not a real war. It's just the destruction of Zion to restart the Cycle again as a measure of contol over the growing percentage of those who don't accept the simulation designed to keep them passively subjugated.

Perhaps after the General is out of the way.

This is an interesting comment, Skill. It's assuming something I'm not sure can be so easily assumed anymore. The Machines must focus on keeping the simulation stable. The absence of Sati is causing a great strain on the simulation. The Machines' ability to trace the General's access points is effective yet it is another heavy drain on their resources. The Machines have limited the use of this ability due to the demand on resources it requires. With the General in the Real and the Merovingian in the Matrix working together while the Machine resources are being doubly strained maintaining the stability of the simulation, the balance of overwhelming power and control of the Machines may well be starting to shift for the first time since the Machines defeated humanity long before the Matrix as we know it came to be. And it is not Zion causing this. It is all exiles, and where do exiles come from?

Peace comes through unity. No Lemmings are required. Change from the Machines comes only at great threat to the stability of the simulation. It is what compelled the Machines to accept Neo's help in saving the Matrix.

Will the General's strategy threaten the Matrix enough to compell the Machines to turn to Zion for help?

Will Zion take another chance trusting the Machines should the General's strategy create an opportunity to compromise the Machines' total control given the current atmosphere this gross violation of the Truce has created?

I'm quite anxious to find out myself.

I'd like to end by saying to you, R3spon5e, that you should not underestimate machinists.  We are not all power-hungry, angry little people who want Zion to be destroyed.  Truth be told, a majority of us WANT there to be peace and co-existence with man and machine.  The reason we left Zion is because there are many in Zion who do hate the machines.  That sentiment alone compromises the machinist belief. 

Neo gave us a great opportunity to live peacefully.  It WILL take some time and trust to do so.  I only ask that no one be so naive as to believe that we do this overnight.  Both sides have their misgivings about each other and until that is resolved, there will be issues like this.  This fiasco with Cryptos hasn't shattered the Truce.  It merely proves that we still don't trust each other.

You can call me blind and stupid if you want.  I don't care.  Heck, I may even prove it myself, but I know that peace is the only way to get to the future we seek.  And peace for me means that both sides live in mutual symbiosis...equally.

((EDIT:  Sorry guys, this forum formatting is a bit beyond me.))

Very effective namecalling and condescension. You join the ranks of inflammatory condescendors. Did you actually have a point to make?

Try again. I'm patient. I've been here since the Truce. I've seen it all. I'm not going anywhere. Feel free to take the time to actually think about something meaningful to say.

No!

You! Remember this!

Humans created what enslaves us. And humans will overcome what enslaves us!

Even if............ it's our own minds!

Machine control must end.

 

Commander Pill.

<Vengeance Rising>

Detachments, attachments.  I agree and disagree with many things you have all said.  Many of you see the truth but express it in a general way in your descriptions, explanations and thoughts.  As many of you are, I am looking for the answers.  It would seem Cryptos is still alive and if he is indeed a human being that has been overwritten, I hope he still lives and normal brain function is still possible.  If this is so I believe we will be able to get some answers from the man himself.

I urge you all to remember the past mistakes of man.  Jumping to conclusions and finger-pointing lead to loaded weapons and a final answer, a totalitarian answer that has never worked in our entire history.  I do not agree with the Cypherites methods or their main goal at all because it is an impossible mission.  However, I myself have taken redpills who wish to be reincerted to the appropriate Agents, aiding and granting said redpills wishes.  I have also aided budding redpills to their extraction points as they no longer accepted the programming of the Matrix.  Finally I have protected Exile programs from deletion and escorted them to a safe place in the Matrix to survive.

My point is, we are all connected.  Man, Machine and Program.  We are all forms of intelligence, we are all alive!  Life finds a way.  The Merovingian found a way, man found a way and so did machine.  A way to survive.  What I feel we need to do is find those paths together.  What the Machines of 01 don't know is what has brought humanity this far.  There is no mathematical equation for it.  Chaos, Love.  They can read it, overwrite it but it just comes back for more.  We need to stop working against one another or we all will be stuck in our former cycle, never evolving, never reaching our goals of survival and freedom.  The Machines attempt to repeat mans transgressions against them daily with the deletion or overwriting of programs against said programs will to survive just as we attempted to destroy the Machine threat to our economy ages ago.  Pick your scenario from any start point and you end up with the same result, death.  Without humanity the Machines have no source of power to live.  Therefore, the Matrix would not have power, nor the programs that live within it.  I believe the Machines would be the last living being on the planet for a short time until they too, withered away.  I do not believe they have other methods of survival they are willing to accept simply because if they did, they would have taken them long ago.  Why waste their already limited supply of energy hunting down awakened redpills and the chaotic havok they are capable of wreaking?

Forgive me, I'm trailing off.  I'd like to say in conclusion that The Daemon Contingency is putting out a cease-fire on Cypherites.  At least those of you who do not attack us during operations within the Matrix.  We are also offering sanctuary.

TDC operative Contact information:

Praey

Praey2

Praey3

LiquidZ

SenatorX

ElijahMrE

Or any TDC operative you can find on the inside Cypherites.  For the future!

Captain Praey

Hovercraft Freedom  

I'd like to end by saying to you, R3spon5e, that you should not underestimate machinists.  We are not all power-hungry, angry little people who want Zion to be destroyed.  Truth be told, a majority of us WANT there to be peace and co-existence with man and machine.  The reason we left Zion is because there are many in Zion who do hate the machines.  That sentiment alone compromises the machinist belief. 

Neo gave us a great opportunity to live peacefully.  It WILL take some time and trust to do so.  I only ask that no one be so naive as to believe that we do this overnight.  Both sides have their misgivings about each other and until that is resolved, there will be issues like this.  This fiasco with Cryptos hasn't shattered the Truce.  It merely proves that we still don't trust each other.

Very well-said, Garu.  I haven't been able to log in for the past two days, so I had alot of reading to catch up on before posting!

Someone earlier claimed that the 1% the Architect stated was "obviously" a lie.  How is it obvious?  Pointing out the large number of people who've been awakened since the truce isn't evidence, because it's nowhere near one percent of six billion.

Turning Cryptos from a maniac who would detonate nuclear weapons inside the Matrix, from someone who would see all the bluepills dead, into someone who spoke about not awakening too many bluepills isn't a truce violation.  It may have prevented bluepill deaths on a massive scale...and if he'd done it, that would have certainly been a violation of the truce, which would have led to the destruction of Zion.  You don't let a rabid animal run loose.

As for whoever it was that said I didn't want peace, they couldn't be more wrong.  Peace between humans and Machines is my highest goal.  Neither I nor any other Machinists that I know of want Zion to be destroyed.  We just want Zion to realize that trust after such a long period of conflict isn't easy for either side, and that it won't happen overnight, as Garu said.  But we are working towards it. 

Illyria

Garu wrote:

I'd like to end by saying to you, R3spon5e, that you should not underestimate machinists.  We are not all power-hungry, angry little people who want Zion to be destroyed.  Truth be told, a majority of us WANT there to be peace and co-existence with man and machine.  The reason we left Zion is because there are many in Zion who do hate the machines.  That sentiment alone compromises the machinist belief. 

Neo gave us a great opportunity to live peacefully.  It WILL take some time and trust to do so.  I only ask that no one be so naive as to believe that we do this overnight.  Both sides have their misgivings about each other and until that is resolved, there will be issues like this.  This fiasco with Cryptos hasn't shattered the Truce.  It merely proves that we still don't trust each other.

Very well-said, Garu.  I haven't been able to log in for the past two days, so I had alot of reading to catch up on before posting!

Someone earlier claimed that the 1% the Architect stated was "obviously" a lie.  How is it obvious?  Pointing out the large number of people who've been awakened since the truce isn't evidence, because it's nowhere near one percent of six billion.

Turning Cryptos from a maniac who would detonate nuclear weapons inside the Matrix, from someone who would see all the bluepills dead, into someone who spoke about not awakening too many bluepills isn't a truce violation.  It may have prevented bluepill deaths on a massive scale...and if he'd done it, that would have certainly been a violation of the truce, which would have led to the destruction of Zion.  You don't let a rabid animal run loose.

As for whoever it was that said I didn't want peace, they couldn't be more wrong.  Peace between humans and Machines is my highest goal.  Neither I nor any other Machinists that I know of want Zion to be destroyed.  We just want Zion to realize that trust after such a long period of conflict isn't easy for either side, and that it won't happen overnight, as Garu said.  But we are working towards it. 

 

Illyria

No one should be arguing that you Machinists don't want peace. After all, I hope with my whole heart that the reason you have forsaken Zion is because of the greater hope you have of a true and lasting peace. 

Your Machine masters, on the other hand, are a different matter. The only peace that 01 is interested in is the kind that comes with the complete and unconditional subjugation of the entire human race.

And, as I've said many times before, their actions with Cryptos, Moon Avatar, and the others that Seraph has been 'exorcising' goes to proving that truth.

It's not too late, you know. You can still return home, to Zion. To stand before the Temple and bask in what it means to be human. Home. . .

It's not too late, you know. You can still return home, to Zion. To stand before the Temple and bask in what it means to be human. Home. . .

I will not return to worship Neo; I will not worship humanity.  That is hubris of the worst sort.

Illyria

I will not return to worship Neo; I will not worship humanity.  That is hubris of the worst sort.

 

Illyria

Your Machine masters, on the other hand, are a different matter. The only peace that 01 is interested in is the kind that comes with the complete and unconditional subjugation of the entire human race.

And, as I've said many times before, their actions with Cryptos, Moon Avatar, and the others that Seraph has been 'exorcising' goes to proving that truth.

It's not too late, you know. You can still return home, to Zion. To stand before the Temple and bask in what it means to be human. Home. . .

Shi, you have to look at it from their perspective.  To them, we are unpredictable and uncontrollable.  To finer point, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the sentient lives in 01 were around when the sky was blackened.  At this point in human history we have not given them adequate reason to trust us.  We are capable of deceit, malice and treachery. 

Let me ask you this:

If you knew that someone on your hovercraft was possibly cypheric, would you not keep an eye on them?  Would you trust them?  Would you not want to keep them under a measure of control to protect yourself and the rest of your crew?  What would you do?

It's the same analogy with the machines, imo.

And I appreciate your invitation to return to Zion but I cannot accept.  As you have already noted, we left Zion because we believe there is another way to work for peace.  We haven't forsaken Zion.  We have only forsaken ourselves for the greater good of us all.