Where is our world's place in the Matrix universe?

**zeroone506**

This has been already bugging me for ages:

[weak, redundant introduction:]
Most science-fiction or fantasy concepts have a clear relation to the real world:
either, they reveal facts about our world, portraying it as a fassade or something it doesn't seem to be (like e.g. Harry Potter or Men in Black [I do know others, don't worry]), or it takes place in another time, like the future, making our world to the past.
Even in the "His Dark Materials" romans, our world has a clear place from which we can then relate to the other realities.

Others again take place in an entirely different world, such as "Star Wars" or "Lord of the Rings".

I've always counted "The Matrix" to the first group. Starting from that, what's its actual concept, in relation to our world?
Do we live in the real world, before the invention of the AI, the Machines' takeover and the creation of a simulation built upon our world -- thus, the movies taking place in the future?
Or is it trying to make us believe that the world we live in is actually the Matrix, that there is a real world somewhere out there and something similar to our civilization had existed centuries before -- thus, it taking place in the present?

Of course, when thinking about it, you start looking for similarities to our world in the Matrix and the former Real.
Now, the picture we get to see in Animatrix does resemble our world at all, but it already takes place in the future, and the graphics and overall style are distorted, and, well, comic-like -- all of which doesn't make a definite answer easier.
Thus, the second variant would be the way to go: anything, starting with style, architecture and technology, aswell as the people and the society, through to Panasonic alarmclocks (in close-ups) and Rob Zombie songs in clubs, makes an impression of the world we're living in. Just anything.

However, now that MxO is out, we definitely know that the Matrix only consists of one (even though Mega) City, and that the green tint is not just a stylistic or symbolical tool but an established and well-known element of the Matrix simulation (although that's already been shown in "Revolutions"). These facts do not apply to the real world.

Apart from that, there's this "constantly, forever 1999" thingy, and that "the city has been constructed and implemented fully as it stands today" factor, that irrevocably make the Matrix a fake all through..

Should be the real world, then? Well, yes. But then, all the fascinating explanations for ghosts or aliens, unexplainable anomalies in our world, or people exceeding their limitations through mental power seem made for the first concept.
Because otherwise, if these things happen in our world, they also had happened in the Real before the Machines' takeover, and all these cool explanations would be wasted -- "ok, this is how it works, in the Matrix, but we don't know how it's in the Real, so bye".
That's at least the one counterpoint that comes in my mind right now.

Share your thoughts, please.

Sykin

Well, there's theories on certain facts that you listed there. Especially the "Always 1999" thing. I like to think of the Matrix getting freed from that year and that things are now moving forward. This game starting with the initial 2 years after the beginning of the Truce, we're more or less on the same track in our world and in the Matrix world.

But anyways, I like to think that our world is in fact the future of the Matrix's universe--We, in real life, are living after the end of the Matrix Online or perhaps even more beyond that end so far. I say this because, well, think about it. Who knows what will happen to the Matrix during the course of this game? I mean, Morpheus (maybe) getting killed proved to us all that no one can expect anything. What if the Merovingian is killed and the General goes away? What if Zion slowly or quickly fades into darkness? What if the Cypherites are all reinserted? What if by finding the One in this version of the Matrix, the Simulation is perfected?

Thus, we are living in the world, our world, which is really just a perfect Matrix in which the 1% of the population that always rejected it are now fine and content somehow. No more use for Agents, programs do as the Matrix, or perhaps the Source, dictate. Everything is as perfect as life was before the wars and before the destruction of the sky and the surface of the Real World.

It seems like that would be the ultimate goal for the Machines--Not just to provide themselves with a reuseable energy source but to also rebuild the world. Life to a Machine must be looked at as just another simulation. They are providing their creators with life once again... And they wish to make such a life as real and as functional as it can be just as we humans of the future (or of long, long ago) sought to program the most believeable artifical intelligence of all time...

**zeroone506**

Well, that's truly an interesting theory. It truly is.

But, in the end, it's still not that far from my "first variant", because, well, we still live in the Matrix. Green tint, fabricated history, year 1999? Pfft at those -- if we live in the future of the Matrix, they are alterable and explainable.
What about the rather limited size of the Matrix? Are the Machines going to extend the Matrix from a city into an earthball, eventually with some space around it? Hmm. Could be?

Apart from that, I'd say those 99% who fully accept the Matrix probably also don't see anything cryptic or strange about it, and live their lives as we do, without doubts. Thus, it could actually be perfect for them already in the present. But then, there would be those other factors speaking against it.

So yea, could be really what you're saying. Admittedly, I've never thought about it before :)

Sykin

Well, we're only subjected to the MegaCity because of conventional game logic--As in, it's not logical for the developers to even attempt making an entire world, heh. I believe the Matrix to be as robust as how the Earth was.

My theory is just one that is the most adaptable, I think. Of course, the theory would totally be wrong if the Matrix was destroyed.

One theory I have a huge problem with is the theory that there are Matrices within Matrices. I mean, why would the Machines create such a epic simulation on two or more levels when they could just devote all of their engineering on one world that could be a perfect simulation?

**zeroone506**

Well, it wasn't even logical for the developers to create the full Mega City -- we have only like 10% of it in the game.
But, the whole city does exist in theory (or fiction?). Thus, saying the Matrix simulated the whole globe wouldn't be too difficult.

But the Mega City description in the Atlas says "the Matrix simulated an American city in the year 1999" (paraphrased), and the Wachowskis confirmed it in an earlier interview.
However, there are certain contradictions. If Cryptos was not born in Jamaika, like the Sentinel says, but just somewhere else in the City, why does he claim it or have the accent? What exactly about the paper articles on Neo's monitor, reporting about Morpheus' appearences in diverse countries? Where does the freeway lead?

It's all just kinda weird.

As of the Matrices within Matrices, wasn't that a theory based on Neo's powers in the Real, before "Revolutions" was released? I thought there weren't a reason to think so anymore. :O

RainKingX

zeroone506 wrote:

This has been already bugging me for ages:

[weak, redundant introduction:]

Weakness...redundancy...for ages. Concept, what you do with the concept, and how many times you repeat it. You got it.