Strength of Hackers in interlock

Bitek

Is it just me, or has anyone noticed that, for a class that is not supposed to be strong in interlock, Hackers are way too powerful atm? The Devs have stated repeatedly that the Hackers job is to provide support to the interlock classes, and to keep the interlockers (MAs and Duelists) at arms length, trying to kill them at a distance, whereas the job of the interlocker is to stay alive, get the Hacker into interlock and crush him like a grape. I am consistently being wiped out by hackers in interlock (I'm a Duelist) and it's beginning to tick me off a little. I have Hyperdeflect running continuously, and my Viral Resistance is somewhere in the region of 228 when I'm fighting them ( i have a specific "Fighting Hackers" clothing macro), so why am I taking damage of 300+ each time they hit? More to the point I am getting one hit in to their two, so the reuse timers on some of those ridiculously powerful abs are a little low to say the least. I don't want this to sound like sour grapes, cos it's not. I have looked at the problem for a while now, and tried to figure several ways around it with attribute tweaks and different clothing etc etc. I'm sure some Hackers out there are going to flame this, but look at it this way, whereas I as a Duelist can hit you when you're up to 16 metres away, the average MA can't do that, so the Hacker can snot you at a distance AND do a stupid amount of damage close in. You can't have it both ways. Hacker is not supposed to be an interlock class. I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed this or felt the same way.

**Ntrails**

All I know is that as a hacker I usually die in interlock pretty quick. But then I am always on withdraw - so not really trying to stay in.

**Renesis13B**

They are definately too strong in interlock and ive been saying this since the ep server. They do get a penalty in interlock but I dont feel its enough. The other problem is with their ability timers and how they work in interlock. They can stack attacks back to back when other trees cant. Im sure the hackers will jump in on this post and start flaming away but im glad you posted this.

Ill also mention the hyper abilites like hyper-deflect dont have any effect when 2 people use specials in interlock. Your accuracy roll decides who wins that roll and not your defense.

Message Edited by Renesis13B on 04-13-2006 03:59 PM
Message edited by Renesis13B on 04/13/2006 11:59:34.

**Renesis13B**

Heres a list of topics discussing this:

link

link

**Wendigo**

I think the problem is Upgrade Attacks. My farm loadout
(Howitzer/Destroyer) does not have Upgrade Attacks, and gets trounced
by anything that cons with a color other than gray. Granted I
have only 8 Reason, but I have heard reports of people with the same
Reason easily soloing the GPS mission, the Agent mission, and the last
mission of PB arc 4. The difference between us? Upgrade
Attacks. Because of the zero-sum nature of hacks in interlock,
the extra accuracy from Upgrade Attacks make hacks very hard to stop,
even if only for twenty seconds.

Hackers can, and do get killed in PvP, but it usually takes a gang.

cryshal

so begins another episode of The Krytical & Renesis Show. sans kryt, of course.

as usual, one person gets owned by loadout X and goes running to the forum to cry about it. i play hacker about 80% of the time, as many ppl know. when i get owned (again and again AND AGAIN, by KGM) do you hear me crying about it? nope, im asking for things like npcs not standing in doorways.

hacker has been nerfed quite enough. if you suck, that doesnt mean hackers are too strong, it means you have a flaw/weakness. welcome to the club =D one thing that you probly didnt take into account is initiative. since all hacker moves are specials (for some stupid reason), your special vs any hacker move = initiative. and since hackers suck in interlock most of the time (they really do.. you simply got beaten, thats all) theyre more likely to get to 50% health first, which is when the desperation ab really kicks in. plus, upgrade attacks is a good boost to accuracy, but not for very long at all. its usable in interlock, and it better be, cuz 2 very powerful ballista abs (for example) cant be used in interlock at all.

im sure youd be mildly annoyed if you couldnt use moves like EFK, which can be used back to back.

something else to consider, defense and resistance are 2 very different things. ill take defense over resistance any day. im old fashioned, id rather not get hit to begin with =P its possible your resistance is pretty good and your defense sux. review the numbers and try again, as did we all =)

**Renesis13B**

Ive done all the pbox missions with only 89 viral accuracy. I didnt even need upgrade attacks. The radius bug no doubt made it much easier but it will still be easy once thats fixed. I have no problem landing attacks.

As far as the boxes themselves go read this post and see just how overpowered viral attacks are right now. 2 people can complete the pbox 4 box using howitzer. Any other tree wouldnt stand a chance with only 2 people.

Cryshal you continue to ignore the facts.

Bitek

Thankyou Cryshal for your snarky response. I didn't start this thread to A) Whine or to B) trade insults with someone I don't know. Had you read the post properly, you would see that I'm asking questions. I didn't just get beaten once I got annihilated several times over a period of several days and in that time I tried to figure out a way around the problem using several solutions. This is the first time that I have used this forum in this way. I don't whine ingame, I don't moan, I just get on with it and try to have a good time. The person doing 90% of the damage to me is a Hacker who quite cheerfully admits that the tree is overpowered in interlock, and for a non-interlock class to completely destroy an interlock specialist means the game is slightly out of whack. This is a new Combat System, and as such there are going to be issues with it for the next few months I would imagine. This will mean some trees are going to dominate in areas they shouldn't. Yes we all want our characters to do well in combat, but not to the point where everything that goes up against you dies. Where is the balance in that? I am pointing out that Hacker is a non interlock class and is currently way overpowered in interlock. If you want to fight in interlock, the try MA or Duelist. As I said before, you shouldn't be able to have it both ways. Strengths and weaknesses, that's what it's about, and at the moment, I can't see that hacker has any weaknesses.

Message Edited by Bitek on 04-14-2006 01:52 AM

Message Edited by Bitek on 04-14-2006 01:52 AM
Message edited by Bitek on 04/14/2006 00:52:58.

cryshal

any so-called facts here are suspect at best. to begin with, i think the devs may have finally wised up about any such nerfing that you seem to need in order to continue to exist.. otherwise they would have gonzo'd spy sooner. the devs have clearly said that a handful of exchanges means nothing, you need about 1000 turns round the block for the numbers to really show anything. there are some 'issues' with karate and aikido that i think are geniune but at the last minute i kept it all to myself considering i havent made any such extended test run. and since you havent either.. go fight a hacker in interlock one thousand times. keep careful records and screenshots and blahblah.. and then maybe.

the current differences in the classes between now and before cr2 are mostly due to the effects you get from stats. theyre supposed to mean something and they do. if a hacker is powerful its cuz they sacrificed other things in other areas, for which they SHOULD get a nice bonus to whatever. i dont see you ppl complaining about the same issue in gunner or ma. do you know how good the 'dodge' is on a gunner with max perception? omgwtfhax!#$ nerf the duelists-!

**Renesis13B**

This is about hackers in interlock not ranged attacks. Ranged attacks I have no problem with. My 27 belief and hyper-deflect are good enough for that but they dont help me in interlock. Im better off fighting a hacker ranged as a duelist than I am interlocking one. It should be the other way around.

Bitek

My point exactly Ren.

Bitek

Oh, and by the way Cryshal, if you feel the need to make snarky comments all the time, maybe you'd best keep your opinions to yourself. "Facts suspect at best"? *CENSORED* is that all about? I have no need to embelish the facts, and anyone who knows me will tell you that isn't the way I do business. I went several days before bringing this up, and for the 3rd time, I spent a considerable amount of time looking at the problem and thinking ways around it. This is a genuine concern of mine. I don't mind getting beaten, my ego isn't so huge as to deny the fact it could ever happen to me. I do get beaten frequently, but it's usually a close run thing (unless it's a full-on Merv gank). What bothers me is (and read this carefully) a non-interlock class is dominating in interlock against interlock specialist. Surely that can't be right.

Message Edited by Bitek on 04-14-2006 09:55 AM
Message edited by Bitek on 04/14/2006 08:55:56.

**Bayamos**

When I get ILed, I almost always die unless I can roll out.

If you're getting killed by hackers in IL, you're doing something wrong.

**Renesis13B**

If your a hacker getting killed in interlock your doing something wrong.

**sonofthree**

If the hacker preps you with debuffs and before interlock damage (vector and DoTlvl 4 and maybe taking a quarter of your health with free attack hacks before hand for example) before he interlocks you and he has the max VA and can get stuns off without upgrade attacks then yes he can win against you in interlock, but the 20 second burst is by no means instadeath; it's not enough time to completely destroy someone, it is enough to finish someone off who you have already been working on. I seriously doubt that you where killed by a hacker in those 20 seconds without having gone into interlock already damaged or debuffed or both. The gamble with interlock hacking is...if we don't kill you fast once we get you there we're dead in the water, or crushed like a grape as you said, 20 seconds isn't really that long of a time.....

But as with most of these "imballance" threads it comes down to class envy. No the duelist tree has no burst damage abilities like the hackers do, but they have good rolls in and out of interlock AND consistant damage. That's what the class is about, consistancy. Play your class to its strengths.

Message Edited by ibewarped on 04-14-2006 12:58 PM
Message edited by sonofthree on 04/14/2006 11:58:47.