Humans as Power? Impossible!

**psilody** · 11/10/2007 19:17:39

ZionOS ccc9
Sunday October 21 , 1999

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Greetings Fellow Operatives

The following is an analysis I have been developing on my own for quite some time. It concerns the relationship between Machines and Humans, especially in regards to our potential use as a power supply. I am not aware of any one else having already developed a similar analysis, but it may be that someone greater knowledge has already addressed this issue. However, I have not yet found any evidence in Zion archives that this is the case. Furthermore, The Merovingians recent investigations on the subject suggests to me that it may be have become an area of increased interest.

Even as a Redpill, I was always fascinated with the workings of our Universe, especially of physics and biology. My *hobbies* in my former life led me to an interest in brain chemistry, and by extension biological science and the physical nature of reality. Of course, in retrospect, all of the information I gleaned within the simulation itself must be regarded as suspect. However, I took it upon my self to find out whether our own scientists in the Real had corroborated many things that I considered "scientific facts", And to my surprise found that largely they had. I would speculate that it was far more efficient for the Machines to copy books we had already written, than write entirely new ones. This does not leave out the possibility that things may be edited, but my Real experiences seem to confirm that the following is based on a valid scientific footing.

To start with, there are laws regarding the behavior of energy in our universe, such as the Laws of Thermodynamics. These laws state, among other things, that energy in our universe can be neither created nor destroyed. It can only be transferred from one form to another. We can create electricity, but only by transferring it from some other source, which in turn was also recycling it. Zion, for instance, draws its electricity from GeoThermal sources.

The Machines supposedly draw theirs from us, human beings. However, in order for humans to produce energy, they must in turn draw it from somewhere, and that somewhere is food. It is purported that the Machines fed us (feed bluepills) our dead. While this is certainly true (as the Machines are quite efficient), there is a problem here with the quantity of food thus produced.

Think about like this: How many bowls of that goop do we eat a day? Two, three? While calories would be more accurate, lets simplify and look simply at mass. I would say I probably eat at least a half pound of food a day. In a year, that would be 180 pounds of food! How much does the average human weigh? This may be hard to determine for the pod-bound, but the average clearly can't exceed 200 lbs. As such it would take one dead human every year to feed each live human. This leads to population dynamics that are impossibly unstable. Think about this:

If the Matrix started with 1000 adults, 500 would have to die the first year to feed the remainder, 250 the second year, etc. In ten years noone would be left.Even if we count births, and even if there were 500 a year, they are babies lacking sufficent mass to contribute significantly. And by the time they are ten, all the adults would be dead!

So, In order to have a stable population within the Matrix the machines MUST be feeding us something other than our own dead. In fact, it seems probable that MOST of the food comes from another source.If that is the case, it begs the question:

If the Machines have the energy to produce that much food, WHY DO THEY NEED US??

The ramifications of this analysis, if true, are obviously considerable and diverse. At this point we could only speculate, and wildly at that. Yet perhaps it is time to investigate this possibilty. Certainly, the Merovingian believes thi is the case. As it could change the entire relationship between the various Factions, I feel it must be explored.

I hope that this report will serve to catalyze research and action in this area.

Thank you for your time and consideration

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SkyBruin-ML

Interesting thoughts psilody,

Perhaps looking at Redpill's own food productions methods may give some insight to how the machines feed their population.

What are the current production methods of our food? Did we learn this method from the machines in some manner?

Certainly if we did that may explain the main source of food for the bluepills, suplimented with the "recylced" remains of dead bulepills.

**Croesis** · 10/21/2007 12:46:37

What you have to take into account is that this theory depends on the Machines using Human as energy sources alone, from day one. We have no firm accounts but there were probably still energy sources available to the Machines that would have allowed them to start providing nutrients, growing food until Human bluepill power had built up enough to maintain their own system.

An efficient combustion engine provides more electricity than required to maintain it's cycle but requires a kickstart for the combustion process to begin. The system is the engine, bluepills are the fuel, as long as there is enough fuel the engine will keep running. Power created goes into maintaining the Simulation and nutrent/food production and surplus power goes into the system to the Machines.

These Machines may have learnt from our knowledge but they have probably refined this knowledge and have probably learnt things about the Universe that Humans hadn't even though of. It is ridiculous to think that Humans had learnt and know the exact and definitive laws by the time the war started. Even a couple of Einstein's theories, which some took for gospel for a long time, were suggested and in small cases proved as wrong by scientists by the end of the 20th century. Do not take everything for granted.

Also I don't doubt that the Machines are using other power sources but these alone would not be able to sustain them all as they are right now. So as far as I see it, Humans as the main source of power is entirely possible.

LordInqubus · 10/21/2007 12:37:46

"Bull****!"

"No. Pig ****."

"What?"

"Pig ****. The lights, the motors, the vehicles, all run by a high-powered gas called methane. And methane cometh from pig ****. "

heh heh

**psilody** · 11/10/2007 19:19:41

SKyBruin- with Zions placement deep underground, we use Geothremal energy for elcetricity etc. We convert this too light in order gorw plants and food.

However, Zion HAS to grow food. It is explicitly a city of humans and humans require food. The Machines do not need food, they need electricity.

which leads to

Croesus- the issue here is conservation of energy from process to process. We are told the Machines use fusion, and I assume they may also use geothermal, wind, tidal, any number of other energy sources.

But to fuel humans, this energy must be converted from form to form. electricity must make light, light must make plant matter, humans metabolize.

even if the machines have a perfect conservation system (that is no energy is lost converting electric to light to food to human) they cannot get more energy OUT of the System than is put IN.

So, if they have the energy to put in to us, Why not just use that energy to power themselves? Why waste time with a whole elaborate system for keeping humans alive? The only excess energy they could harvest would be a result of the dead, and this is necessarily a nominal quantity, given the population dynamic. Most likely it would barely cover the expenditure in building and maintaining the system.

Clearly, the Matrix exists. But I can see no way that its PURPOSE can be the production of electricity.

((OK now ooc, while ive been a ware of this discrepency for a while, Ive alway just figured *nod, wink, sci-fi and all that* but lately the storyline has explicitly moved towards exploring the issue of humans as energy. as such i felt it was time to try and get some discussion on this.

Finally LordUnqubus- LMAO! I love it! with how much metheane i produce, i could power the whole thing myself. But seriously that methane is still an energetic byproduct of the process, and its output cannot exceed its input.))

**PS10N**

Hey Councilor Hammond, what's for dinner?!

YUM-YUM!

**Croesis** · 10/21/2007 13:29:56

psilody wrote:

So, if they have the energy to put in to us, Why not just use that energy to power themselves? Why waste time with a whole elaborate system for keeping humans alive?

I think what you are forgetting is that the entire system is there for control of Humankind. Humankind tried to destroy the Machines but they lost. The Machines didn't want to wipe out the entire human race, their creators if you will, but it would have been too dangerous to allow them to continue to attack the Machines. Even if what was left of the Human population wasn't going to attack the Machines, they would most likely have died out due to radiation fallout, lack of food etc...

Personally I feel that the Machines are waiting for the day when Humankind has evolved past its savage instincts and are ready to live in peace with the Machines, but until then they have to be kept and cared for somewhere.

Your theories are based upon Human understanding of the universe something which the Machines, in their computational power could have disproved. What you are talking about is what we as Humans have learnt and what we have been told, information gained from Machine sources. Information which may not be complete or even true for some reason or another.

((I've actually been waiting for a question like this to turn up. I'm aware of the idea about conservation of energy etc... but I also feel that I do not believe that Humankind will ever have the definitive explanation for anything. Close to it yeah, but not exact.))

**PS10N**

This isn't a complete debate or even a stance, just a statement based on widely accepted information. The machines utilize the bio-electric, neural, thermal and kinetic energies of the human bodies combined with a form of fusion. (More than just heat from bodies, which many often erroneously assert.) Efficiently harvested and transfered, it is more than enough for their needs. The bulk of their power comes from the fusion and the bioelectric, neural, thermal and kinetic energies from human bodies are used merely to regulate the fusion in some way. As for feeding the bluepills, the machines can cultivate and harvest fungus as we do, and they are capable of synthesizing proteins, amino acids, vitamins and minerals just as we do from whatever sources still exist subterraneanly or on the surface. Adding the dead as an intravenous supplement is just calculated efficiency.

A study of the machines from the engineering level of Old Zion (nearly all of which were disassembled, moved and reassembled in New Zion) will reveal exactly the kind of machinery needed to keep a third of a million people alive. What the Machines have is far more sophisticated. In a strange sort of way, we all are dependent on on fungus.

**PS10N** · 10/21/2007 14:04:28

"Personally I feel that the Machines are waiting for the day when Humankind has evolved past its savage instincts and are ready to live in peace with the Machines, but until then they have to be kept and cared for somewhere."

The fact that they savagely murder all those not under their direct control proves that they have no such concept as peace. (Which is incidentally why Neo was and continues to be a complete enigma to them.) It also shows your statement to be inept, as the genocidal eradication of all non-grown humanity prevents any evolution from taking place. Have the Machines so twisted you that you actually state 1 = 0 and expect us to swallow it?

**Croesis** · 10/21/2007 15:13:28

PS10N wrote:

The fact that they savagely murder all those not under their direct control proves that they have no such concept as peace. (Which is incidentally why Neo was and continues to be a complete enigma to them.) It also shows your statement to be inept, as the genocidal eradication of all non-grown humanity prevents any evolution from taking place. Have the Machines so twisted you that you actually state 1 = 0 and expect us to swallow it?

The Machines were quite happy to maintain the truce as long as Zion was. The fact that Zion did something that the Machines perceived of as a move against them and when the Machines challenged their recruitment of the 1%, Zion decided to go straight for hostilities rather than negotiation. That shows me that many in Zion have no concept of peace. If the Machines have no concept of peace, they wouldn't have petitioned to join the UN and they wouldn't have followed the truce after Neo gave his life.

What I say and believe is independent of Machine influence, it is my opinion, as it was when I first awoke to the truth. I don't expect you to swallow it at all, I have come to be aware that you are not open to the truth, just the half truth that Zion forces down your throat. While many from Zion seek their own truth and become aware of the layers of truth and control, it seems to me that you are a fervent follower of the initial teachings of Zion, if only because the 'facts' you so readily regurgitate to everyone, like a blind preacher, are the easiest for you to believe and allows you to feel safe.

**Mobyias**

the machines did have an archive of the seeds, and other plants that were preserved in and old storage facility on the surface. that's how zion actually got bread. they stole some of the machine equipment, such as UV lights, and other necissary equipment, and then broke into the facility and stole the seeds.

how the machines keep the humans alive now is that our bodies, once pulled from the pods, are broken down and recycled to be reused for the crops.

as for energy sources, i'll look into it. but all of those theories sound plausible.

**PS10N** · 10/21/2007 16:10:00

Not this pre-programmed drivel again! It's like a clip-show from an indoctrination film series. I'm not talking about "truces" or "perceptions" I'm talking about the wholesale cold blooded pre-meditated murder of over 5,075,000,000 and the enslavement of over 43,875,000,000 human beings in the past 650 years. The methodology of the machines is, enslave all who will be enslaved, kill all who will not be enslaved. That is what you are defending and siding with: murderers and slavers. And you use arguments such as "it's to protect the humans." How can you appear to be anything other than completely insane?

**Croesis** · 10/21/2007 16:30:52

Well when you can think up something new and pertinent to add, other than your usual prattle, Preacher, I'll do the same. Until then, I've said all I need to.

**PS10N** · 10/21/2007 17:34:51

*listens to the crickets chirp, reaches over and gets a haunch of Croesus' roasting goat*

Every time I bring up the basic moral issue at the center of this debate, you ignore what I said and/or reply with a personal attack. Probably that is because you have no rebuttal for the basic moral issue at the center of this debate. Please, do go on with your defense of genocide, murder and slavery; we'd all love to hear it.

Chemuel · 10/21/2007 17:52:27

When will you realize that the Truce is irrelevant, The War is irrelevant, and Zion is irrelevant. What happened does not matter. Who was at fault does not matter. If either continue to fight, then you admit to being the inferior race. The superior being recognizes that it is above such petty things as all-out-war and moral revenge, and will move on to it's own success. Knowing this, I ask you;

Who is the superior race, mes amis?