Catholicism and the Cypherites.

Sykin

Now, a disclaimer: I am NOT bashing any religion here and I will not
disclose my own. But, I implore you to think for a moment and draw some
lines to the very FICTIONAL Cypherites and the real history of the Catholic faith.

So... Has anyone else seen some similarities or not?

**Foxxdie**

I've not researched it enough. But, you've caught my interest. Lay it on me!

Sykin

Well, it's funny how the Serpent and the Forbidden Fruit thing can both represent the red pill and the blue pill...

If we look at it the red pill way, we're saying that Adam/Eve was
banished (freed) into the desert (of the Real). This is a common
conception, if I will say.

Now, what if the desert is the false world of the Matrix, and the blue
pill is that little bit of temptation that made Eve take the fruit
instead of curiousity?

How about we look at what Cryptos says about Cypher:

"The code was
broken long ago by one who died for the sins of pride and anger caught
in the middle blasted with blue energy when he only wanted a blue pill!"

Sounds alittle like what we hear about Jesus being killed, or
some say sacrificed, for our sins. And, once you think about it, the
totally opposite can be said that Neo was the one who represented that.

"It's a simple choice: Poverty, Discomfort, Powerlessness -- or an embrace of what the world is."

..."It's a simple choice: Hell -- or an everlasting life."

Not a direct quote but what some basically preach. In an area of the
Catholic faith, people believe that beyond this life of ours, after we die, is
Heaven--Or Hell. We'll say that the Cypherites see the Matrix as the
best it can become; Heaven in other words, and that the Real World is
what the sinners must face before their Judgment.

Now note the Crusades and the horrors about that. The Church and its
followers of followers killed thousands for the "Holy Land." (Once
again this is history, not bashing here.)

This theory isn't for certain, of course, that's why it's a theory. The
problem is so much interchangable symbolism, which is what makes the
Matrix great. In one hand I can have Neo as the savior of Mankind
against all of its sins and past deeds (the Machines), in the other I
can have Mr. Anderson; Satan--He who would destroy the world and
consume all of the creations therein.

The problem is perception.

(Note: I'm no religious scholar, forgive me for my mistakes.)

Message Edited by Sykin on 12-08-2005 01:11 PM
Message edited by Sykin on 12/08/2005 13:11:43.

**Crossover**

It's alway interesting to hear new theories on topics and I have to admit Sykin you put a very intriguing spin to it. But as you say the problem is perception and the flip side may sound very similar.

The whole senario of the Serpent and the Apple is founded on the premise of greed, jealousy, temptation and betrayal. The very things Christianity is stressed to reject. The Apple is offered with the empty promises of power and absolution much like how our dear Mr. Regan was offered re-insertion into the Matrix, with the promise of a happy and blissful life in acting =). Adam&Eve however, commit the Original sin and are therefore banished from the garden of Eden where as Cypher betrays his crew and is (as Cryptos puts it) "caught in the middle blasted with blue energy."

The quote, "It's a simple choice: Poverty, Discomfort, Powerlessness -- or an embrace of what the world is." obviously can be read both ways. From a Cypherite point of view I can totally understand them referring to the first part as the 'Desert of the Real'. But if you look from a disatisfied blue pill's view maybe leaving the Matrix is the blessing and he/she would enjoy living a free life in Zion. =)
I wont go into Crusades much but we all know there are many other religions have had their share of killings in history as well.

In reference to Neo, I choose to agree with your initial portrayal. He is not only the Savior of Mankind but all of Machine and Exile kind as well. Many might view him as a threat but in the end he saved us all; he saved Matrix and at the sacrifice of his own life. So much interchangeable symbolism to choose from? I like to choose that one. =)

Message Edited by Cross-over on 12-09-2005 07:28 AM
Message edited by Crossover on 12/09/2005 07:28:58.

**Foxxdie**

Ohh, I thought you meant "real history of the Catholic faith" as in recorded events of the Catholic Church. I know about the connections to the Christian/Catholic mythologies in the Bible.

Sykin

Well, I would, if I knew much more, including the story of the Cypherites.

We can say that Morpheus was a scientist back then...

"...For I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the Church."

**Abigor666**

Cypherites are on a modern day crusade i believe.

They are willing to kill large amounts of people to make their faith the dominant one .

AprilMay

I don't think they really want to make a faith. In my MxO experience before SOE took over I was able to personally talk to Gemaskeerd, he and the rest of the Cyphers want to remember nothing of the Matrix or their strugle to be reinserted. They are only attempting to kill all Redpills to assure they wont be reawakened. I am quite impartial to all organizations in-game and can see why they might choose the fabricated reality over the true reality, but in tribute to Neo I dissaprove of their methods.

As for the connection they have to any religion... I'll leave that forother people to discuss (I don't know all too much about any religion).

Zelon

I think the Cypherites are looking for a way back in to the Garden of Eden they call the matrix. The Redpill is an apple of knowledge and of awakeness while the blue pill is the same road of fruit and junk food you live which each day. If I ate blue pills all day I would definetly take a red one.

The one thing I can say about the matrix is that there isnt any Noahs ark unless you concider the possibility that the one cycle is the arc where the ones that deserve it are taken from those that do not.

**Villemar_MxO**

Well the old mythologies and all previous religions viewed the Serpent with awe, they were associated with everlasting life because they shed their skins. The tree of knowledge was also a good thing that people should strive for. Then the writers of Genesis basically reversed all of that and that's why we have this bizarre story in Judeo-Christianity. Joseph Campbell talks a lot about this stuff.

Catholic Christianity has always view the Tree of Knowledge as bad, but the early Gnostics believed the only way for spiritual growth is through enlightenment as opposed to blind faith. The Catholic church pretty much stampted that "heresy" out and here we are. I belive the Matrix series has a ton of Gnostic symbology in it.

**Villemar_MxO**

I just realized something. In Judeo-Christian theology, the guardians of the Tree of Knowledge are fiery angels called Seraphim. What's the singular version of Seraphim? Seraph! Guardian of the Oracle (the Tree of Knowledge). SMILEY

**Rexxhavukk**

I relate the Cypherites to those who reject the Truth and redemption, choosing to satisfy their selfish lusts through lawlessness at the expense of others. Instead of the more uncomfortable pathway to real peace and contentment through brotherhood and Love.

"those who did not love the Truth were given a lie to believe in."

I think it was Cherubim placed at the east of Eden with the flaming sword(s) which turns every way.

The enthusiasm in this thread is really uplifting . Thank You

Message Edited by Rexxhavukk on 12-22-2005 08:03 PM
Message edited by Rexxhavukk on 12/22/2005 20:03:20.

JigsawComplex

I like your theory. I personally believe that Cryptos represents the Mulsim prophet Muhammad. In the beginning Cryptos was like most Zionists. He was a captain and he was very anti-Machine. During the most recent criticals, we learned that Cryptos disappeared in the Matrix, and reappeared a changed man.After her reappeared, he was almost a new man. His beliefs and personality chganged. He went rogue and became the Cypherite leader we all know him for.

Muhammad was like Cryptos. Muhammad was a normal man. Then, the Arc-Angel Gabriel appeared to Muhammad. Gabriel told Muhammad of Allah's (God's) plan. After that day, Muhammad became Allah's last prophet. He spent the rest of his life spreading the word of Allah. It is in this sense that Cryptos is like Muhhamad. He could have encountered his own Arc-Angel (The Oracle) and he could be her last prophet.

Sykin

Hmm... Gabriel... Agent Gray?

xGabrieLx

Sykin wrote:

Hmm... Gabriel... Agent Gray?

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