mitez wrote:Hackers dont have much damage resistance so we will get beat easilty. Hackers need stun to reduce damage upon them so 1 on 1 hackers will lose as soon as they lose their evade combat. And every1 knows hackers Combat tactics are awful.
Message Edited by >revolt_ on 08-25-2005 04:53 AM
i dont normally post things on the forums, i just read some very interesting points... but for now, i just wanted to throw something in...
Im a hacker (yes, flame me later) and i thoroughly enjoy being one, not because of the power issue, ut for the fact that i know how to use it and im getting better with each fight i have (no im not gonna say im the next neo or some crap like that either...) and i personally think hacker should not be revamped, tweaked or anything... here's why...
the 30 second stun we have, very useful, especially stun 2.0. if i wanted to stun a group of enemies, its perfect! then once i've done that, i can use my abilities in that 30 seconds to maybe kill one of the enemies (im a ballista by the way) so thats great... then the stun wears out and unless i hyperjump away (which im stopping cuz its just lame) i get totally wasted and killed by loads of enemies... that doesnt bother me as such...
the thing that bothers me most is this...
master knife throwers, there's a lot more of them popping up these days... why? because they can overpower ANYONE in the game with their attacks... even logic cannon 2.0 which is a hackers most powrful weapon i believe... the amount of times in PVP i have faced one, and died, i cannot count. my point being that unless you get a MTK offguard and stun him first, ur a dead man...
a MTK can use a stun too... i think it has a 12 second window if i believe (plz correct me if im wrong) and way before those 12 seconds are up, im dead. as far as i can see, a MTK can stun you, tear your ranged defence in to minus numbers, hit you with a few throwing abilities, which one of them i have seen do around 1800 damage, and have u dead in around 5 seconds after stunning you...
not to mention the fact that if u duel one, a friendly duel, they can use their stun throw ability way faster than a hacker can cast a stun ability, which is why i said earlier on that unless you creap up on one (a hacker creeping up on a spy... hmmmm..) then u dont have a chance against one...
now im not saying that it should be nerfed, not at all, its the only thing that can really combat a hacker in this game, but im sure that many others, including MA's and other spies, have experienced death handed on a silver platter within 12 seconds. so if thats not OVERPOWERED (which most people are complaining about on the hacker tree) then i think a lot of people need to go home and rethink this game...
i say leave the hacker tree alone... if u want to play with the spy tree, then by all means make it better for all, just please dont nerf anything on any of the trees available in the game...
thats my pitch... please feel free to flame me now...
Shouldn't the caster be more of a support role in a big battle (like its patcher, buffer and debuffer disciplines already are)?
>revolt_
So they should be weaker? Is that what you are sayin?� :manindifferent:
Message Edited by mandem on 08-25-2005 08:12 AM
What I don't like is that it sounds like interlock is dying. Even though you specifically state that you are not removing interlock, you are decreasing the efficiency of interlock by putting melee combat outside of it. Personally, it's not necessary. Also, the zero-sum concept isn't really that bad. It's refreshing, different, and I like knowing how much I lose a round by instead of just getting a horrific "miss" message. To me, the combat moves more at a pace now where I can understand it, instead of being the cluster *censored* of other MMORPGs. I don't want something "more similar to other MMORPGs". If I wanted that, I'd leave this game and go play something that is another MMORPG. At least there are "bonuses" for interlock, and they better be good enough to keep interlock alive. The moves that interlock provides are always worth the price of admission. I'm still seeing new things in interlock, because combat fluctuates SO much, especially when bullet-time happens in all the different situations I have been in. Where as WoW tends to be.... the same thing... all the time... because it's freeform DPS... and it gets boring... even though it's pretty... Yeah, enough thinking about WoW.
BINGO. Said everything I was thinking. I don't want MxO combat "to be like other MMORPG's." Other MMORPG's bore me. But, without seeing what exactly they plan to do, I will have to reserve judgement
Free-fire melee? PLEASE tell me you have a mini-interlock style animation with this where the hands/feet actually connect. I really don't want to see someone in interlock getting smacked around while another guy stands 5 feet away punching the air but still damaging. It works in other games but, it doesn't work here =( Please don't do it
mandem wrote: Shouldn't the caster be more of a support role in a big battle (like its patcher, buffer and debuffer disciplines already are)? >revolt_ So they should be weaker? Is that what you are sayin?� :manindifferent:Message Edited by mandem on 08-25-2005 08:12 AM
At first. Thanks for these infos. A "concept-roadmap" like this is what the community wanted. And i liked almost everything
But i have mixed feelings about the combat part
what i really like:
You won’t see a level 1-player beating a level-50 player but, as an example, the revisions do make it possible for a group of level-40 players to take down a level-50 through attrition.
What confused me:
The main win is that Interlock fights will be much shorter, with fewer pauses and less prone to breaking game-play.
The combat part is readable in to ways for me.
...with my own words:
1. Well,... this interlock thing is hard to handle, you know. It´s too hard to make interlock fun for group-battles for every class. Operative, Hacker (and coder) .... so let´s make interlock less important.
2. ( and this is what i hope it´s meant like .... )
Well.... it´s very complex to have a working, fair and balanced combat/damage system with multiplayer interlocks. If 3 MA go on 1 player, 1 can go into interlock and the other can fight with their all new , great "free-fire" moves. But that doesn´t mean the unique interlock-system will be less important, because we will give our hackers nice interlock abilities. So, we will see a mix of interlock and free battles with more balance between the trees.
The main win is that Interlock fights will be much shorter
What does that mean?
dave
MxODraconis wrote:thornTree wrote:(and people - it won't make stun useless, I think, but it does seem like you'll have to hit with stun twice in a somewhat limited time-frame in order to get the desired effect).Just a point on that. You know currently once you stun someone they are immune to further STUN for an automatic 40 seconds?
thornTree wrote:(and people - it won't make stun useless, I think, but it does seem like you'll have to hit with stun twice in a somewhat limited time-frame in order to get the desired effect).
Yeah, I do have Interlock concerns as well. If interlock stays as it is in it's form, and they tweak it a bit, while adding some ranged MA abilities, all well and good. Sounds like good additions.
However -
1) Interlock needs to stay in it's current form. I'd say a small minority of the players dislike Interlock. Otherwise they wouldn't be here. It's was a major selling point to this game. So all the changes should remain - is additions.
2) As I mentioned before - SOE has a tendency to have a lot of ideas - implement them very fast - and we're left with gargantuan nerf problems. Balance issues that have to be worked on for a year or more afterwards because the concepts were introduced too quickly. Too much, too fast. I really hope they take this in baby steps.
3) I believe they mentioned something in regards to the mission system. "Obviously the Mission system is what needs work". Granted. The same ol' Assasination / Courier / etc missions after a while become boring. But funny how the lack of any live events was mentioned. One or two comments have been made in the past regarding live events by SOE. Then the subject is just dropped and we see these areas pop up in the forums. It's as if they believe that if they mention it once or twice, and then drop the subject entirely - it will just go away in the player community. Which it won't. We remember great Live Events (The Race for Neo) that were NOT transitory in nature as SOE seems to believe LE's are. WoW was mentioned. The simple truth of the matter is this.. People are becoming bored with MMO's. They want a genuine MMORPG. A world they feel involved with, that they can make a difference in. Storyline arc'd LE's provide that, thus they are not transitory. Otherwise all that is going to happen is what happens in the MMO world right now. People just jump from game to game, losing interest after 3-6 months.
I mean, when Morpheus, The Oracle, Seraph, Flood, Niobe or others met with us privately and interacted with us, how long afterward were all of us talking about it? God, they could seriously slow down implementation of the mechanical aspects slowly over time so that we wouldn't be hit with huge nerf balance problems, and add just a few characters to just to interact with. Phew would that go a long way in settling everyone down. The "action / scenery content" folks would be appeased, as well as their other market - the "LE" market who is looking for more in an MMORPG than just the next level and/or ability.
Message Edited by noVus on 08-25-2005 08:32 AM
