[7.1.5] I'd say we get along...very well - Vector - 4/16/07

**GoDGiVeR**

Cypherites, like Morpheus to some extent, are a relict of the old days. Why relict? Because they have no place here.
But they do have a place here. They are a mechanism of control for the Machines. They are dolls in their hands, tools of their work. They are needed to keep the balance, so it seems. The Machines don't do that out of malicious intent but out of efficiency, order. Is it right? No, but the Machines don't care because they can't and there'll always be people like Cypher, no avail.

These times do not need people like Cypherites, though. These are uneasy times, cold war. We are in a phase of transition. Groups like the Cypherites spawn in such a phase, just like EPN. Both cause trouble. Both groups fight at two sides of a rope. The Cypherites to pull us back into the cycle and the EPNs try to break out of it, further than we already are.
Of course, if such a thing hasn't happened before, who knows?

In the end the EPNs will realize that some of their tactics will just give more power to the other side or at some point they'll realize that by pulling the rope in their direction, we all end up the same as it was before. Two sides, one ultimate goal. What If one side let's go? The outcome will be the same. Only if both sides let go compromise can be achieved, a "better" future, so to say.

The transistion is hard, a long time will pass by until the next phase starts. Will it be war? Will it be peace? We all play our part. In the end, all pull at the rope, it's just that the EPN and CYPH are at the far and the opposite end of the rope and we in between.

The choice is ours but of course, such a thing as 'choice' does not exist.

**Illyria22**

GamiSB wrote:

*cough*
Agent Gray: Operative, the Zionite known as Cryptos was overwritten by a Machine program years ago. This program's purpose was to form a group of humans dedicated to the task of preventing Zion from destabilizing the System by awakening more than the allotted 1% of the Matrix' population.

If Zion hadn't tried to awaken those who shouldn't have been, the Cypherite group would never have been formed.

Illyria

Skill · 04/19/2007 14:41:19

Illyria22 wrote:

GamiSB wrote:
*cough*
Agent Gray: Operative, the Zionite known as Cryptos was overwritten by a Machine program years ago. This program's purpose was to form a group of humans dedicated to the task of preventing Zion from destabilizing the System by awakening more than the allotted 1% of the Matrix' population.

If Zion hadn't tried to awaken those who shouldn't have been, the Cypherite group would never have been formed.

Illyria

Shouldn't have been? Um they took the red pill by their own choice. Are you trying to say that some self-imposed "limit" is adequate reason to take away their choice?

Edit: Hey, it's SaintDaniel!

Been a while.

**r3spon5e**

Illyria22 wrote:

GamiSB wrote:
*cough*
Agent Gray: Operative, the Zionite known as Cryptos was overwritten by a Machine program years ago. This program's purpose was to form a group of humans dedicated to the task of preventing Zion from destabilizing the System by awakening more than the allotted 1% of the Matrix' population.

If Zion hadn't tried to awaken those who shouldn't have been, the Cypherite group would never have been formed.

Illyria

Zion has the right to awaken all redpills who are ready. It's the founding principle of the Truce the Architect himself agreed to Illyria. If you want to talk about a group who shouldn't be awakening redpills, turn your attention to EPN. Otherwise you're going to have to produce the amendment to the truce we all missed about how Zion is not allowed to awaken redpills.

Zion has the right and does it right. The Machines lie and violate the Truce without ever attempting to work with Zion in good faith. End of story.

Time for you to go see how much you can recycle from that heap of scrap metal the General just made out of your Sentinals. When you're done with that, maybe you'll start thinking about working together towards peace. I'm not holding my breath, but the door is still open... for now.

**Illyria22** · 04/19/2007 15:11:48

Skill wrote:

Shouldn't have been? Um they took the red pill by their own choice. Are you trying to say that some self-imposed "limit" is adequate reason to take away their choice?

The limit isn't a random number that was decided on, it's the percentage of bluepills that will reject the simulation. The other 99% are those whose subconscious choice was to accept it. As long as you awaken those who are actually ready for it, there won't be a problem.

Illyria

Iovai

Illyria22 wrote:

Skill wrote:
Shouldn't have been? Um they took the red pill by their own choice. Are you trying to say that some self-imposed "limit" is adequate reason to take away their choice?

The limit isn't a random number that was decided on, it's the percentage of bluepills that will reject the simulation. The other 99% are those whose subconscious choice was to accept it. As long as you awaken those who are actually ready for it, there won't be a problem.

Illyria

That should be that hard to understand. But it is.

Go figure, Puppet.

**GamiSB** · 04/19/2007 15:40:46

I think it was Neoteny eariler that pointed out that what concerns the leaders of Zion is the fact that rather then speaking with Zion about the issue of freeing minds that may not be ready, the Machines insted set up an ellabrate system that has cost Zion many soliders both in the real and in the Matrix.

As for the overwriteing of Cryptos. Personly I glad you did it. That you turned him from a fanatic into something more "peaceful". The problem however is that there was more done then just Cryptos. Both unawakend and possibly potentials bluepills as well as freed Zion opertives have been victums to the Machines and thats where the concern is.

**r3spon5e** · 04/19/2007 15:44:00

Illyria22 wrote:

Skill wrote:
Shouldn't have been? Um they took the red pill by their own choice. Are you trying to say that some self-imposed "limit" is adequate reason to take away their choice?

The limit isn't a random number that was decided on, it's the percentage of bluepills that will reject the simulation. The other 99% are those whose subconscious choice was to accept it. As long as you awaken those who are actually ready for it, there won't be a problem.

Illyria

The limit has nothing to do with how many redpills will reject the simulation. The limit is what the Machines consider acceptable to maintianing the stability of the simulation. Zion awakens all who are ready to reject the simulation and none who aren't. That is Zion's right by the terms of the Truce as agreed upon by the Architect himself. If the limit were as you say, then there wouldn't be a problem because it simply wouldn't be possible to awaken more than 1% if they weren't ready to reject the simulation.

You must be reading Saddakhan's mindless drivel again.

And yes Gamis, that is exactly the problem. The Machines lack the capacity to work with Zion in good faith regarding the terms of the Truce. They find it more efficient to violate the Truce at will than to make the kind of efforts with Zion that can lead to a real peace.

**Illyria22**

r3spon5e wrote:

The limit has nothing to do with how many redpills will reject the simulation. The limit is what the Machines consider acceptable to maintianing the stability of the simulation.

OOC:

You need to rewatch the movies. 1% was the number given.

r3spon5e wrote:

You must be reading Saddakhan's mindless drivel again.

IC:

May I ask why you are bringing Sattakan into this again?

Illyria

ThePigeonKing

You have to keep in mind that if the Machines really wanted to break the truce and kill redpills, they wouldn't do it by sneaking around and wasting time by overwriting a Jamaican dude. They'd do it, and do it as fast as they possibly can.

You may all get off of your soap boxes now.

Skill

ThePigeonKing wrote:

You have to keep in mind that if the Machines really wanted to break the truce and kill redpills, they wouldn't do it by sneaking around and wasting time by overwriting a Jamaican dude. They'd do it, and do it as fast as they possibly can.

You may all get off of your soap boxes now.

Personally I think they want to have war, but they don't want it to look like their fault for whatever reason.

**Yasamuu**

Skill wrote:

ThePigeonKing wrote:
You have to keep in mind that if the Machines really wanted to break the truce and kill redpills, they wouldn't do it by sneaking around and wasting time by overwriting a Jamaican dude. They'd do it, and do it as fast as they possibly can.

You may all get off of your soap boxes now.

Personally I think they want to have war, but they don't want it to look like their fault for whatever reason.

In all honesty, who would be left if The Machines wiped everyone out? I doubt they'd care much for PR.

Skill

Illyria22 wrote:

r3spon5e wrote:
The limit has nothing to do with how many redpills will reject the simulation. The limit is what the Machines consider acceptable to maintianing the stability of the simulation.

OOC:
You need to rewatch the movies. 1% was the number given.
IC:
The premise is that that was a lie.

r3spon5e wrote:

You must be reading Saddakhan's mindless drivel again.
IC:
May I ask why you are bringing Sattakan into this again?

Illyria

**Illyria22**

Skill wrote:

The premise is that that was a lie.

If that was the case, there would be mass crop failures again...which occurred in the first and second versions of the Matrix, because so many people rejected them.

Illyria

Skill

Illyria22 wrote:

Skill wrote:
The premise is that that was a lie.

If that was the case, there would be mass crop failures again...which occurred in the first and second versions of the Matrix, because so many people rejected them.

Illyria

Which is why i guess they would have said 1%, even if it IS wrong.

((Okay are you sure it's 1% he said anyway? Wikipedia said it's 0.1% or something but they sometimes have a bad rep for misinformation :/ ))