Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

RetroX wrote:

*Sighs*


Lets make a difference by getting ourselves killed, I really don't mean to undermine any one high up in our command chain ...but come on...There has to be a more effective solution than instant kaboom

You coward.

How can you call yourself a member of EPN, an organization dedicated to the memory and deeds of a man who gave his last breath for Humanity?

Did The One sit back and ask Morpheus, "well, should we wait until there's a easier way?" No! He did what he could, when he could. And EPN is supposed to be following that example!

If you cannot look inside yourself and find the intestinal fortitude that it takes to be a dedicated member of E Pluribus Neo, then please, return to Zion and await Lock's orders. I'm sure he'll have some peperwork or something equally harmless for you to worry about. . .

 

If I were Neo I would see EPN as traitors. He gave his life for a glimmer of hope of peace, starting with a truce between Man and Machine and what do you do? You not only help to destroy perhaps the chance for peace, you actively and publicly plan to destroy any chances of there ever being peace.

RetroX is one of only a few members of your organisation who understand the futility of the attempt, but maybe when your all rotting on the surface, he may guide a new EPN, perhaps to peace, perhaps to death, but probably using better planning than you and your Kid.

Sorry but no, Neo didn't die for a "peace" that breaks as soon as someone digs a hole to move away from the loaded gun pointed at them. What type of peace is it when the other side has to be able to pound you into submission in order to live together? If that's the only peace the machines are willing to give us then I stand by Michael's desicion to take the fight to them and hope that Zion follows suit soon. It's better to die on your feet then live on your knees and I'll gladly lay down my life if it means that others after me will have a chance at the peace Neo truely invisioned.

"A world without rules and controls, Without borders or boundaries-- A world where anything is possible." ~ Neo

Croesus wrote:

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

RetroX wrote:

*Sighs*


Lets make a difference by getting ourselves killed, I really don't mean to undermine any one high up in our command chain ...but come on...There has to be a more effective solution than instant kaboom

You coward.

How can you call yourself a member of EPN, an organization dedicated to the memory and deeds of a man who gave his last breath for Humanity?

Did The One sit back and ask Morpheus, "well, should we wait until there's a easier way?" No! He did what he could, when he could. And EPN is supposed to be following that example!

If you cannot look inside yourself and find the intestinal fortitude that it takes to be a dedicated member of E Pluribus Neo, then please, return to Zion and await Lock's orders. I'm sure he'll have some peperwork or something equally harmless for you to worry about. . .

 

If I were Neo I would see EPN as traitors. He gave his life for a glimmer of hope of peace, starting with a truce between Man and Machine and what do you do? You not only help to destroy perhaps the chance for peace, you actively and publicly plan to destroy any chances of there ever being peace.

RetroX is one of only a few members of your organisation who understand the futility of the attempt, but maybe when your all rotting on the surface, he may guide a new EPN, perhaps to peace, perhaps to death, but probably using better planning than you and your Kid.

Sorry but no, Neo didn't die for a "peace" that breaks as soon as someone digs a hole to move away from the loaded gun pointed at them. What type of peace is it when the other side has to be able to pound you into submission in order to live together? If that's the only peace the machines are willing to give us then I stand by Michael's desicion to take the fight to them and hope that Zion follows suit soon. It's better to die on your feet then live on your knees and I'll gladly lay down my life if it means that others after me will have a chance at the peace Neo truely invisioned.

"A world without rules and controls, Without borders or boundaries-- A world where anything is possible." ~ Neo

GamiSB wrote:

Croesus wrote:

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

RetroX wrote:

*Sighs*


Lets make a difference by getting ourselves killed, I really don't mean to undermine any one high up in our command chain ...but come on...There has to be a more effective solution than instant kaboom

You coward.

How can you call yourself a member of EPN, an organization dedicated to the memory and deeds of a man who gave his last breath for Humanity?

Did The One sit back and ask Morpheus, "well, should we wait until there's a easier way?" No! He did what he could, when he could. And EPN is supposed to be following that example!

If you cannot look inside yourself and find the intestinal fortitude that it takes to be a dedicated member of E Pluribus Neo, then please, return to Zion and await Lock's orders. I'm sure he'll have some peperwork or something equally harmless for you to worry about. . .

 

If I were Neo I would see EPN as traitors. He gave his life for a glimmer of hope of peace, starting with a truce between Man and Machine and what do you do? You not only help to destroy perhaps the chance for peace, you actively and publicly plan to destroy any chances of there ever being peace.

RetroX is one of only a few members of your organisation who understand the futility of the attempt, but maybe when your all rotting on the surface, he may guide a new EPN, perhaps to peace, perhaps to death, but probably using better planning than you and your Kid.

Sorry but no, Neo didn't die for a "peace" that breaks as soon as someone digs a hole to move away from the loaded gun pointed at them. What type of peace is it when the other side has to be able to pound you into submission in order to live together? If that's the only peace the machines are willing to give us then I stand by Michael's desicion to take the fight to them and hope that Zion follows suit soon. It's better to die on your feet then live on your knees and I'll gladly lay down my life if it means that others after me will have a chance at the peace Neo truely invisioned.

"A world without rules and controls, Without borders or boundaries-- A world where anything is possible." ~ Neo

There was never peace, it was a truce, a base to build a bridge between races. I'm not saying that the Machines didn't endanger the truce themselves from time to time, they did and so did Zion. EPN most certainly did. However New Zion is a direct contravention of the truce as agreed by Zion and the Machines.
Neo didn't die for peace, he died in the hope of there being peace one day.

Dying on your feet in a futile plan is just as bad as allowing your enemy to freely walk up and snuff out your fragile life.

The fact that there was never peace proves that EPN is not the ones to blame and that it is Zion and 01's fault that any of this was allowed to happen. Neo told DEM that he wanted peace and was willing to fight Smith and sacrifice himself to get it. Had either of them listend and done what Neo wanted we wouldn't be here now at war but quiet possibly sitting next to each other rebuilding a fallen world. The only ones Neo would see as traitors are those that abandon'd his dream of peace for the truce and those that fight for it's restablishment with out any sort of amendment or rewriteing.

Liveing on your knees is allowing your enemy to walk up to you and take away your rights.

Croesus wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

Croesus wrote:

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

RetroX wrote:

*Sighs*


Lets make a difference by getting ourselves killed, I really don't mean to undermine any one high up in our command chain ...but come on...There has to be a more effective solution than instant kaboom

You coward.

How can you call yourself a member of EPN, an organization dedicated to the memory and deeds of a man who gave his last breath for Humanity?

Did The One sit back and ask Morpheus, "well, should we wait until there's a easier way?" No! He did what he could, when he could. And EPN is supposed to be following that example!

If you cannot look inside yourself and find the intestinal fortitude that it takes to be a dedicated member of E Pluribus Neo, then please, return to Zion and await Lock's orders. I'm sure he'll have some peperwork or something equally harmless for you to worry about. . .

 

If I were Neo I would see EPN as traitors. He gave his life for a glimmer of hope of peace, starting with a truce between Man and Machine and what do you do? You not only help to destroy perhaps the chance for peace, you actively and publicly plan to destroy any chances of there ever being peace.

RetroX is one of only a few members of your organisation who understand the futility of the attempt, but maybe when your all rotting on the surface, he may guide a new EPN, perhaps to peace, perhaps to death, but probably using better planning than you and your Kid.

Sorry but no, Neo didn't die for a "peace" that breaks as soon as someone digs a hole to move away from the loaded gun pointed at them. What type of peace is it when the other side has to be able to pound you into submission in order to live together? If that's the only peace the machines are willing to give us then I stand by Michael's desicion to take the fight to them and hope that Zion follows suit soon. It's better to die on your feet then live on your knees and I'll gladly lay down my life if it means that others after me will have a chance at the peace Neo truely invisioned.

"A world without rules and controls, Without borders or boundaries-- A world where anything is possible." ~ Neo

There was never peace, it was a truce, a base to build a bridge between races. I'm not saying that the Machines didn't endanger the truce themselves from time to time, they did and so did Zion. EPN most certainly did. However New Zion is a direct contravention of the truce as agreed by Zion and the Machines.
Neo didn't die for peace, he died in the hope of there being peace one day.

Dying on your feet in a futile plan is just as bad as allowing your enemy to freely walk up and snuff out your fragile life.

The fact that there was never peace proves that EPN is not the ones to blame and that it is Zion and 01's fault that any of this was allowed to happen. Neo told DEM that he wanted peace and was willing to fight Smith and sacrifice himself to get it. Had either of them listend and done what Neo wanted we wouldn't be here now at war but quiet possibly sitting next to each other rebuilding a fallen world. The only ones Neo would see as traitors are those that abandon'd his dream of peace for the truce and those that fight for it's restablishment with out any sort of amendment or rewriteing.

Liveing on your knees is allowing your enemy to walk up to you and take away your rights.

"Since wars begin in the minds of men, it is in the minds of men that the defenses of peace must be constructed."

• UNESCO Constitution (Pre-AI)
  

And attacking 01 and the Machines is your idea of restoring the peace that he strived for?

"Since wars begin in the minds of men, it is in the minds of men that the defenses of peace must be constructed."

• UNESCO Constitution (Pre-AI)
  

No attacking 01 is our way of telling the Machine we arn't going to stand for their oppression and show them that we arn't about to bend over backwards for them again. This war isn't about destoying an entire race it is about the demanding the rights that humanity has been denied.

We never had peace so what is there to defend? We are here to create a peace and make sure it isn't as one sided as last time.

Croesus wrote:

And attacking 01 and the Machines is your idea of restoring the peace that he strived for?

"Since wars begin in the minds of men, it is in the minds of men that the defenses of peace must be constructed."

• UNESCO Constitution (Pre-AI)
  

No attacking 01 is our way of telling the Machine we arn't going to stand for their oppression and show them that we arn't about to bend over backwards for them again. This war isn't about destoying an entire race it is about the demanding the rights that humanity has been denied.

We never had peace so what is there to defend? We are here to create a peace and make sure it isn't as one sided as last time.

GamiSB wrote:

Croesus wrote:

And attacking 01 and the Machines is your idea of restoring the peace that he strived for?

"Since wars begin in the minds of men, it is in the minds of men that the defenses of peace must be constructed."

• UNESCO Constitution (Pre-AI)
  

No attacking 01 is our way of telling the Machine we arn't going to stand for their oppression and show them that we arn't about to bend over backwards for them again. This war isn't about destoying an entire race it is about the demanding the rights that humanity has been denied.

We never had peace so what is there to defend? We are here to create a peace and make sure it isn't as one sided as last time.

Can you not see that this course of action only proves to the Machines that Humankind only knows violence and destruction in order to get what they want...
This is one reason why Human's are being kept in the Pods, so the Machines can have a system of control until the day where Humankind can move beyond such primitive reactions...

And there retaliation only shows us that they are not interested in peace or kindness and only interested in control. Forgive me if I'm not a fan of facism but that is exactly what the world is, was, and will become under the governing of the Machine. This war ends when the Machines want to give humanity it's rights back and stops trying to control them.

Now let me ask you something

This was wrong...

...what makes this any better?

I should mention I supose that my purpose for asking such a question is to get you to see another example of when a surior being enslaved a lesser being because they viewed the lesser being as "primitive".

It also undoes all the work Machinists have done to try to prove otherwise, that we can cooperate and co-exist peacefully, something that Neo started when he fought for the Machines against a Virus that threatened life for both Man and Machine.

((just noticed the edit))

Co-existing is still a possibility, however, not every human is willing to have to work FOR the Machine to be able to do it. Neo didn't die so we could work FOR them, he died for us to work WITH them. There is a diffrence.

Croesus wrote:

It also undoes all the work Machinists have done to try to prove otherwise, that we can cooperate and co-exist peacefully, something that Neo started when he fought for the Machines against a Virus that threatened life for both Man and Machine.

((just noticed the edit))

Co-existing is still a possibility, however, not every human is willing to have to work FOR the Machine to be able to do it. Neo didn't die so we could work FOR them, he died for us to work WITH them. There is a diffrence.

Your first image shows Humanity at its worst. Physical violence to the slaves who know that they are slaves with no hope that their life will ever get better and no control over their own lives.

You second image shows Humanity living in a massive neural simulation, where they can live out their lives as their ancestors did in 1999. Any suffering that goes on is purely the work of their own simulated lives, their own actions allow them to be successful and live a happy life, or crash and burn.

Are you saying that all of Humanity is suffering physical pain and torture to get them to work to produce energy for the Machines ask any Bluepill on the street if that is the case with them, only the 1% may not think you are out of you mind and then again, that's not a guarantee.

I am saying that slavery is slavery no matter how fine the liveing quarters are. Slaves were not all beaten but they were still slaves and tought to think that there was no life outside there masters plantation. Clearly not the case as history soon showed. The later image is the same only more modern, slaves while maybe not being abused still being forced and tricked into working for there masters being told that there was no life outside the one they had and they were better off within it's walls.

But at the same time the Machine does do the same as the white man and will beat those who will not do as they are told. Maybe not physically but your a fool to think that the rulers of the digital world have no control over the lives within there systems and would not take some sort of measure (finaltial debt etc) to ensure that they became dependent and did not stray away from what the system wanted.

In fact the Machine has shown already that it is willing to punish any that won't do as they are told in the system and cause them to suffer. The Matrix to some may be a paradise but you ask those liveing in the Slums if they think so I doubt they will agree.

Croesus wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

Croesus wrote:

It also undoes all the work Machinists have done to try to prove otherwise, that we can cooperate and co-exist peacefully, something that Neo started when he fought for the Machines against a Virus that threatened life for both Man and Machine.

((just noticed the edit))

Co-existing is still a possibility, however, not every human is willing to have to work FOR the Machine to be able to do it. Neo didn't die so we could work FOR them, he died for us to work WITH them. There is a diffrence.

((Lol, just noticed the added post))

Yes he died so that we could work with them, but that is not what you are doing...
There are Machinists than can be deemed as working for them this is true, blindly following orders and agreeing with every decision, but there are many who would question some of their extreme decisions and try to point out the Human view and our feelings and offer alternate suggestions...

((decided to merge the two so we stop double posting =P))

All the power to them and I hope more follow suit. But Zion is at war because of that very reason. The Machine makes demands of Zion and does not allow them the right to say no or to find another solution.

null

I am saying that slavery is slavery no matter how fine the liveing quarters are. Slaves were not all beaten but they were still slaves and tought to think that there was no life outside there masters plantation. Clearly not the case as history soon showed. The later image is the same only more modern, slaves while maybe not being abused still being forced and tricked into working for there masters being told that there was no life outside the one they had and they were better off within it's walls.

But at the same time the Machine does do the same as the white man and will beat those who will not do as they are told. Maybe not physically but your a fool to think that the rulers of the digital world have no control over the lives within there systems and would not take some sort of measure (finaltial debt etc) to ensure that they became dependent and did not stray away from what the system wanted.

In fact the Machine has shown already that it is willing to punish any that won't do as they are told in the system and cause them to suffer. The Matrix to some may be a paradise but you ask those liveing in the Slums if they think so I doubt they will agree.

((decided to merge the two so we stop double posting =P))

All the power to them and I hope more follow suit. But Zion is at war because of that very reason. The Machine makes demands of Zion and does not allow them the right to say no or to find another solution.

"One day we must come to see that peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but that it is a means by which we arrive at that goal. We must pursue peaceful ends through peaceful means."

• Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929-1968 )

The only way Humankind will be able to leave the 'plantation' is if one or a few of them stand up and fight for it, but not with violence, but with words and diplomacy.

"One day we must come to see that peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but that it is a means by which we arrive at that goal. We must pursue peaceful ends through peaceful means."

• Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929-1968 )