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Balance Out PvP - Hypers Related
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Systemic Anomaly

Joined: Jan 26, 2006
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At the moment we have a 1 v 1 combat system. Each fight can tend to be quite close which is a good thing but when it comes round to pvp, 1 extra person makes all the difference. If i'm interlocked along with a hacker and a gunner comes along, I'm dead. If its an MA and a MKT or hacker comes along, I'm dead.

We all know that the system can handle having 2 hypers loaded at a time. Fair enough it was unfair on hackers that it was Deflect that was always running but to be honest, in order to try and balance pvp a bit (instead of numbers = win) we need the 2.

One way I'v thought about it is we've got Shielded and Armoured clothing, try and get the coding along the lines of that. i.e. only 1 hyper per side can be loaded at a time. This would mean you would have the choice between dodge or block and deflect or sense.

I just really want to see a 2nd hyper cause you can't really do anything if you're only defending against 1 out of 4 trees.


Message edited by The_Bruceter on 12/05/2008 17:53:10.



Veteran Hacker

Joined: Jun 10, 2007
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Why not have the second hyper on a reuse hyper?

Nevermind... you'd have to have some way of working out if you already had a hyper loaded, and then what happens to interchange hypers >.>



Jacked Out

Joined: Dec 27, 2006
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I really wasn't going to post anything but perhaps the multifighting ability can be used for allowing two hypers being activated. It's been said before in the Sharpshooter/Multifighting thread. Obviously the problem with it is the accessibility by Hackers and Coders.

Numbers are always going to = win though at equal levels.


Message edited by Croesis on 09/22/2008 03:45:55.


Jacked Out

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2 hypers at all times I think would be best, one for whoever you're in IL with and the other for whatever kind of attacks are doing you the most damage from outside of IL.  That way it wouldn't be unfair to hackers as it wouldn't just be hyper-deflect + any of the other hypers.

As of now however, I tend to just switch hypers based on who I'm in interlock with.


Femme Fatale

Joined: Oct 27, 2007
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A combination of Bruce and Vinia's suggestions sounds good to me. 



Systemic Anomaly

Joined: Jan 26, 2006
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Yeah Tenshi thats what i try and do but at 20IS a hyper change, it can guzzle up your IS quite a bit.

Yeah the multifighting/sharpshooter could be changed to allow something.

Its MA's that seem to suffer the most with this. We need interlock in order to try and kill but then having 2 knifers appear and spam away, there really ain't anything you can do SMILEY (ok the other night i just managed to beat the MA and then escape the knifer SMILEY)

A change with the hypers could possibly let the underdogs win (depending how good they are etc.) Its just a bit unbalanced the fact you can only defend against a 1/4 of attacks at any one possible time.




Jacked Out

Joined: Aug 17, 2005
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Multifighting is garbage and should simply remain that way. If you wanna suggest going back to allowing 2 hypers to be active at a time, then suggest it... But dont add stipulations that force people to go down the operative tree just to be able to get the same defense as someone who is actually loaded out with operative trees. I mean basically the suggestion here is like rolling back to what we had in CR1 where you had to go down the hacker tree's to get your viral deflect up. Forcing a hacker/coder down the operative trees to get their defense will serve no other purpose but to gimp those classes.



Jacked Out

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AnXieTy wrote:

Multifighting is garbage and should simply remain that way. If you wanna suggest going back to allowing 2 hypers to be active at a time, then suggest it... But dont add stipulations that force people to go down the operative tree just to be able to get the same defense as someone who is actually loaded out with operative trees. I mean basically the suggestion here is like rolling back to what we had in CR1 where you had to go down the hacker tree's to get your viral deflect up. Forcing a hacker/coder down the operative trees to get their defense will serve no other purpose but to gimp those classes.

Multifighting as an ability is useless at the moment, but no it shouldn't stay that way. What is garbage is having an ability that does nothing, it should be utilised for something or removed completely. Besides If you had bothered to read the post then you would have seen that the fact it is in the Operative tree is one of the major issues with using the multifighting in this approach. Many people have suggested that if it were used like that then it should be moved to the awakened tree, something which I completely agree with.

Message edited by Croesis on 09/22/2008 04:39:43.


Ascendent Logic

Joined: Mar 16, 2006
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2 Hypers at one time would be a helpful addition (though i'm not necessarily for it, and neither are the devs, which is why they removed it in the first place) but that wouldn't solve 1 little problem (warning RANT):

Who loads Hyper-Sense? Nobody. Why? The commonly known defense against Knives is IL Ability Spamming. Also because it doesn't help much, especially not with Guns and MA. A MKT has an average Thrown Accuracy of 160, which is an average roll of 80 pts. The average Joe in PvP (who doesn't load Hyper-Sense, because there are no defense % ANYwhere except on clothing and attributes and renders it effictively useless) has an average Thrown Defense of 50-60 pts, which is an average roll on Defense of 25-30 pts. Even if our average Joe decided to use Hyper-Sense his TD would be around 100 pts which gives him an average roll of 50 pts, which is, I agree, alot more helpful, but the chance to defend against OoIL Thrown attacks or Sneak attacks (Staggering Throw, Punt, etc.), which you cannot "outspam" with your own abs, since you're not in IL, is still comparetively LOW.

Conclusio: Any Acc vs Def you can push your Defense WAY higher than Accuracy, but not with Thrown. And that is only because except for attributes and clothing we have no TD %. I'm not saying I can't fight and kill MKTs, even with the large disadvantage on my hands, but it's an unbalance that needs to be removed (much like the unbalance of AOE and single heals).



Perceptive Mind

Joined: Sep 1, 2005
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I suggest 1 of 3 things be done.

Hear meh out cause I'm super serial.

1. Give 1 ability in each of the MA trees a AOE, these AOEs could be activated and take about 30 IS per 4 seconds.

Kung Fu AOE causes powerless 5 seconds.

Karate AOE causes Stun 5 seconds.

Aikido AOE causes Slow 5 seconds.

Each one drains IS and you can only have 1 on at a time.

I feel these abilities would give MA's a slightly higher chance to fight groups in pvp, now mind you the range on the AOE wouldn't be the big but it might help out alittle bit.

 

2. Keep the exsisting hyper abilities, but Add a new one, call it Iron Clad Defense. This ability would drain the users IS about 15 IS per 10 seconds and would buff all the defenses by around 50-60. This way you could have the hyper abilities that don't take IS but if you are faced with alot of different trees and styles you can defend ageinst them all for as long as you IS can hold out.

 

3. Make all of the hyper abilities Passive so as long as you have them loaded, they all are active. Simple and effective.




Vindicator

Joined: Aug 15, 2005
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I think they should put the MultiFighting (or other named ability that allows use of 2 hypers) in the awakened tree right below determination.



Systemic Anomaly

Joined: Jan 26, 2006
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I wouldn't say under Determination, prob something a bit like need 2 of 4 hypers loaded in order to load it.

Good ideas so far, Skull I really like your ones (especially no. 1. Ki Burst etc could do that SMILEY)




Jacked Out

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Yeah the one gripe I have with CR2 is its way to numbers based.  I think the ability to load two hypers is a pretty realistic and good idea to solve this its not an end all be all fix bit it gives some survivability and thats a start.



Jacked Out

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The_Bruceter wrote:

I wouldn't say under Determination, prob something a bit like need 2 of 4 hypers loaded in order to load it.

I was thinking along similar lines, having it placed under the Hypers (next to the other abs) but have it only available when you have all four hypers loaded. Due to it giving the ability to have two hypers on at the same time, there should be a sacrifice and I think having all 4 hypers loaded would be fine for that sacrifice.


Vindicator

Joined: Sep 22, 2005
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I would still agree with just being able to activate whichever two hypers you're up against. Deflect and Sense, or Sense and Block etc.


 
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