It's says a lot when even Procurator tells you to chill when it comes to hating on Cyphs!  LOL

In all seriousness though, I don't care much for Cypherites for the same reasons that many other machinists don't.  However, in all their uselessness, everyone deserves the right to function within a group of like-minded souls.  Who are we to judge how unnecessary they are when they themselves firmly believe they have purpose and reason to band together.

Cypherites have proven to be useful from time to time.  While I don't particularly care for their methods or hobbies, they have proven to be of some benefit to the Machines.  Otherwise, why would they keep them around?  In the end, there is a reason the Cypherites are similar to Machinists and EPN with Zion.  It is because they are splinter groups that its natural that they have those similarities but its in how they execute those ideas that separates them greatly.

EPN and Cypherites are the radicals and their acts reflect it.  They have a reason to be and it's not within our rights to tell them different.

Procurator, nope, you still don't get it and entirely missed my point. Try again, thanks for paying. -bzzzz-

Garu wrote:

It's says a lot when even Procurator tells you to chill when it comes to hating on Cyphs!  LOL

In all seriousness though, I don't care much for Cypherites for the same reasons that many other machinists don't.  However, in all their uselessness, everyone deserves the right to function within a group of like-minded souls.  Who are we to judge how unnecessary they are when they themselves firmly believe they have purpose and reason to band together.

Cypherites have proven to be useful from time to time.  While I don't particularly care for their methods or hobbies, they have proven to be of some benefit to the Machines.  Otherwise, why would they keep them around?  In the end, there is a reason the Cypherites are similar to Machinists and EPN with Zion.  It is because they are splinter groups that its natural that they have those similarities but its in how they execute those ideas that separates them greatly.

EPN and Cypherites are the radicals and their acts reflect it.  They have a reason to be and it's not within our rights to tell them different.

Someone who understands.

Wrong. Under the Truce they were radical organizations. Whereas before, it was EPN's job to awaken everyone and fight the Machines. Now, that is all of Zion's mission. Before the Truce ended, it was the CYPH's job to keep us from awakening any more bluepills and to fight Zion on behalf of the Machines. Now that there is open hostilities, this covertness is no longer needed.

Without the Truce, the mission of these radical groups becomes the mission of the parent orgs. So, having two extra orgs for Rarebit to write about and care for in the storyline is an unnecessary burden that could be using up valuable creativity. I think if it were just back to three orgs (with more dynamic and variety in the factions within those orgs), the storyline would improve even more.

It's crazy to think that Zion, knowing what they are up against, would not want this fairly large group of like minded individuals back with them. And it's equally ludicrous that, under these conditions, the Machines wouls not want to excercise more control over a group that already works for them. 

Wrong. Under the Truce they were radical organizations. Whereas before, it was EPN's job to awaken everyone and fight the Machines. Now, that is all of Zion's mission. Before the Truce ended, it was the CYPH's job to keep us from awakening any more bluepills and to fight Zion on behalf of the Machines. Now that there is open hostilities, this covertness is no longer needed.

Without the Truce, the mission of these radical groups becomes the mission of the parent orgs. So, having two extra orgs for Rarebit to write about and care for in the storyline is an unnecessary burden that could be using up valuable creativity. I think if it were just back to three orgs (with more dynamic and variety in the factions within those orgs), the storyline would improve even more.

It's crazy to think that Zion, knowing what they are up against, would not want this fairly large group of like minded individuals back with them. And it's equally ludicrous that, under these conditions, the Machines wouls not want to excercise more control over a group that already works for them. 

I couldn't disagree more. While the Machines once exercised controll over Cryptos, now that he's no longer overwritten, he's acting of his own free will. Add to that the instability of Veil, and the fact that reinsertion does not exist, the Cypherites have every logical reason to be a seperate entity. Especially considering a very... disloyal... action by Veil in a recent Mero crit. 

 Similairly, EPN's attempt to sabotage the power lines wasn't something Zion Command deemed nessecary - only EPN ships participated. They want to help Zion, but they're the ones deciding how.

The paths may be similair, but the motivations differ. Here's how I see it:

Machine Motivation for fighting zion/epn and minimizing awakenings : Matrix Stability, maintaining their power source (untill the Mero crits say otherwise, anyway).

Cypherites: Revenge for being awakened, preventing others from experiencing what they view as an inferior life, pay from the Machines.

 Zion Motivation for fighting Machines/Cyphs, awakening humans: Protecting their city, gaining recruits to continue the fight and free others, ensuring a future for free humanity.

EPN: Freeing people because it's the right thing to do / what they think Neo would want them to do. They fight those that would prevent this from granting the freedom they seek to spread.

Wrong. Under the Truce they were radical organizations.

It's not wrong, it's a matter of opinion based on the belief that these organizations are still very radical when compared to their parent.  Case in point, Machinists are exactly thrilled with the Truce being absolved.  Cypherites are revelling in it.  EPN seems to want to strike against the Machines while Zion has yet to reveal any plans to do so yet.

Things may change in the future but as of now, these groups have their own purpose and agendas. 

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

Wrong. Under the Truce they were radical organizations.

It's not wrong, it's a matter of opinion based on the belief that these organizations are still very radical when compared to their parent.  Case in point, Machinists are exactly thrilled with the Truce being absolved.  Cypherites are revelling in it.  EPN seems to want to strike against the Machines while Zion has yet to reveal any plans to do so yet.

Things may change in the future but as of now, these groups have their own purpose and agendas. 

Fair enough.

I still think the story would be better with just three orgs to worry about.

Machinists are exactly thrilled with the Truce being absolved

 

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

Okay, a lot of people have expressed their feelings about whether these orgs should stay or go.

But, I hear a lot of "I (like/don't like) X org)." What I don't hear much of is, do these splinter orgs have a mission? Does this mission differentiate the sub-org from the parent org enough to warrant keeping them around?

Could we get better storylines for three orgs rather than five? Would the game be improved?

Those are the questions I'd like to see answered.

In my opinion, I think the game, overall, would be better with just the three orgs. I don't think the sub-orgs have a good enough mission to keep them. I like being EPN; it makes me stand out in a crowd of Zionists. But, not so much anymore because even this sub-org has been 'watered down' now.

Whether I like it or not doesn't necessarily mean it's good for the game, though.

Trust me, I would LOVE to see the Cyph Org as well as the EPN Org. get their own mission, their own controller, (I want Veil to be our controller), if the Devs actually made us into REAL orgs instead of just splinters, then I would be as happy as a pig in slop.  However, as it's been said from time and time again, due to limited time and limited Dev powers, the Cypherite Organization and the EPN Organization will never become real orgs, just splinter orgs.  Which means every time I do a critical mission, I'll have to listen to Gray's monotone voice, and it's gotten old a long time ago.

 Yes, and those Dev's said that if they did make Cypherite and EPN orgs, then they would have to cut back on Luggables. All fine and good but, seriously, Don't some, if not most, find luggables boring? I mean it's like receiving a toy, but then you get bored with it and throw it away. Now new orgs, not only is it great for RP, but many are demanding it. I heard the demand for new orgs more often than I do for luggables.

Seriously, they treat the EPN and Cypherite orgs like sidelines when they are not. I mean take the Recent Cypherite sabotage in Zion or the Attempted attack on The Power Lines Feeding The Machine City Power, these do not look like sideline consequences. They should be made Real Orgs, might even give this game a boost. I know this is off topic But I think this would give EPN and the Cypherites much more depth and purpose.

It wasn't luggables, that was just an example. They'd have to scale back just about all non-critical mission new content (quests, etc) instead. I'd love to see fully implemented Cyph/EPN orgs... but at the cost of other new things to do, I don't think its worth it at this time.

Any time would be good to have new orgs - if it won't mean cutting back on things like critical missions. Which at this point (and until MxO closes, presumably) isn't the case.

Garu wrote:

Machinists are exactly thrilled with the Truce being absolved

 

I assume you meant aren't. " width="15" height="15" />

Wrong. Under the Truce they were radical organizations. Whereas before, it was EPN's job to awaken everyone and fight the Machines. Now, that is all of Zion's mission. Before the Truce ended, it was the CYPH's job to keep us from awakening any more bluepills and to fight Zion on behalf of the Machines. Now that there is open hostilities, this covertness is no longer needed.

Without the Truce, the mission of these radical groups becomes the mission of the parent orgs. So, having two extra orgs for Rarebit to write about and care for in the storyline is an unnecessary burden that could be using up valuable creativity. I think if it were just back to three orgs (with more dynamic and variety in the factions within those orgs), the storyline would improve even more.

It's crazy to think that Zion, knowing what they are up against, would not want this fairly large group of like minded individuals back with them. And it's equally ludicrous that, under these conditions, the Machines would not want to excercise more control over a group that already works for them.