Othinn1 wrote:
Foxxdie wrote:It all got way too convoluted with little answers and little making sense. Examples?
Foxxdie wrote:
It all got way too convoluted with little answers and little making sense.
Examples?
I refer you to everything after the cinematics stopped. Take care.
Othinn1 wrote:Foxxdie wrote:It all got way too convoluted with little answers and little making sense. Examples?I refer you to everything after the cinematics stopped. Take care.
*shrugs*
GamiSB wrote:
Signs wrote:You're assuming you've been presented with all relevant information. It's true, the Architect knowledge relates specifically to the structure of the simulation, and the Oracle's knowledge relates to the human mind (and soul, potentially), but the Matrix consists of both the simulation and the mind, they are inextricable from each other. And I think it's an important point that our knowledge of the Machines, from whatever perspective it comes in a particular instance, comes mostly from a perspective of being within the Matrix, and the model of the Machines presented in the Matrix is just that: a model. It's what the Machines "think" we can comprehend, based on our own actions as human beings. Simply put, we really don't know what goes on in the Source, and because the nature of The One, like all things in the Matrix originates from the Source and inevitably returns to the Source, we really don't know where it might turn up next, or even what it ultimately is. We get perspectives on the nature of The One, it's a statistical anomaly, it's a state of self-knowledge, it's a spiritual rite, etc. But these are merely interpretations of what is ultimately ungraspable. As the nature of The One is essential to the nature of the Matrix itself, I think it would be bad storytelling NOT to bring the concept back to the forefront of the meta-narrative, in some form, eventually. Granted, this was not the focus of Matrix Online, and this was a good thing, but if another chapter in the Matrix series is ever created, it will have to deal with what becomes of The One, because this idea is so central to the nature of the story. We were given all the information, skepticism only goes as far as "if's" and unless you can show any hole there is no reason to think there is something we don't know. The Architect had no reason to lie to Neo or hide anything from Neo about his purpose and reason for being. With the combination of info given by the Oracle and Architect we learn exactly what is involved with "The One" program and what created it and it's purpose.And while the Matrix is a combination of mind and simulation this doesn't prove any lack of knowledge on the Architects part. As I said he knows all possible causes and effects, he just can't predict which one a person will choose. Secondly our knowledge of the Source and machine thought is irrelevant. The Architect knows exactly what happens and tells us exactly what happens. The One inserts the code he carries into the program which resets the simulation. That program he carries is a onetime deal that is created within the Matrix and inserted into a person of their choice.Which brings us back to square one, the program Neo carried is gone as he died before it could be uploaded. This was even confirmed by both Agent Gray and Pace. Meaning the only thing that could bring about another "One" is gone forever.
Signs wrote:
You're assuming you've been presented with all relevant information. It's true, the Architect knowledge relates specifically to the structure of the simulation, and the Oracle's knowledge relates to the human mind (and soul, potentially), but the Matrix consists of both the simulation and the mind, they are inextricable from each other. And I think it's an important point that our knowledge of the Machines, from whatever perspective it comes in a particular instance, comes mostly from a perspective of being within the Matrix, and the model of the Machines presented in the Matrix is just that: a model. It's what the Machines "think" we can comprehend, based on our own actions as human beings. Simply put, we really don't know what goes on in the Source, and because the nature of The One, like all things in the Matrix originates from the Source and inevitably returns to the Source, we really don't know where it might turn up next, or even what it ultimately is. We get perspectives on the nature of The One, it's a statistical anomaly, it's a state of self-knowledge, it's a spiritual rite, etc. But these are merely interpretations of what is ultimately ungraspable. As the nature of The One is essential to the nature of the Matrix itself, I think it would be bad storytelling NOT to bring the concept back to the forefront of the meta-narrative, in some form, eventually. Granted, this was not the focus of Matrix Online, and this was a good thing, but if another chapter in the Matrix series is ever created, it will have to deal with what becomes of The One, because this idea is so central to the nature of the story.
We were given all the information, skepticism only goes as far as "if's" and unless you can show any hole there is no reason to think there is something we don't know. The Architect had no reason to lie to Neo or hide anything from Neo about his purpose and reason for being. With the combination of info given by the Oracle and Architect we learn exactly what is involved with "The One" program and what created it and it's purpose.
And while the Matrix is a combination of mind and simulation this doesn't prove any lack of knowledge on the Architects part. As I said he knows all possible causes and effects, he just can't predict which one a person will choose. Secondly our knowledge of the Source and machine thought is irrelevant. The Architect knows exactly what happens and tells us exactly what happens. The One inserts the code he carries into the program which resets the simulation. That program he carries is a onetime deal that is created within the Matrix and inserted into a person of their choice.
Which brings us back to square one, the program Neo carried is gone as he died before it could be uploaded. This was even confirmed by both Agent Gray and Pace. Meaning the only thing that could bring about another "One" is gone forever.
All I can say is, presented with the exact same information you have, I have come to radically different conclusions about what the Matrix is. One of the great things about the Matrix meta-narrative is that it is open to a wide variety of interpretations, and it will be interesting to see where the future takes it. I say it "will" be interesting and not it "may" or "might" be interesting because I'll be damned if the Matrix ever fades slowly in the dark while I'm still here.
Just to be clear, though, I don't think the Architect was being deceptive at any point (I don't think he's capable of it). I think that his perspective is more limited than he cares to admit to himself. He (along with the Oracle) is a construction of infinitely complex Machines for the purpose with dealing with humans, beings who are much more finite and limited in nature. The Architect, the Oracle, the Agents... none of them are given all the information. They are the middlemen. The closest we have to the word directly from the Source (literally) about what the Matrix is came with Neo's encounter with Deus Ex Machina, who said, "We don't need you! We need nothing!" and asks, "What do you want?"
Foxxdie wrote:Othinn1 wrote:Foxxdie wrote:It all got way too convoluted with little answers and little making sense. Examples?I refer you to everything after the cinematics stopped. Take care. *shrugs*
In regards to this, aside from the Unlimit arc, I'm quite satisfied with the storyline from 1.1 to 8.3. 9.1 and beyond dragged out far too long and to me seemed to meander off into jump the shark land by 12.1. Although had Rare been able to make it through to the end of Chapter 14, I think it might have resolved itself satisfyingly. Chapter 15 on I cant even concieve of
