I have to agree with MoKap: "The devs said they wanted to make interlock faster, but they've added two more animations for the power and speed attacks, which takes it last longer. It basically looks exactly like the system we have now, except now with no way to tell what your rolls are."
One thing like is seeing my rolls...and how much I outrolled someone, vice versa. Especially to find out if that person is buffed or not.
About the attacks...they seem the same to me...a bunch of punches and kicks that take up the same amount of time.
I also have to agree with Betaprimus...why aren't these bugs being fixed? The evade bug from the NPC's and the CRASHING every 10 minutes or so...and of course not to mention exploits still out there...
-Maz-
Maybe I missed something..but in the video..he used regular hotbars and switched back and forth..in the pictures..it has two bars..one showing abilities....one showing buffs ..... so...what is the difference?.....as far as the action...they put the attacks into the hotbars.....God knows...I don't have enough room in my hotbars for all the abilities without adding the normal attacks.....I realize this was a taste...what is better with the hotbars...?...and if we can only get excited about the **bleep** baseball hat?... which has been half of the posts on this topic...
Yo,
Before I even start, I want to say, I'm not trying to rag on the devs. or anyone involved with the current "upgrades" that our game is going through. This is just simply my take on things. I would like to applaud the devs. for recognizing that the combat system in this game does need attention and that they are attempting to fix the known problems. However, everything that I have read and seen in regards to Combat 2.0, has left a very bad taste in my mouth. Also, note that my opinions expressed in THIS article are completely based on the media shown in this edition of "The Other Side of the Looking Glass". So hopfully this just wasn't the best first, "solid" piece of Combat 2.0 to be shown and that my feelings are totally wrong about what I got from the media given so far. :smileytongue:
Let's start with the "Concept" screen shots. The idea of adding a 2nd hotbar, awesome idea. This helps my concerns of having to add the "normal" combat maneuvers to my hotbar. I for one (and I'm sure, I'm not alone here) do not have enough hotbar space as things are now, just to fit my abilities and macros in. Not to mention if I had to take up atleast another 5 whole spaces for moves that are already implemented into the game perfectly fine. I don't see why we can't just have that little "side hotbar" that pops up when you enter interlock, become a static image and part of the overall HUD. I do hate how, when you have to many buffs and debuffs active at once they are hidden by the "Pop-up Combat UI". But, I think a better and easier way to fix that, is to just move the location of where your buffs and debuffs are displayed. For example, directly to the right of the hotbar, in that huge empty space between my hotbar and my character info. Another concern I have with the "dual hotbar" is that, those screens are labeled, "concept" screens. Where as the video file says it is Combat 2.0 footage. No where in that video did I see a 2nd hotbar. So is the "dual hotbar" idea being implemented into Combat 2.0 or is it just concept? I also like to use the "Shift + Numkey" shortcut for changing hotbars on the fly. What is the shortcut for changing your secondary hotbars going to be? "Shift + Alt + Numkey"? Sounds like a lot to be worrying about in the midst of combat....
Next, I would like to address some concerns I have with the Combat 2.0 video footage. Mainly the fact that this video showcased nothing new except a cleaner "looking" UI and combat animations. Overall I would say the interlock looked a little smoother and realistic, I don't know if it looked any faster. Also I noticed the use of our standard hotbar, only it was crammed with normal attacks in addition to your normal abilities. I noticed how many times you changed which hotbar you were using, during your short interlock sequence. Honestly, I almost NEVER change my hotbar during interlock, because 10 spaces is usually about enough room to fit all my main, "most often" used abilities for any of my "interlock" loadouts. I do not want to have to be constantly changing hotbars during a heated interlock in PvP. I also did not see the "dual hotbar" shown in the "concept" screenshots. I would like to think to myself, that since it's "concept" it will still be implemented into our QA release of Combat 2.0. Although, considering that the QA server and Combat 2.0 were supposed to be released yesterday and weren't, that makes me think that it will not be included. I hope you pushed back the release for reasons like implementing the "dual hotbars". Also someone stated in an earlier reply, that having the "normal" attacks as part of your hotbar, would make it so that we would no longer be able to use our directional keys to designate which "normal" attack we would like to use. That is a very minor concern, cause yes I know, I could just use number keys to choose a hotbar skill. I just for one like having my right hand choosing my normal attack and my left hand pumping out the special moves.
Now for my biggest concern with Combat 2.0 video footage shown. The HUGE lack of info given to the player. Yes, I agree that things like UI's and displays only clutter up the screen and make things less pretty, but I mean come on. I don't care how pretty my game looks while I'm trying to kill stuff. If I want pretty, I'm gonna hit "Ctrl + U" and remove everything from my screen and just watch or make a video file. When I'm in PvP or any type of combat, I want ALL the data and information I can possibly soak up, to give myself a better understanding of what my situation is and what my best choice to do next is going to be. In that video, obviously it does not show what your current attack VS. your opponents attack was or what either of you rolled. Sure I will know what they chose after they rail me with it. What good does that do me? I like to know what I'm about to get hit with. It lets me know what kind of states or damage I'm about to have inflicted upon me, which in turn helps me make a quicker, more planned out decision about what to do next. Should I ready up an antibiotic or health pill? Should I use one of my toughness enhancing abilities, because this move is about to lower my resistances? Should I call my teammates for help, cause I just got stunned and have become a helpless piece of prey? (lol) These are things that are going through my head every second of interlock and having the ability to efficiently plan ahead as much as I can taken from me after all this time... Well it doesn't make me happy, I can say that much.
Also how do I determine what style my opponent is using against me? Sure after a while of seeing all the animations, I will be able to determine what each style looks like, but for players who are new or do not play very often. It looks like they could be quite overwhelmed or feel confused on why certain things happen to them in interlock. I like to examine what types of attacks my enemy is using on me or try to see if they roll better with a certain one. It once again just helps the player to size up their situation. Also as previously said in one of the replies, I want to know how my opponent's overall rolls are to determine if they are buffed or not. I for one do not buff for duels and also like to keep PvP as fair as I can. If I duel someone and they beat me, how am I going to know if they were buffed or not? Just cause they outroll me almost every turn does not mean they were buffed. I can see MANY arguments starting already over that. If I know I'm being heavily outrolled in PvP, then I know I need to buff up in some manner to even stand a chance.
I'm also very disappointed that the video didn't even show the "Free Fire Melee", or "Damage Per Second", which are supposed to be the main points, not to mention the most "game altering" points of Combat 2.0. Altho, from what I gathered at the outset of the video, seeing the character outside of interlock and still having his normal attacks selectable, leads me to believe that you will always be able to use free fire melee. Which most definitly makes me concerned for the use of interlock in a PvP situation. Why would I want to make it so that I am immobilized and can only target and damage one opponent, when all of the other people around me can hit me, then turn, run over and hit my friend also?
I really don't want to sound so negative here. I just for one love the combat in MxO the way it currently is, even if it is broken. It is different from all other MMOs, very deep, and is very exciting in it's entirety. Other than all of my friends in this community, the combat is the ONLY thing that has kept me coming back and playing the game all this time. I do think some things are broken and need fixing, and/or tweaked. I'm just worried to many and quite possibly even the wrong things will be changed. I think a stronger focus on tweaking/fixing elements of the game rather than "re-inventing the wheel" of our combat system, would be better. As I have said many times before, as things stand, I'm not very optimistic about Combat 2.0. However I will definitly give it the benefit of the doubt and can't wait to try the real thing out for myself, before I pass final judgement on it.
To all of you developers, testers, programmers, and anyone else involved with MxO, enjoy your Holidays and time away from this HUGE project. I hope everyone gets some well deserved relaxation and has a joyful time celebrating whatever holiday they celebrate. :smileyhappy:
Happy Holidays to Everyone! :smileyvery-happy:
Peace!
Message Edited by Maverik770 on 12-24-2005 01:02 AM
Sigh....my shor reply is going to look so lame next to this huge essay....oh well.
Just was disapointed with the lack of the Melee Free-fire in the combat shown. Does look smother, but it looks exactly like what's in live, but with the odd new animation :/
I think the reason it appears to be zero-sum is the fact Walrus was taking on an NPC 3 levels lower...
Since, my understanding of the new combat system is that both opponents roll an attack and a defense. Those rolls are compared, and if both opponents outroll eachother's defense, both hit. However, the NPC wasn't outrolling walrus' defense rolls... so walrus was doing all the hitting.
Also, showing free-fire melee would probably have required another dev interlocking the NPC and walrus attacking free-fire style. Probably not something that was plausable as a rush job on the video.
The hotbar is pure concept and won't be on the EPS release... the hope is to squeeze it in before CR2.0 is considered "live-ready". Ultimately, it should and probably will be considered required for CR2.0 to go live.
Those worried about what your rolls are should still be able to see those numbers in the system messages. Walrus had that hidden to show off the animations and better fluidness of interlock in general... and his snazzy hat.
All in all... it looks like CR 2.0 is going to take some getting used to... and possibly breathe some new life into the game... making combat more fun and unpredictable.
Netizen wrote: -reply to Maverik770"What is the shortcut for changing your secondary hotbars going to be? Shift + Alt + Numkey?"The UI concept art shows "alt+#" text on the second toolbar. My friends and I got this game for free at a gamespot.com convention and are in our first month with it. All of us have played many MMOs together and think MxO has a lot of potential. We are still on the fence about subscribing because of the many bugs, but the combat revision looks promising. I do have a few items on my wishlist for combat though.- The ability to see buffs and debuffs on Team members. Although my friends and I use Ventrilo and communicate buff and heal requests vocally, it would help a lot if support characters could see this info. This would be a really nice feature... but there's all sorts of UI considerations and implementing it could be a royal pain.- A customizeable UI like World Of Warcraft. Although I have a Saitek Gaming Keyboard and can map just about any command or macro to my Command Pad my friends who do not have one are constantly complaining about the lack of UI options. The additional toolbar concept is a good start though and I like your idea of blinking ability buttons to show which ability has been queued up. While this would be entertaining... with the way MxO is built, there's too much possiblity for exploits and cheating with giving players access to the control mechanisms. - Lock down UI buttons. When running or kiting it is easier for me to click UI buttons than to move my hand off of the keyboard or mouse to reach numeric keys. However, it is very annoying when I accidently remove an ability from my toolbar when trying to click it. Other games now provide an option to lock down toolbar buttons so that this does not happen.This feature is actually in the game. It's buried somewhere in the options, but it is there. Sorry I can't be more precise... I just haven't looked for it in a while. While I'm at it I thought I would just add my number one request. I understand that it could not be possible until the new combat system is operational, but here it is. A better crafting system, sorry but some people are spoiled by SWG's. It would be great if a Coder could create an item then add enhancements to it. Imagine crews or factions running around wearing uniforms with the same look but cutomized to suit each person's abilities. I also think it would add a lot more diversity to player looks. Coders could also sell complete matching sets of clothing on the Marketplace, which would be really nice. Sadly, this would require an overhaul of the game even more massive than CR 2.0. The basic way the inventory/items system works is that each item has the buffs described along with the item itself. Completely non-modular. Making the system modular would require a complete rewrite of the entire inventory managment system... and much of the core combat engine that uses the item enhancements.
-reply to Maverik770"What is the shortcut for changing your secondary hotbars going to be? Shift + Alt + Numkey?"The UI concept art shows "alt+#" text on the second toolbar.
My friends and I got this game for free at a gamespot.com convention and are in our first month with it. All of us have played many MMOs together and think MxO has a lot of potential. We are still on the fence about subscribing because of the many bugs, but the combat revision looks promising. I do have a few items on my wishlist for combat though.- The ability to see buffs and debuffs on Team members. Although my friends and I use Ventrilo and communicate buff and heal requests vocally, it would help a lot if support characters could see this info.
This would be a really nice feature... but there's all sorts of UI considerations and implementing it could be a royal pain.- A customizeable UI like World Of Warcraft. Although I have a Saitek Gaming Keyboard and can map just about any command or macro to my Command Pad my friends who do not have one are constantly complaining about the lack of UI options. The additional toolbar concept is a good start though and I like your idea of blinking ability buttons to show which ability has been queued up.
While this would be entertaining... with the way MxO is built, there's too much possiblity for exploits and cheating with giving players access to the control mechanisms.
- Lock down UI buttons. When running or kiting it is easier for me to click UI buttons than to move my hand off of the keyboard or mouse to reach numeric keys. However, it is very annoying when I accidently remove an ability from my toolbar when trying to click it. Other games now provide an option to lock down toolbar buttons so that this does not happen.This feature is actually in the game. It's buried somewhere in the options, but it is there. Sorry I can't be more precise... I just haven't looked for it in a while.
While I'm at it I thought I would just add my number one request. I understand that it could not be possible until the new combat system is operational, but here it is. A better crafting system, sorry but some people are spoiled by SWG's. It would be great if a Coder could create an item then add enhancements to it. Imagine crews or factions running around wearing uniforms with the same look but cutomized to suit each person's abilities. I also think it would add a lot more diversity to player looks. Coders could also sell complete matching sets of clothing on the Marketplace, which would be really nice.
Message Edited by Cal on 12-24-2005 12:49 AM
